My Substage Options: ARRRRHHHGGG!!!

Shop deals on ebay
shop deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Ford SportTrac Forum

Help Support Ford SportTrac Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
C

Carey Frennier

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
2,857
Reaction score
1
Location
Plattsburgh, NY
What: I'm thinking about what to do with my substage. Before I spend the money on enclosure materials and installation, I'm trying to decide if I should upgrade or not. I'm not doing this twice!



Where: This is all going to be mounted behind the rear seats of a gen 2 Adrenalin. I'm trying not to put anythnig under the seats, not even the front seats. This is what makes option #1 so difficult. I don't think it can be done with the amps in the picture. There is just (within millimeters) enough room for the subs and enclosure with req air space.



Here are the three setups:



Sub stage #1:

JBL GTO 1202D (two of them)

JBL CS300.1 Sub Amp

Sealed enclosure to factory req specs

Pros: Have everything already

Cons: It's an extremely tight fit, it will not look as good as 2 or 3 once installed.



Sub stage #2:

JL Audio 13TW5-3 (One of them)

JBL CS300.1 Sub Amp

Sealed enclosure to factory req specs

Pros: Have the amp already so I just need to buy the driver, It would be a very clean install and I should have room on the amp rack to upgrade it in the future. The amps will look uniform displayed together.

Cons: It's possible that it won't sound as good as the two 12s because there will be a lack of cone area.





Sub stage #3:

JL Audio 13TW5-3 (One of them)

JL Audio 500.1 Sub Amp

Sealed enclosure to factory req specs

Pros: It would be a very clean install and I would be done with the substage for good, Plenty of power to make this 13.5 driver sound as good as the two 12s on 300.1. The install would look perfect and not as stuffed into the area. Much cleaner install. Maybe even free up some space for storage.

Cons: Price is a factor here. This is a huge upgrade. My JBL frontstage amp would look kind of weird next to an amp that doesn't match it imo.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Personally I think JL is over priced and over rated so I'd stay with option 1, but mostly on my feelings for JL and not on any of the other factors.
 
Well I would agree with you. That's why I always buy JL stuff on sale or used. I've had a lot of different brands and JL has been the best I've ever owned. Witha 500.1 on the 13TW5, it actually out performs their other regular 13inch drivers. It's really something else. Not many people have them and that's what I'm looking for. They've dropped in price significantly. From $550 to $349 per driver. Used drivers run in the high $200 range.



I either spend a ton of money fiberglassing the back of my enclosure and using more MDF material to house the (2) 12" JBL subs or I spend it on the 13TW5 and make the install easier and cheaper.



The other advantage to the 13TW5 is that eventually I can add a second one in a seperate enclosure because they don't have much in the way of airspace reqs.
 
If i were you i would go with #3



You are right, the cons would be the price, but a buddy of mine just put one of these 13TW5's in his Avalanche (bigger cab then the trac) in a sealed enclosure and let me tell you, it sounds unreal. the only reason i didn't go that route when i was building my set-up was because of the price. the cheapest i could find at the time was $600 for the sub and $400 for the amp. So i picked up a pair of shallow mount kickers for $280....



with the prices down now, i would get just the one TW and it would be worth the clean, leave room and sound awesome. if i had to build from scrath again today, that is exactly what i would do...just my two cents....
 
I'm bout to put some RE shallow mount subs in the back of my dually. Supposedly it blows JL out of the water and is cheaper. Once they are in I'll post pics and a review.
 
Post pics and model numbers! I've heard the 13TW5 before and it's amazing. I'm hard pressed to believe there is a similar sub that's as good. However, RE has a flawless reputation.
 
Its the RE Audio SL. I've heard the JL TW before. It is good but definitely expensive. I've asked my buddy for recommendations since he does competition setups and what not. He suggested the RE sub over the JL. I will say though I had my mind set on the JL for the dually but the price turned me away.
 
13TW5 DRIVER SPECIFICATIONS

13TW5-3



Free Air Resonance (Fs): 27.52 Hz

Electrical Q (Qes): 0.511

Mechanical Q (Qms): 11.230

Total Speaker Q (Qts): 0.489

Equivalent Compliance (Vas): 2.10 cu. ft. / 59.47 liters

One-Way, Linear Excursion (Xmax)*: 0.383 in. / 9.7 mm

Reference Efficiency (no): 0.233%

Efficiency (1W/1m)**: 85.87 dB SPL

Effective Piston Area (Sd): 98.256 sq. in. / 0.0634 sq. m.

