OT: Pic of my new Focus

[Tom Schindler]

I have always felt a tach is nothing more than an extra gadget.



Unless you are driving a speorts car, a tach is not needed. While teaching my wife to drive a manual, I try to explain to her while driving, you can hear and feel when the engine likes or dislikes an RPM at a given speed. If you are going up hill, your engine should be turning a little faster than if you are going down that hill, and a different RPM when driving on a flat road.



There is no right RPM to be in, just some are better than others.



I have found with her, she is worried about looking at the tach to make sure she is doing it right. Maybe next time, I will cover the tach with a sheet of paper.....hmmmm.





Tom

 

[Gavin Allan]

I agree with Tom on the tach. I grew up learning to drive VW Beetles. A good driver don't need no stinkin' tachometer!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Jenn,



No, I couldn't get the $500 off. It was linked to financing through Ford and the lowest rates I could get with Ford for 60mo was 8.9%. I secured my own 60mo financing for 5.6%. It sounds like they reluctantly gave you yours. I tried everything to get the money.



As for the seat-side airbags, I do have the safety package and I know it comes with side-curtain. I haven't checked the seats to see if they have side airbags...I know they typically have an airbag sticker on them if they do. You are right...if you have them, then you want seat covers that won't interfere with that.



P.S. I just checked and I do have the side seat airbags.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



Your price you got got you the rebate. There was nothing else to get.



As for the seat covers for side airbags...Wet Okole makes them for the side airbags.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen, I don't disagree on the Rebate. The $500 Ford financing cash was no doubt from Ford Credit and as we all know, big companies have different finance centers, each with their own bottom lines. So I never expected to get the $500 if I didn't finance with Ford.



It sounds like Jenn's salesperson talked through their butt, promised something they shouldn't, and rather than bait and switch had to make the deal.



The fact that they did make the deal and came up with the $500 in Jenn's case even with financing from a third-party makes me think (and gives credit to what Mud was saying...I think it was Mud) that "so-called" invoice price really is negotiable. Put bluntly, Jenn and I had the exact same cars, exact same deal, but her dealer lobbed off another $500 (reluctantly), and I have to think they still made money. Mine wouldn't...so they made even more money.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



I searched your dealer inventory and using your ZIP Code, I can access all your rebates and incentives you can get in your district. I can look at everything about your car.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen, yeah, so?



As I said, Jenn had the same incentives available to her and they gave her the $500 Ford Credit financing incentive even without her financing through Ford Credit. So, I have to assume Ford Credit didn't pony up that money, but the dealer did to cover their mistake. And even with the mistake I (and I suspect you would too) DOUBT that the dealer LOST money on Jenn's deal.



So, as I said, I got a great deal, but I don't believe that at or near-invoice less rebates is the absolute lowest a dealer can go. I just don't believe it.



TJR

 

[Josh Langel]

I am so glad there is atleast one person here who knows everything.

 

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



Ok, whatever you think...it really doesn't matter. Did you see the actual invoice?



Josh, glad to se you helping out. Nothing as helpful as someone throwing fuel in the fire when they have no idea what they are talking about. But that is OK, that is what living in a free country is all about. I always thought you were a good guy. Guess I was wrong about that because frankly, you are acting like a jerk. I think you are better than that.





Tom

 

[Josh Langel]

Tom. Are you serious? Coming from one of the most sarcastic guys on this site.



Get real.

 

[WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs]

Looks good TJR. focaljet.com if your looking for any info on the Focus. Young crowd but good info available.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



I didn't see the actual invoice, but given what I researched on Edmunds and what the dealer told me, I was getting the deal for about $70 over invoice. Of course, they could have lied and Edmunds could have been wrong.



But then again the invoice amount is kinda moot because the whole point of what I was saying (and what Mud was saying in the other thread) is that we suspect invoice is meaningless, at least if one thinks they are getting the best possible deal if a vehicle is sold "at invoice".



You haven't chimed in on that assertion yet, Caymen.



You have the inside track. You know people who work and have worked at Ford. So, you tell us, can a dealer sell a car at or below invoice and still make money (always, ever)?



TJR

 

[Jenn D]

TJR,



I have the invoice with my paperwork. I'll try to remember to e-mail you later and let you know the prices. The invoice contains the different levels plans as well as the "joe-schmoe" price. Off the top of my head, I don't know the numbers, but like I said, I'll let you know when I have access to those papers later.



If you paid near what I paid, $12,176, then you pretty much maxed the deal out as far as the invoice price goes I believe. As far as getting the number under invoice and whether that's possible....I don't know.



Hope this helps.



-Jenn

 

[Tom Schindler]

You have the inside track. You know people who work and have worked at Ford. So, you tell us, can a dealer sell a car at or below invoice and still make money (always, ever)?

