memorial day parade question

[Brett Hartwig]

what do you guys think about a member of my fire dept who is a jehova's witness who refuses to participate in the memorial day parade, always has. Something about glorifying war or something. Even our city attorney told the chief to leave it alone, don't start that fight. So several others have to be shifted to other stations for the duration of the parade to appease this piece of ****. I hate it as a veteran but can't do anything about it.

 

[Mark K 2]

As an EMS chief, I've had to accomodate people whose beliefs created bumps in the road. I've had Jews who couldn't work Friday evenings or Saturdays and Dutch Reformed who couldn't work on Sundays. Makes enforcing the weekend duty requirement difficult.

 

[Ed Fenwick]

It seems to me that if a guy can't work the hours and days specified for the job, that is sufficient reason not to hire him. Is there something politically incorrect about that?

Ed

 

[EddieS'04]

The one problem I had at my job was. No participation because of beliefs is one thing.

The other was they wouldnt turn down the holiday pay, because of their belief,,hypocrites.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

If the guy is on duty and getting paid he should do what the job requires. If a volunteer (doesn't sound like it) then so be it.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

If the guy is on duty and getting paid he should do what the job requires. If a volunteer (doesn't sound like it) then so be it.



TJR

 

[Jacob Dryer]

When I worked at BBY we had a weekend requirement.. They said there were 6 weekend shifts, and we had to be available for 4 of them or else we weren't eligible for employment. Fri nights, Sat morn, mid, night, and Sun morn, mid. Take your pick if you have church every Sun morn then be available for the other shifts.. It's not unreasonable to have exceptions just as it isn't unreasonable to have personal reasons for not working a specific time, be it religion, personal, social, or other..

 

[EddieS'04]

TJR, what about those with the beliefs, of no participation. But they gladly accept the day off with pay. That is the hypocrites I mean.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Eddie,



I typically don't like playing the "what if" and "what about" game wherein the discussions moves towards related but different examples on a theme, but...



I feel it is quite fine for someone who is a contientious objector, a pacifiist, or someone who simply doesn't belief in or glorifying of war to gladly accept Memorial Day or Independence Day off with pay. I assume those are the people you are talking about. I say that, and I don't think they need to be a hypocrit, because to me, these holidays are about those that fought and died for our country, and the struggle for and celebration of our country, and even I believe any person and every person should be able to recognize those themes...which, in my opinion, aren't glorifying war.



It is for that same reason that I don't feel that someone can claim discrimination if their employer requires them to work a Memorial Day parade, regardless the capacity of that work. It's not about war...it's about sacrifice.



Now, if there are those that take those holidays off with pay, dont' celebrate them, and disagree with all that they stand for, then are they hypocrits? I don't know. I guess a little...but what other choice do people have? Most can't work a day that the office is closed, or give the money back to their payroll dept. Maybe they should take that days pay and donate it to a world peace organization. That wouldn't be hypocritical...right?



TJR

 

[EddieS'04]

TJR,



Maybe I should have been more specific. Where I worked. We had those that objected to many different holidays. Religion or contientious objectors. They were more than willing to take the day off with the pay. Some of us asked, exactly what you said. will you donate the $$. The answer was always no. Odd thing is the union and the company wanted to work around. Alowing some in certain religions to exchange the normal holiday for one that fit them. They said, no. We want to be off on the contracted holidays..go figure.

Hypocritical who realy knows. It was fishy though. Especialy every year, when you had to listen to thier objections, to the holiday....I was there 36yrs...

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Eddie,



I hear you. That's why many progressive companies have moved to personal choice and floating holidays.



The way I look at it, is if some coworker wants to pi$$ in my ear about having to take off a paid holiday because somehow it offends them in some way then I have the right to exercise my free speech and suggest that maybe they should quit, become self-employed and take whatever days off they want, whenever they want. Until then, maybe they should take off the days that "the boss" decides, and in the meantime shut up.



TJR

 

[henry tanner]

i`m in the NAVY, and i don`t agree but this is what this country was built on have people of different beleifs. you can`t force them. that`s my two cents.

:banghead::fire::smack:

 

[Doctor CAD]

All the lives and sacrifices that are celebrated on Memorial Day are so that the guy can say and do as he pleases.



Thank You Vets!!!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Hdt, doctorcad,



Actually, if its the guy's job, then yes, his employer can "force him."



Do you think the cop on the beat can decide not to work the parade because he objects to the holiday? Maybe he can, and maybe he can object, but personally, I'd fight to MY dying breath to give any company or government organization for that matter to fire someone that doesn't perform their required duties.



Is suspect the fire company and associated unions don't want the publicity of the fight. Unfortunately doing what is right often falls by the wayside in favor of doing what's easy.



Again, doing one's job at a function or event doesn't mean that you are celebrating the function or event. Some people just want a "cause"...to make them feel important.



TJR

 

[Bill V]

freeport, can you clarify how exactly the fireman participate in your local parade? Also, if he's not participating in the parade, what does this guy do during the time of the parade?



It would seem that if the firefighters are paid during their time in the parade, and if he's refusing to participate, then that means he can be working back at the station instead--in which case, I don't see how it would force anyone else to have to shift to other stations. Regardless of how many firefighters you were supposed to have at the station during the parade, you now have one more--if anything, it would seem to mean that one less person would need to shift at that time than if he were at the parade instead.



On the other hand, if the firefighters are doing this as a volunteer effort, effectively on their own time, and therefore this firefighter is going home rather than to the parade, it still doesn't affect the amount of manpower at the fire station, and therefore wouldn't seem to force anyone to need to be shifted.



Can you help me understand what I'm missing?

 

[Brett Hartwig]

we have an officer at each of the 3 stations with a battalion chief downtown. Since he refused to participate, the BC had to move to a station to cover the parade. I believe he was supposed to be studying or doing paperwork while we were at the parade. Not sure what he actually did, I'm pretty sure nobody talked to him the entire 24 hours.

 

[Bill V]

Since he refused to participate, the BC had to move to a station to cover the parade.

I'm not getting it, because to me it sounds like the exact opposite would be true.



If this person had gone to participate in the parade, then it would seem that his station would have been down a man, and would therefore have needed someone to come backfill for him. But because he refused to go to the parade, he was insteaddoing paperwork--presumably at the station, in which case, no backfill would have been necessary. And even if the paperwork wasn't being done at the station--one backfill person would then have been needed, the exact same as if this guy had gone to the parade. Regardless of the situation, I don't see how any additional backfill was needed because of this guy's refusal to participate.



The reason I'm asking--Without understanding where the flaw in my reasoning is with regard to the supposed need for a backfill for this guy, it almost feels to me like the claimed need to shift stations was a made up rationalization to try to justify being upset that this guy didn't want to go to a parade. Therefore, I'm hoping you can show why a backfill would be needed, as I'm wanting to believe that this isn't the case.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Freeport, Bill,



Backfill, smackfill.



The way I see it is the firefighter had a work assignment and he refused it. The only grounds that an employee should be able to refuse a work assignment is if the assignment puts the employee at risk; breaks a law; etc.



There are many people who don't believe in organized religion. Does that mean that a firefighter having those beliefs can object, and let a church burn to the ground?



Of course not.



Fire the ahole due to insubordination and move on...



TJR