NASA Scientists Claims to have Found Alien Life

[Richard L]

KL,

I don't recall seeing Stargate, but I don't think Hollywood Sci-Fi movies are either factual or even very thought provoking.



I have never studied Scientology nor considered it a religion? I was always under the impression that they believe that they are all spirits trapped on earth in human bodies?? And everthing comes from their inner-self. I think they may actually believe in a supreme being as God, but don't much more than that. I never heard that they believed that God is a space alien...but I think they may beleive they are? I know that Tom Cruise is a member of the Church of Scientology...and perhaps that may be what made him into a bit of a wacko...lol



I think I understand your answer in as much as God's return to earth would make all faith based religions obsolete because we would know God existed. So if God left earth, would we not begin to tell others what he said, and try to teach all future generations about God and we would be starting new Religions all over again...hmmm an interesting concept.



...Rich

 

[Bud Williams]

Scotty, beam me up right now!:bwahaha:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Eddie,



You twisted my words. I never said the word "faith" makes me cringe. What I said, or should I say, what I meant to say, is that when people use their "faith", or their "having faith" as rationale and reason for closing their mind, for stopping the search for answers, or as a reason to avoid the "tough questions" that their religious doctrine/dogma has created, then I cringe.



I don't cringe over faith alone. Faith is a good thing. Faith that opens one's heart, a great thing. Faith that closes one's mind...that makes me cringe.



P.S. I never said you were a small thinker. Not in this thread...not in any others I can remember. If I said that in another thread, or implied it, then I apologize.



TJR

 

[Kevin Lang]

I don't recall seeing Stargate, but I don't think Hollywood Sci-Fi movies are either factual or even very thought provoking.

Sadly, that's a general truth about Hollywood. Though I don't see how any movie about an alien coming to Earth and being revealed to be what we construed as God could be a factual movie as that event hasn't happened yet.



I wouldn't call the movie thought-provoking, I mentioned it to say that your scenario has been debated long enough that even mainstream Hollywood has cashed in on it.



On Scientology, L Ron Hubbard claims that the scientologist interpretation of the soul, the "thetan" has lived in civilizations on other planets (It is reincarnated, he claims). Also, there's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu">Xenu.</a>

Xenu (pronounced /&#712;zi&#720;nu&#720;/[1][2][3] ZEE-noo), also spelled Xemu, was, according to the founder of Scientology and science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions[4][5] of his people to Earth in a DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Official Scientology dogma holds that the essences of these many people remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.[

This implanted what Hubbard termed "various misleading data"' (collectively termed the R6 implant) into the memories of the hapless thetans, "which has to do with God, the Devil, space opera, et cetera". This included all world religions, with Hubbard specifically attributing Roman Catholicism and the image of the Crucifixion to the influence of Xenu.

...in short, Scientology believes that all the spirits of the dead subjects of an advanced alien race haunt humans and make us believe in "false" religions as so that we don't know the true nature of the advanced alien "god" who is pulling the galactic strings.



If you become a true Scientologist, you can overcome the lies of these haunting spirits, and realize the "truth" of a great alien being the true "god".



(Yes, I'm LMAO too, but it does seem very similar to your premise.)

:bwahaha:

(For the record, I don't believe any of this crock)

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Richard L,



Let's consider your question for a moment.



Let's say that some advanced alien race came down in their spaceship tomorrow. Let's say they were humanoid, in that they had DNA, carbon-based, and yet were otherwise QUITE alien, and quite different than us. Let's say they were very technologically advanced, and a race that is billions of years old.



Lets further conjecture that these aliens were "checking up" on us, after a 200 million year jaunt through the universe. Let's say upon their last visit to our "new" planet they recognized just the right astrological and global conditions for advanced life...one day, and they in fact "seeded" our world with some microbes...the basic building blocks of life.



Their return, as I said, was to "check up" on the seeds they planted.



These aliens are intersteller "Johnny Appleseeds", so to speak. These aliens show up, check on their garden, and come to our world with evidence that all life that has grown has spawned from the seeds they placed here ions ago.



Okay, that's the scenario.



Now, HOW EXACTLY does that change modern religious beliefs?



Well, lets just list a few:



1) It totally blows a hole in Genesis, the aspects of creation dealing with God creating the plants, and the animals, and Adam and Eve. At best, that story becomes a simile. But I submit that it essentially negates all the creation aspects of Genesis....that part of Genesis becomes a pure work of fiction.



