OT: Anyone use the "Lemon Law"...

[Thomas Rogers]

My wife's 04 Merc Mountaineer is almost out of warranty at 34K miles. Since about 11K miles it has had a serious auto transmission slip/lurch. Often when putting into reverse it doesn't catch and then does and it jerks the whole vehicle sometimes in an unsafe manner, other times it does it when selecting drive and then accellerating. Furthermore it lurches/slips with a clunk in what feels like between 2nd and 3rd, both on accel and decel.



We have had the vehicle into the dealer at least 5 times on this issue. It is at the dealer now. They have done various maintenance on it, including friction mods, solenoid pack replacements, and other minor stuff...nothing major like a new tranny. Everytime it leaves the shop it seems a little better for a day or so, then its back to the jerking, clunking and lurching.



As I said, the vehicle is at the dealer now. It has been acting up upon most drives for me since the last time it was in about 3 weeks ago, but they say it isn't exhibiting the problem now and there are no codes, so they have no way of knowing what to fix. To be fair, when I dropped it off yesterday, it wasn't showing the problem, and that made me mucho ticked because I could guess what was coming. The dealer has performed all the same service and replacements for our vehicle that they do for all vehicles that show the same problem, and it seems to fix the problems for others, but not us.



This is a leased vehicle. We still have about 10 months and 10K miles left on it (we got a 39 mo lease and the vehicle was a demo with 4K on it when we got it). Frankly, I am more than sick of this and would rather not drive "the jerk mobile" another 9 or 10 months, especially given that I have the additional insult of having to make payments on it each month for the honor of being able to drive it.



So, my question, should I pursue the "lemon law", as I assume it applies? Any thoughts or comments?



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

The Pennsylvania Lemon Law applies to new cars that suffer a nonconformity; a defect or condition, which substantially impairs the use, value or safety; that cannot be repaired after three attempts by an authorized manufacturer's dealership. This nonconformity must first occur within the first 12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Pennsylvania Lemon Law also applies to vehicles that are in the shop for repair thirty (30) or more calendar days during the first year.

According to the state you live it, your vehicle is not a lemon.





Tom

 

[Les]

I'm not sure if this falls under the lemon law due to its age. However, if you are considering leasing another vehicle or buying one from Ford, I would think you would be able to use this problem to get a new car. A friend of mine that has leased an Explorer for several years always trades it in prior to the end of the lease. And usually, Ford is the one that calls him.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Thanks Tom...I guess, though this Ford/Mercury product leaves a very sour taste in my mouth it is not a lemon.



Anyone have any advice on the mechanical problem as I have described it?



Wouldn't be the first time guys on this board have had to help tell Ford mechanics how to fix something.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

Tom,



Have you tried a different dealer? To me, it sounds like the Tranny is giving you problems. Either a tranny rebuild or maybe actually something as simple as an ECU flash.



Maybe the program in the engine computer is is screwed up causing eratic operation.





Tom

 

[Chops]

The good thing is you're not going to be stuck with it on the far end. The downside to that is you may be stuck with a tranny bill at lease end....If it is lurching at the time you turn it back in it could happen. Not fair I know, but something to think about.



Many Dealers offer an early lease buy-out program, yes you still have to pay longer (nothing is free or dismissed) but that may be a way to get out of it before something major happens.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Chops, I paid an extra $350 for the "normal wear" option on the lease and have a buttload of documentation and prior repair attempts of this tranny problem while under warranty. I won't be paying for a new tranny when this thing gets turned back in...they would have to take me to court to see that money!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Tom, they have tried the ECU reprogramming. And, I haven't tried other dealers because this is the dealer I leased the vehicle and bought my ST from....and they are the dealer that if they don't fix the problem, or if they give me crap when I return the leased POS will lose my business forever, and have a nice, laminated sign on my front yard for about 12 months saying "Avoid *** Ford. They Don't Service What They Sell!".



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

Could the root of the problem be an incompetant dealer?





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

If it's an incompetent dealer then it's Ford's problem, not mine. That's why we go to dealers, to get Ford Certified mechanics. I shouldn't have to shop around.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

dupe removed

 

[Tom Schindler]

If it's an incompetent dealer then it's Ford's problem, not mine.

A dealer is a franchise. You go to one McDonalds and get bad service. You go to another McDonalds and get great service. That is how franchises work. Private owners operate their businesses the way they see fit. As long as it meets the corporate requirements, then the franchise owner is in the clear.



