More Bad News for Ford
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Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
That's OK. Chrysler sold an entire assembly line to the Russians.
Seem the cheap overseas labor is gonna kick us real hard very soon.
Seem the cheap overseas labor is gonna kick us real hard very soon.
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Dodge will be selling Chinese-made Chery's here next year.
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Hey- that bad-ass looking Tiggo has everything that the explorer has. I'll bet it gets 40 MPG too!
Michael Martin 3
Active Member
tom prudhomme
Active Member
What would compel a person to purchase a vehicle made by workers losing their job? What's the incentive to do quality work? Ford sales down convinces me people are spending smarter.
Jack Wiley
Member
The problem is not completely the fault of the rank and file assembly worker in terms of poor sales. scootch, the thing that compells people in the face of losing their jobs to continue working hard is pride, dedication and character. In our country and culture today: pride, character, discipline, religious faith (belief in God) hard work and love of education-learning are not taught in schools (education is a disaster) and most times not taught at home with a two parent family.
The union and workers share responsibility for the decline in the US auto industry becasue they made demands for ever greater benefits not tied to their performance, production and quality standards.
The auto executives are also to blame for their industries decline for conceeding to the unions on their labor contract demands but also for having a flawed business model. The executives at all the remaining domestic auto makers are very insular with a do no wrong attitude. In the world market place better, higher quality, fairly priced goods and services will always win out. This formula for success has been around for a long time, historically both in Western and Eastern cultures. You are correct people are smart enough to recognize the cost and qualitative differences between products, although subjective to a degree it is a factor that governs the market. Until the US auto makers, GM & Ford, recognize market forces and actually make changes they will either go out of business or be acquired by other more successful auto companies. As an example, Chrysler was acquired by Diamler-Benz and integrating different corporate cultures has been difficult. As a result Chrysler is still struggling as a business and financially. Merging different business cultures is not a gaurantee for success. Should Toyota buy GM it would not gaurantee the success of GM but may in fact cause the decline of Toyota and force GM as we know it out of business due to the stark business culture differences. If you recall many of the joint ventures by GM, Ford, Chrysler with foreign auto makers 10-15 years ago have been terminated due to poor corporate culture clashes. Just my thought on the subject.
Semper fidelis
The union and workers share responsibility for the decline in the US auto industry becasue they made demands for ever greater benefits not tied to their performance, production and quality standards.
The auto executives are also to blame for their industries decline for conceeding to the unions on their labor contract demands but also for having a flawed business model. The executives at all the remaining domestic auto makers are very insular with a do no wrong attitude. In the world market place better, higher quality, fairly priced goods and services will always win out. This formula for success has been around for a long time, historically both in Western and Eastern cultures. You are correct people are smart enough to recognize the cost and qualitative differences between products, although subjective to a degree it is a factor that governs the market. Until the US auto makers, GM & Ford, recognize market forces and actually make changes they will either go out of business or be acquired by other more successful auto companies. As an example, Chrysler was acquired by Diamler-Benz and integrating different corporate cultures has been difficult. As a result Chrysler is still struggling as a business and financially. Merging different business cultures is not a gaurantee for success. Should Toyota buy GM it would not gaurantee the success of GM but may in fact cause the decline of Toyota and force GM as we know it out of business due to the stark business culture differences. If you recall many of the joint ventures by GM, Ford, Chrysler with foreign auto makers 10-15 years ago have been terminated due to poor corporate culture clashes. Just my thought on the subject.
Semper fidelis
I am surprised "R" hasn't replied to this. :blink:
Can you blame the union worker for designing a weak transmission? Can you blame the union worker for cheap fabric on the seats? Can you blame the union worker for cheap paint? Can you blame the union worker for scum bag dealers?
It is easy to put the blame on the union workers.
Can you blame the union worker because Ford all but abandoned cars? Ford let the best selling car spot go to Toyota and continued to sell a car that did not sell that well. Can you blame the union worker for that?
As I said, it is easy to put the blame on the union workers.
GM and Toyota are still in bed together. They own a plant in California that they build the Pontiac Vibe in that is nothing more than a Toyota Matrix.
Ford brought Mazda out of bankruptcy. Mazda is now producing some of the nicest looking cars on the road. If it werent for Ford, Mazda would be gone.
Tom
Q, who builds the Mustang? Who builds the Mazda Tribute? Who builds the Mazda B series trucks?
Just wondering if you know.
Another question for you...It is not a trick question or anything...