2) Likewise, the biblical teaching that God is both Creator and God is Omipotent, and all that transpires is due to God's will and by the power and grace of God is simply no longer true. I say that because God will have been shown as "not" the creator. In the above story, Omnipotent God is not also the creator. The creator is simply just some aliens dropping some seeds. They moved on. They didn't stick around and run things, pulling invisible strings, making floods happen, or even knowing what happens on our planet. They started things, but then they moved on. That's very different than what most think of when they think of an all powerful, all knowing, all controlling God.



3) The BIG UNKNOWN, the GREAT UNKNOWN that most religions tend to deal with, that being the question of "life after death", is still a big mystery in the scenario described. Again, the scenario tends to shed light on "HOW DID WE GET HERE?", but it doesn't answer the questions: "WHY ARE WE HERE?", and "WHAT'S NEXT AFTER THIS?"



The way I see it is that much of what many religions do is to try "too neatly" to bundle up so many of life's very tough, possibly unanswerable questions into not only simple answers, but actually the same simple answer.



Examples:



Q1. How did we get here? Answer: God



Q2: Why are we here? Answer: To serve God



Q3: Why should we (be good, help one another, love one another, believe in God, etc...)? Answer: Because God says so and to please God.



Q4: What happens after we die? Answer: We meet God and those that died before if we do #3 right.



Some would say that religion came about because man didn't feel comfortable with the answer "I don't know!" to some of these rather fundamental questions.



Anyway, that's something to consider. To me, if we find evidence that shakes the foundation of the beliefs of "How did we get here?", then I suspect the religious answers to the other questions might start to shake like a house of cards.



TJR

 

[Kevin Lang]

Lets further conjecture that these aliens were "checking up" on us, after a 200 million year jaunt through the universe. Let's say upon their last visit to our "new" planet they recognized just the right astrological and global conditions for advanced life...one day, and they in fact "seeded" our world with some microbes...the basic building blocks of life.

Bleh, that conjecture reminded me of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. How that movie failed on all levels. Conflict? Who wants that? Drama? Likewise. We want to preach environmentalism, so let's "conceal" it in an "allegorical" movie. :throwup:



Anyhow, for TJR's scenario I see religions adapting the alien "Jonny Appleseeds" into their dogma. The aliens seeded life as agents of God, just as how many Christians today say that the Big Bang was just how God went about creating the universe, or the aforementioned "God's time isn't man's time".



After all, The Lord works in Strange and Mysterious Ways.

 

[H D]

The truth of the matter is that Wikipedia is a fine source for most things. It has been proven more accurate on average than encyclopedias. Those that seem to dismiss it are more often than not those that don't agree with what it says (the high-tech equivalent of someone saying "nah-nah-nah, I'm not listening").

Oh, come on, I use Wikipedia all the time. I was just poking at the fact that professors will give you an automatic F if you quote Wikipedia.

Clearly, you seem to have had your head a little in the sand. You stated that the Bible doesn't establish a 6,000 year Earth, yet there are countless that claim it does.



Try to sweep under the rug that "Young Earthers" exist, and are large in numbers if you wish, but that's simply NOT the case.

I'm not ignoring them. I'm just saying that I believe they're wrong. Large portions of the U.S. population are wrong pretty often. I'm not going to place blame anywhere, but many go with what they are told rather than searching out answers themselves. "The Truth is Out There"



As for the silly question about God being an alien...I will ignore that. This question is coming from the same guy that told me my SUV vs Scion wreck was an useless scenario.:bwahaha:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Hugh,



Great discussion between you and I.



Don't flip the bozo switch on people so easily. I don't remember anyone ever saying the SUV vs Scion was a useless discussion.



Also, as an aside. I attended a talk once given by the founder of Wikipedia. This was about two years ago. Of course, he is biased, but he indicated that many educators are opening up to their students use of Wikipedia, especially as a "starting point" for finding both the "Reader's Digest" version of information on some subject AND as a roadmap for finding additional sources on said topic.



I find Wikipedia an invaluable resource in that capacity.



TJR

 

[H D]

Not the discussion, just the scenario I posed. Shouldn't have brought it up, though. It's irrelevant.



I use Wikipedia in just that manner all the time. Usually, I skip right over everything in the Wiki entry and go straight down to the sources. Then, I pull those sources and go over them and go through their sources.



