More Stars Than Grains Of Sand On Earth (Repost)

[swshawaii]

Oops, Sorry ! LINK BELOW

 

[swshawaii]

Wanted to repost this CNN clip from 7/03 for those that missed it. Comments welcome.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yep...interesting notion, but seemingly not much of a debate.





Given:



a. Stars in sky = infinite

b. Grains of sand on Earth = finite

c. infinite > finite



Conclusion:



Stars in sky > grains of sand on Earth



(by the transitive property, aka chain rule)



Of course, the debate is around the "givens" above, I guess. Some don't concede a., and even a few others don't concede b. I think c. is pretty safe.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

Anyone watch the series "Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking"?



IMO, that show was absoultly amazing.





Tom

 

[Bud Williams]

Anyone watch the series "Into the Universe with Stephen Hawking"?

Seen it a couple of times, I don't like how his computer voice sounds.

but other than that annoyance, pretty interesting show.

The only problem is, I feel sooo small when he talks about the vastness of the universe...

 

[Mike Dziubina]

at my undergraduate graduation 3 weeks ago, our speaker was Bill Nye the science guy. He spoke much about the "more stars than grains of sand on earth" topic. it was awesome.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Seen it a couple of times, I don't like how his computer voice sounds.

You are kidding...



To have the man be able to talk is simply wonderful. It will be a sad day when Stephen Hawking dies.



Personally, I find his voice captivating. I have listened to some of his books and it was in his voice. Absolutly loved it.





Tom

 

[Kevin Lang]

Wait, why would you use an audiobook??



How do you know it was his voice? He doesn't have a voice, he has a deviant of Microsoft Mike...the Narrator program built into any recent version of windows (Windows Key + U to play with it) allows anyone to basically impersonate him.



(FTR, I don't like listening to M$ mike either)



lol TJR, that's not the chain rule of "teh" calculus, I protest.



TJR, how do you define a grain of sand? If I take a "Grain" of sand and split it in half, do not I then have two grains of sand? By that, sand is arguably infinite on earth.



I mention this because you can't really put a size cap on sand grains, right? Some grains are larger than others...

 

[Tom Schindler]

The audiobooks cover said it was "read" by Stephen Hawking.

I mention this because you can't really put a size cap on sand grains, right? Some grains are larger than others...

KL, If it takes a man 2 hours to dig a hole that is 4' x 4' x 4', how long does it take that same man to dig a half hole?





Tom

 

[gary s]

"If it takes a man 2 hours to dig a hole that is 4' x 4' x 4', how long does it take that same man to dig a half hole?"



if they are digging that hole in new york, it would take 5 men & 5 days to dig the same hole. :bwahaha:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

KL,



I submit that at any given point in time, the grains of sand on the earth are finite. That's my submission. I have yeat to hear an argument that makes me think otherwise.





Caymen,



To answer your question... I have a question. Which "half a hole" is he digging? The top half, or the BOTTOM half?



TJR

 

[Bill V]

TJR, here's another point on the discussion...



Even if one were to grant that the universe is infinite (which, as you've already indicated, many don't), that doesn't mean that the number of stars is infinite. It could be possible to have a finite number of stars contained in an infinite universe...

 

[Bill V]

Asked if he believed the huge scale of the universe meant there was intelligent life out there somewhere, he told the paper: "Seventy thousand million million million is a big number ... it's inevitable."

If there isn't any intelligent life on this planet, what would make them think there's any anyplace else?

 

[Bud Williams]

I like Carl Sagan, "Billions and Billions"

 

[Richard L]

Since both stars and grains of sand are infinite in number, And the quantity of each changes from moment to moment, how can anyone prove or disprove which there are more of???



...Rich

 

[Mike Dziubina]

Since both stars and grains of sand are infinite in number, And the quantity of each changes from moment to moment, how can anyone prove or disprove which there are more of???



...Rich

Sand is finite, not infinite. anything created of mass on this earth is finite. Simple laws of science. Mass cannot be created nor destroyed.



stars are essentially infinite because we know of no limit to space, or stars for that matter. could they be finite? sure, but we do not know. even if they are, my money is still on the stars. we do know sand is finite.

 

[Kevin Lang]

Mass cannot be created nor destroyed.

Sand is semantically infinite. The quoted statement, if limiting sand, also limits stars.



New stars can be formed from nebulae, but new sand can also be formed from meteorites falling to Earth.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

What Mike said.



Sand on Earth, at a snapshot point in time, is clearly finite. That has to be the case. It simply has to be. Anything that can be contained in a finite space (the earth) has to be finite in mass. Has to be.



However, those things that can be within infinite space CAN be infinite. Therefore stars can be infinite in number. Doesn't mean they are (how to prove?), but it surely means they CAN be.



TJR

 

[Richard L]

I agree that sand is infinite and is not all created on earth. Much debris arrives on earth from space in the form of micro-meteors. Also, rocks break down and turn to finer and finer particles which can be categorized as sand.



So as long as the earch can produce sand or collect sand from space, it is infinite



...Rich

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Richard L,



Right, correct, infinite over time, but finite at a given point in time. Has to be. If one could freeze time and count all the grains of sand in the ocean floor, the beaches, the blowing around in the air, etc, there would be a finite # of grains. A moment later, there might be more, or less, but at that later frozen moment there would still be a finite number.



The earth and the human race can constantly produce people, for example, but the population of earth is finite...at a given point in time.



TJR