Who owns controlling intrest in Mazda?
Just wondering if you know of if you just like acting like a jerk.
Tom
p.s. God loves you, but everyone else thinks you are a @$$hole!!!
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tom prudhomme
Active Member
Could not disagree with you more concerning the first sentence. I loved my ST, but the sled was pretty much worn out at 29,000 miles. Built with pride, dedication & character? I'd rather they build it with quality parts like my current stable of Japanese built vehicles & motorcycle.
Totally agree with your second sentence. This country is in a sad state. God have mercy on us for having to listen to religious Christmas songs at Christmas affairs...
Can you blame the "lack of quality parts" on the union workforce or the non-union salary employees?
Tom
tom prudhomme
Active Member
Certainly, if ford didn't have to pay unskilled workers such ridiculous wages, ford could've afforded higher quality parts. So yea, the union & its laborers should shoulder a chunk of the blame.
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
I don't blame union workers for Ford's problems. I blame Ford's management for all of the problems:
1. Union pay: Managers/CEOs make obscene amounts of money, so why shouldn't union workers make decent wages?
2. Product mix/designs/quality: Union workers have little say in any of this. Ford management is totally responsible for design, materials selection, assembly methods, etc.
3. Treatment of workers: I have worked for several Tier I automotive parts suppliers. The companies who get unionized deserve to be unionized. The companies who have decent management hardly ever get unionized.
4. Now, instead of fixing the problems and working toward better, long-term solutions, management is shutting down plants and outsourcing work to second and third-world countries where people will work with terrible treatment for nearly nothing, and there are no environmental laws to comply with.
1. Union pay: Managers/CEOs make obscene amounts of money, so why shouldn't union workers make decent wages?
2. Product mix/designs/quality: Union workers have little say in any of this. Ford management is totally responsible for design, materials selection, assembly methods, etc.
3. Treatment of workers: I have worked for several Tier I automotive parts suppliers. The companies who get unionized deserve to be unionized. The companies who have decent management hardly ever get unionized.
4. Now, instead of fixing the problems and working toward better, long-term solutions, management is shutting down plants and outsourcing work to second and third-world countries where people will work with terrible treatment for nearly nothing, and there are no environmental laws to comply with.
Q,
Can you please answer my questions?
Tom
Can you please answer my questions?
Tom
Nicholas DeMarco 2
Active Member
damn i guess buyin my st didn't help
Q, your 1000% right unions screw over the automotive industry. unions demand a lot of money for lil work. they get like 5 breaks in 7 hours. they r better off firering everyone and having a full automated system just to survive
Q, your 1000% right unions screw over the automotive industry. unions demand a lot of money for lil work. they get like 5 breaks in 7 hours. they r better off firering everyone and having a full automated system just to survive
blksn8k
Well-Known Member
There's a lot of truth to that statement. But there are many more factors that are contributing to the decline of the US auto industry. How about government subsidized foreign competition? How about foreign government manipulation of currency rates? US company executives have no doubt contributed to their own demise but there are also some things that they have been forced to do just to stay competitive in a "global" economy. Funny thing is, the US seems to be one of the few countries that allows the "global" economy to destroy its infrastructure. Just look at the electronics industry. We play too nice for our own good. Since I don't particularly enjoy contributing to the inevitable I'll continue buying my American junk. Yeah, I realize that's "old school" thinking but it helps me sleep at night.
Jack Wiley
Member
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Jack Wiley
Member
I always like to throw fuel on the fire. The S/T is one of several vehicles I own including German, Italian, 1960 & 1970 American muscle and bikes Triumph, Victory.
Opinions vary and are welcome.
As Frank Bullitt said "Del we've got to create a smoke screen for Chalmer's"
Opinions vary and are welcome.
As Frank Bullitt said "Del we've got to create a smoke screen for Chalmer's"
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
Thing is, from about 1945 to 1980 their business model worked very well because there wasn't much competition and they were making so much money that it kind of covered up the inefficiencies. Same with the steel industry where I live. Problem now is that most of the local governments still act like there is a bottomless pit of money to draw from, and there isn't.
I dunno, every vehicle I've owned in the last 20 years held up a ton better than any one me or my family owned in the previous 20 (I'm old but not that old). My dad always took decent if not exceptional care of his cars, but by about 4 years and 60k they were shot. Engines rattled and smoked, rust holes the size of your fist. Now I've run several Ford vehicles for 10 years or more, put over 130k on two of them with no unexpected problems and they still looked and ran great.