What does Wikipedia say about God being an alien? Gotta go, preparing the property for our wedding reception; so much to do, so little time. I hope somebody can figure out the answer to all of life's deepest questions while I'm out.

 

[Les]

 

[EddieS'04]

TJR,,Were' cool.



Mis-understandings through printed text.:supercool:



Maybe someday our board discussions, can be video conferencing. Nonthing like actual speach and body language...:supercool:

 

[Richard L]

TJR,

It totally blows a hole in Genesis, the aspects of creation dealing with God creating the plants, and the animals, and Adam and Eve. At best, that story becomes a simile. But I submit that it essentially negates all the creation aspects of Genesis....that part of Genesis becomes a pure work of fiction.

That may be true for those who believe that the Bible is the exact letter for letter dictated words of God, The Jewish and fundamental Christian religions believe that the first 5 books of the Bible were written by Moses and were written exactly as spoken to him by God.



For those who marvel at the wisdom and teachings in the Bible and dont get hung up on the minor details of a word or phrase that has been translated a dozen or more times over several thousand years, will probably not have much difficulty in accepting an alien as God.

Most scholars agree that there is significant evidence that many parts of the Bible may have been embellished by the various authors or even mistranslated. Would Moses have even had the ability to understand the technology of genetic engineering, or DNA and convey that concept in his writings? He described everything in the terms and language that he knew and was the first literal translation of Gods words.



God still could have created Adam through genetic engineering, and could have slightly altered Adams DNA to great Eve and God would still be the Creator. The underlying concepts of the Bible would remain intact.

Likewise, the biblical teaching that God is both Creator and God is Omipotent, and all that transpires is due to God's will and by the power and grace of God is simply no longer true. I say that because God will have been shown as "not" the creator. In the above story, Omnipotent God is not also the creator. The creator is simply just some aliens dropping some seeds. They moved on. They didn't stick around and run things, pulling invisible strings, making floods happen, or even knowing what happens on our planet. They started things, but then they moved on. That's very different than what most think of when they think of an all powerful, all knowing, all controlling God.

Whos to say that God did not cause the Big Bang which was responsible for the formation of our universe? Nobody is saying that if God is an alien, that he comes from our universe.



Again, all of this is based on Moses interpretation of what God said. God may still have complete contact and control of what occurs on Earth. We all may be part of his neural network and he sees everything on earth through us?

Again, the scenario tends to shed light on "HOW DID WE GET HERE?", but it doesn't answer the questions: "WHY ARE WE HERE?", and "WHAT'S NEXT AFTER THIS?"

Of course nobody can answer that accept God.and we wont know answers until he returns and tells us.

Some would say that religion came about because man didn't feel comfortable with the answer "I don't know!" to some of these rather fundamental questions.

Perhaps that is true? Again, thats we may never know. I prefer to think that man witnessed marvelous things happen and could only assume they were divinely inspired. Perhaps God created Adam to be a more intelligent creature who he could communicate with, and teach him, or maybe we are just a genetic experiment?



Rich

 

[Thomas Rogers]

RichardL said:

I prefer to think that man witnessed marvelous things happen and could only assume they were divinely inspired.

When you say that, I think of:

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

-- Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)

And, a converse to that would be that to any sufficently ignorant species things they do not understand might appear to be magical or otherwise caused by some diety.



Now, where we see collission, or friction, is when those things attributed to a diety become relgious dogma, and then they get past down from generation to generation without question, at some point in time, intelligence advances to the point of questioning them...and then to disproving them.



When that happens, what happens to the diety?



TJR

 

[Kevin Lang]

When that happens, what happens to the diety?

It will be said that we have just discovered how the Diety chose to perform said attributed thing, and that if there were no explanation available, then it would prove the existence of the Diety, which would then destroy the notion of Faith, as you can't believe in a truth.



E.G. Weather. Formerly believed to be of naught but God's caprice, then meterology debuted, and then it was said that solar activity & cloud formations etc were just the means through which God inacted his weather plans. Romantic languages still use the phrasing "God makes [the weather]" today.

 

[Richard L]

KL,

as you can't believe in a truth.

That makes no sense to me??? Please clarify as it sounds like you are simply quoting someone and perhaps taken that phrase out of context and applied it where it does not fit? As you state it, it makes it sound like we should only believe in Lies?