DC Resistance (Re): 2.793 ohm

Nominal Impedance (Znom): 3 ohm

Thermal Power Handling (Pt): 600W

Driver Displacement: 0.052 cu. ft. / 1.47 liters

Net Weight: 18.6 lbs. / 8.4 kg





SL SERIES Closest to TW5



12"

Mounting Depth - 3.5"

Mounting Hole Diameter - 11"

Overall Diameter - 13"

Bolt Hole Circle - 11.75"

Motor Width - 4"

Motor Depth - 0.12"

Basket Depth - 3.5"

Displacement - 0.10 cu. ft.

Weight - 15.5 lbs

Electrical Q Value -Qes: 0.56

Mechanical Q Value -Qms: 3.69

Total Speaker Q Value -Qts: 0.48

Free Air Resonance -Fs: 32.0 Hz

Equivalent Compliance -Vas: 51 liters

One-Way, Linear Excursion -Xmax: 16 mm

Efficiency -SPL 1W/1m: 86.8 dB SPL

Effective Piston Area -Sd: 470 cm^2

DC Resistance -Re: 3.5 ohm

Nominal Impedance -Znom: Dual 4 ohm

Thermal Power Handling -Pe: 350 W

Force Factor -Bl: 19.53





At just a quick glance I can tell that the TW5 is better. Especially for my application.



Honestly, my JBL 1202Ds have specs as good or better than the RE SLs.
 
13TW5 is optimum in only 0.80 cu.ft.

RE SL 12" optimum is 0.74 cu.ft.



So the TW5 is 13.5", handles more power, mounts in a shallower space and requires only .04 more airspace than the RE 12" SL.



The JL 12TW5 only needs .63 cu.ft.



That's a pretty awesome sub imo.



Cost is another story though lol.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ya know what I just thought of...Maybe I can re-use one of my enclosures for the TW5!



All I'd have to do is shave off an inch around the sides and open up my mounting hole a little bit and re-assemble the box. I don't see why that wouldn't work!
 
The RE is more efficient though, and it's widely known that RE under rates the power handling, as do most smaller audio companies. I've been running 500 watts to my Ascendant Audio Assassin for years now which is only rated for 250 or 300.. The JL should in theory hit a little deeper, but that's totally depends on the box you put them in too. You really can't compare subs spec for spec because the installation is really what makes the difference.
 
The efficiency difference between the two units is pretty insignificant until you compair the extra size of the TW5 and it's 1" shallower mounting depth and power handling. Overall, the TW5 is better. Just like RE, JL audio under rates their equipment. Especially their amps. This is well known in the aftermarket car audio scene.



I'm by no means "sold" on the TW5. I just can't find anything better for MY needs. I've looked at everything for about a year and the TW5 still just can't be beat. I've been waiting forever to find good pricing on the sub.



You're right though. The install is extremely important. Just as important is the component selection.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
1db when you are talking about giving it 500 watts will be significant. But I think a good install will make more a difference than the efficacy.



I see the shallower mounting depth as a negative. They had to give something up, and I'm sure part of that is in it's travel. Look at the xmax, 6mm more on the RE.



So the JL has more surface area, but the RE has more travel.



Bottom line on equipment of this level is install, price, what you want/like. I have a personal thing against JL (as I already stated) so I'm bias. But don't rule out the RE because it doesn't have as good of specs, because in reality it does.
 
See, for me the limited excersion in the TW5 is yet another advantage because I don'thave the room behind the seat for much more.



Like you said, the install is super important. I'm basing my opinion of these two products on MY needs. I don't want a large mounting depth, cone excersion or price. A discounted TW5 fits my build perfectly.



When I started shopping around I first looked at my needs. After that I shopped around for products that met my needs. The last step for me was forming a realistic budget based on my needs. From there I went into price shopping mode.
 
Sounds like you already decided that you want the JL. The excursion difference isn't enough to change if it's going to hit the seat or not. Your talking about a 6mm difference.



So go big or go home, do the JL with JL amps :cool:
 
It's at the installer right now and they are test fitting and crunching numbers for #1 :)



They will need to build another enclosure that fits both subs and both amps. There is tons of room behind the insulation padding that can be pushed around to fit everything.
 
Actually the 13.5" TW5 sub with 500.1 will outperform my two 12" on 300.1. The only two advantages for #1 is that I have the equipment already and I'll have superior cone area. So for more performance I just need to upgrade the amp.



I really hope there is a way to fit them in but I won't cry my self to sleep if I have to buy a 13TW5 :p
 

Latest posts

Top