Yes they can make money, but they don't always. If the vehicle has been sitting on the lot for a long time, they sell it at invoice, you finance it yourself, and you buy no extended warranty or any goodies, they are not making any money, and if they are, they are not making very much of it.



Than again, what incentive does the dealer have to sell you a car at invoice besides the sale?



FWIW, X-Plan would have been a better deal AND you would have been in and out of the dealer in an hour.



I can no longer look up your vehicles information since it is sold and it is out of the system.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



I was in and out of the dealer in less than an hour. I never negotiate price with the dealer while at the dealership....that's for suckers.



Here is what I do:



- I do my research first finding the vehicle that I might want online through dealer website searches



- I figure the price I want to pay, which is typically what Edmunds lists as invoice, less any available incentives (I research those too).



- I get my own financing (just in case),



- Test drive the vehicle



- If I like the test drive and the price seems right, I call back and give the dealer an offer over the phone.



Each and every time I have done this, and I have done it about 4 times now, the dealer has accepted my offer and I have been assured that I am getting the vehicle at or within $100 of invoice, less incentives.



Given my track record with this approach and that no dealer yet has said "Sorry, I'm not making ANY money selling the car at invoice", I have to assume that their is still profit there when the dealer sells at or just above invoice.



Sure, I probably could have saved money using X-Plan, but I had no pins. As for saving time...maybe I would have saved time in avoided research. But I don't see how I could have saved time at the dealer. Heck, I tried several times to save time at the dealer (dropped of old reg, proof of insurance, new insurance card, etc) the day before coming in for the pickup of the new vehicle...but that was ALL FOR NOTHING, because they still waited until the last minute and didn't fill out sales forms until I was there. I suppose they do this because any amount of work done ahead of time is wasted if someone backs out (and I can't say that I really blame them), but I hate waiting...that's why I provide info and materials ahead of time.



The next time I buy a Ford, if at the same place, I will have to coach them better and tell them not to waste my time. I will provide everything ahead of time, and they should have everything prepped so that I can sign and drive when I come in.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

P.S. I still haven't signed the finance papers for my Focus. I spent 45 minutes at the dealer the night I picked it up just dealing with registration forms, purchase forms, and insurance forms (and as I said, I provided them mucho stuff ahead of time).



I just talked with the finance manager and told him I would be using a loan they secured, that I wouldn't be extending the warranty, and wanted to be in and out as quickly as possible when I stopped by tonight, and he said to expect to spend 30 to 45 minutes.



As I said before, then next purchase from these "clowns" better go a little more quickly. Spending an between 1 and 2 hours at a dealership while you watch guys fill out paperwork is crap. I just bought a Chrysler car, and it was done much better at that dealership.



Yes, I know, each dealer is different. I buy from this particular Ford dealer because they are right down the road from my house (2 miles) the next closest one is 10 miles away.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



A better way to buy is contact any members here that have given X-Plan PIN's to many other members. Two of them are myself and Robert Poole.



You email us, or I can give you my phone number and you can call me. You give me your address, legal name, and last four numbers of your SSN. I get you a PIN. You give me the VIN of the vehicle you are interested in. I go to the Ford direct website and access the dealer inventory. With the VIN number, I get you the MSRP, Invoice price, X-Plan price, and all incentives for your ZIP code. You are happy with the price, you tell your dealer you are X-Plan. They give you the invoice, you confirm the VIN, and you pay the X-Plan price.



All done. Best price, no "wheeling and dealing", no Edmunds researching. You know the invoice price to the penny.



Simple to buy.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yeah, Caymen, I saw you stated at the time that you were out of pins, saving your last ones for a cousin or something.



I'm happy with my approach, because it works for ANY vehicle from any manufacturer.



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

Best way to do it is to choose very wealthy parents or else marry for money!

 

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



You are also aware that there are others here that also give PIN's out. I even mentioned a name.



I am not saying what you did was wrong. Simply put, you wanted another $500.00 discount applied that wasn't even available. So the money, like always, was an issue. Not saying you were unable to afford, but like myself, you work hard for your money and want to keep as much of it as possible.



In other words, you spent time researching a vehicle edmunds.com, test drove it, made a phone call, got the best deal you could get, and then heard someone else got a good deal and an extra bonus you didn't get.



Incentives vary from area to area. Not everything she got you could have gotten and vise-versa.



Rest assured, there were no more incentives you could have gotten.



If the dealer was giving away extra money on their own, that is a different story.



There is a Mercury dealer near me that will give you a bonus $1,000.00 if you are buying under Z-Plan. (Z-Plan is the same as A-Plan, but for retired Ford Employees) On top of that, they also give you free car washes for the time you own your car. That is what they do.



Maybe the owner is very rich or they make up the difference with the other sales.



That is all I am saying. I know you work hard for your money, we all do. I know you and I are alike and that is why we butt heads all the time. I just wanted you to be aware that short of the dealer giving you more off the price, you got all the incentives you were entitled to.





Tom