...Rich

 

[Kevin Lang]

Please clarify as it sounds like you are simply quoting someone and perhaps taken that phrase out of context and applied it where it does not fit?

I'm hurt :rofl:



IIRC, I mentioned this already in this thread. It's simple semantics--belief is assurance that an unproven factor will work the way one assumes it will. This assurance is called faith. With a fact, you know how that fact will work. There is no mystery(i.e. faith) in what its action will be, and without mystery--without faith, you aren't believing, you're knowing.

Knowing != Believing.



Continuing beyond semantics:



Since you aren't one for original thought:

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."

Hebrews 11:1 (NIV)



Or, if you elect to disregard that quote due to its origin:

Faith, (Fayeth),/fe&#618;/ : belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

Dictonary.com



You cannot hope for a fact, and you can "see" a fact. Therefore you cannot have faith in a fact, and by extension you then cannot believe in a fact.



Common language examples would be "I believe in intelligent aliens" as opposed to "I know the sky is blue". No one will say that they merely believe that the sky is blue, it's a blatant fact. Intelligent aliens are not, their existence is not proven, therefore one may only believe in them.

As you state it, it makes it sound like we should only believe in Lies?

So, why did you capitalize that "L"? Beyond that, my statement was a "veiled" quote of what I've found to be ubiquitous in Christian dogma: If iron-clad evidence were to exist that proves, beyond any doubt, that God is extant, then people would know that God exists. This evidence will never be found as God does not want people to know that he exists, rather people have to make the choice to seek him out despite uncertainty. There's a whole time-honored book about this. :grin:

 

[Richard L]

KL,

as you can't believe in a truth.

I think your statement would be more accurate if you said "You cannot believe in something that has been proven to be true or known to be true", but then I don't entirely agree with that either. If God appear on earth tomorrow, some would believe it was God and others would not. Some who believed in God would simply not accept that God is an alien.



I am not debating the existence of God. I am only wondering how religion would change if we discovered that God was a highly advanced alien. Remember that God appeared to Moses, and Noah, and many other Biblical characters that became the backbone of our religions... So why would seeing God again, even as an alien change religion. We would still teach the next generation about God's visit and would have to convince them that he does exist. If the earth survived for another 2000 years, faith would continue for those who did not witness his presence.



...Rich

 

[Thomas Rogers]

RichardL,



The difference is that if an alien made contact tomorrow and showed proof of being the creator, today that news, that event would probably get well documented by video recording and instantly transmitted around the world.



Skeptics and conspiracy theorists would debate the authenticity of the footage, regardless whether or not they were considering any theological linkage. Some would claim it proves there is a God, and some of those would claim the alien is an instrument of God, while others of that set would claim the alien to be God. Some, on the other hand would claim that the alien is proof that there is no God, or at least there is no Biblical God "the Creator."



For some, it would be business as usual. However, my personal opinion is that it would shake up much of Christianity as we know it.



TJR

 

[Robert Thomas]

There are aliens roaming earth.



50 years ago, rednecks everywhere were constantly being abducted and probed by aliens.



Today 50 years later, the aliens have evolved. They now are all prostate cancer doctors. People come to them to get probed, they sechedule you for more probing, and in addition they make you pay for it.



:cheeky::cheeky:

 

[Richard L]

TJR,

I agree that things would be business as usual. I don't necessarily think that Christianity would be shaken that much. Why do you think it would cause so much doubt in Christianity?



Jesus was the son of God, so if God was an alien and the creator of man...perhaps through genetic engineering, why couldn't Jesus be his son? Mary was claimed to be a virgin, and medically we can now do invitro-fertilization, So why couldn't God have implanted a genetically engineered embryo into Jesuses mother?



I just saw a program on the Science channel about cloning dinosaurs (yes, like they did in the movie Jurrasic Park). Scientist claim that within 100 years they will know enough about genitics and DNA to be able to genetically create living animals with any characteristics they desire.. and would be capable of retro-engineering a dinosaur.



If their predictions are correct, imagine what an alien with intelligents that exceeds ours by thousands, millions or billions of years could do.



I think people cannot comprehend the notion that God may not be exactly as described in the Bible or other early scriptures. I think many people forget that all of these scriptures were written by men who witnessed things so far beyond their comprehension and they tried to convey that in the terms that they, and other of that time could understand.



...Rich