If you get bad service at McDonalds #1, but still like McDonalds, that doesn't stop you from going to McDonalds #2.



Do you like having a vehicle not running right? I do agree that it is Ford's problem, but as long and you still drive it..it is your problem too.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen says:

A dealer is a franchise. You go to one McDonalds and get bad service. You go to another McDonalds and get great service. That is how franchises work. Private owners operate their businesses the way they see fit. As long as it meets the corporate requirements, then the franchise owner is in the clear.



If you get bad service at McDonalds #1, but still like McDonalds, that doesn't stop you from going to McDonalds #2.

I'm sorry, but I think your analogy is all wet....here is why:



McDonald's is known for selling "consistency". Before you go into a McDonald's you know the quality, cleanliness, and level of service to expect and you RARELY IF EVER are disappointed or unpleasantly surprised. Ray Croc made sure of this, and that is why he created Hamburger University and why the franchisee "play books" leave almost NOTHING to chance, whether it be process, procedure or manner.



I expect and demand the same thing from Ford. I expect that their dealer mechanics are trained, and that in that training they get certified and that certification means quality and dependability….and a level of competence that is the same from dealer to dealer. That's the main reason I go to a dealer than to Joe's Garage.



I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

BTW, I just called the dealer. I did some research on the net and came to the conclusion that the solenoid pack probably needs replacing...again.



You see, we got the vehicle in early 04 with 4K miles on it. And, the problem started surfacing that first year, 7K miles later. At that time they replaced the solenoid pack and it was better, for a while.



Then several months later in 2005, they did the tranny fluid additive. I suspect that the miles that were put on the replaced solenoid with the old tranny fluid from the factory took some toll.



I have asked if a solenoid pack replacement along with a full tranny flush and tranny fluid refill with correct fluid might not solve this problem once and for all.



The service manager said: "You know, that makes sense. I was looking at your service history and thinking the same thing."



But, it took me finding TSBs, forum posts, and news article clips to realize that the symptoms point to the solenoid pack, and that there must have been something that was causing the replacement pack to fail...and it seems to be right there in the service history.



P.S. Does anyone know what is happening to the solenoid pack to make it fail? Is it getting gummed up? Is a part breaking?



TJR

 

[mookie]

TJR,



While it's not an "unreasonable expectation" to go to a dealer and expect your vehicle to be fixed, if it isn't getting repaired, then maybe you should change what to expect from this dealer.



Just a thought....

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I hear you Mookie (and Caymen)...One definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!"



TJR

 

[mookie]

TJR,



:lol:You got that right...and don't we all do that!

 

[Yardsale]

Check the Info. forder in my library for the MagnusonMossAct.doc.doc file. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is federal.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

***UPDATE***



The local Ford dealer replaced the main valve body in the transmission today and it lurching and hesitation has stopped. Let's hope it stays that way for at least another 10K miles...which is all we have left on the lease.



Oh, and a full steering wheel is coming in and getting replaced next week. It has the leather rot at 12 o'clock, common to Fords.



All the work done under warranty...while it lasts. 1500 miles to go.



P.S. First sign of a tranny slip and the '04 ST is history and I suspect these will be our last Fords ever! Sorry!



P.S.S....I found the website linked below and filled in my personal info and expecting a schiester to call any minute.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

ANOTHER UPDATE:



I am probably going to proceed with the lemon law case. In PA as long as your new or leased vehicle has been in the shop 3 or more times for the same repair, and is still under warranty, than you can make a claim. The claim NEED NOT occur within the first 12 months.



So, I qualify.



Even though the valve body was replaced (again), I doubt it will solve the problem and it is likely to occur again before I have to surrender the vehicle in 9K miles. If I wait until the vehicle goes off-warranty, I am hosed. Though I have the issue documented, I will likely be obligated to pay at least 10% towards future repairs (so my dealer has said...some type of after-warranty "assistance" program).



So, Ford...you f'ed up. The company representing me wins 95% of their cases, and at absolutely NO COST to me. PA has a provision that moves the attorney fees to the manufacturer if the case is won.



And, I am likely looking at cash compensation for diminshed value and diminished use of the vehicle. The other forms of settlement are trade-in, and buy-back.



1 in 10 '04 Explorers and Mountaineers exhibit this problem. If you are one of the unlikely ones, you don't have to take it.



TJR