OT: Richest 2% own more than half the world

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If you are in your mid to late 20s or early 30s and still working a minimum wage job, that is YOUR fault caused by your choices.
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If only that were true! Sadly, not everyone gets an equal chance. If you're born a poor minority, and you're not a genius, you don't have the same chance for success as the well-off white boy whose parents put him through Harvard. Don't be so ignorant as to act like there is no racial, gender and economical bias on the part of employers. Some people are dealt a hand that is very difficult to rise up from regardless of how hard they work.



Likewise, I see no direct correlation between how hard someone works and how much they get paid. Some of the least hardest working guys I know make the most money. I personally know guys in IT jobs who are making $120K a year to basically sit on their duffs and maybe do 4 good man hours of work a week. They are heralded by society as "successful" and for every one of them, there are hundreds of low-wage, hard-laboring folks doing multiple jobs and working their asses off 80 hours a week to provide for their families.



If wealth were handed out proportional to how hard people work, the guy who mows your lawn would totally OWN you.
 
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Adam - I used to be one of those IT people. I thought it was an easy job. Didn't work hard at all. But when a down system came upon us and we would have it back up in 15 mins, where the freakin DB owner screwed it up because they had to change some rows in the database to make it run better, never worked btw...we saved the company millions in lost production. We were treated like gold. And, paid very well for it.



And, I'm a minority, from a poor family that used to live in the Detroit Ghettos with only a high school degree. I wanted to work instead of go to college and I trained myself on computers, database, web design and graphics.



It's called motivation. People can Bitch all they want about their current status or they can do something about it.



Therefore, I agree and disagree with you.







 
SST, or it's like the time my wife and I were in line buying groceries. We had our coupons, and were buying items on sale, and sticking with store brands and such, not buying anything that fancy, mostly staples (bread, milk, fresh veggies, bulk hamburger, etc). Then, in front of us is a couple buying steak, frozen jumbo rock lobster tail, gourmet frozen dinners, etc. They paid with food stamps, we paid with cash.
 
Yup Adam, the class envy and contempt runs both ways. The great thing though is that we do live in a country that doesn't have a true caste system and there is no real reason that even our poorest poor can't rise up and substantially better themselves. There are lots of excuses as to why they don't, but no real reasons.
 
Adam said:
If wealth were handed out proportional to how hard people work, the guy who mows your lawn would totally OWN you.
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And where it should not. Wealth, or more specifically the pay for a job should not be defined based on hard work. It should be defined by the VALUE that the job done right offers. Those IT guys "sitting on their duff" can have a couple of "brain farts" a week and make or save MILLIONS for the companies they work for during a year. That's value. It's often what we call in the industry "the cost of keeping people on the bench!". Sure, your IT guys don't work physical work and it's often hard to guage their value. But the good ones, like good baseball players, are the ones you want on YOUR BENCH.



It's the same with CEOs and executives. Good ones more than earn their salary, though to people that do physical labor it is hard to comprehend.



TJR
 
It's the same with CEOs and executives. Good ones more than earn their salary, though to people that do physical labor it is hard to comprehend.
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And likewise, it is the other way around. Without those that do physical labor the CEO does not have a job nor is he worth anything. Unfortunatly, CEO's do not see the laborers as people, only numbers. Many salary personal feel the same way.



Truth is that most people are happy making a fair wage for a fair day at work. There are some that want, want, want but arent willing to give, give, give. Most are happy to be treated fairly.



Unfortunatly, not everyone is treated fairly nor are they compensated fairly. Because one man complains does not mean he deserves more money while the other guy doesn't.



It isn't envy, it is all what is fair. We ask for fairness in the court system. We ask for fairness in the way a parents treat us. We ask for fairness in our workload. We ask for fairness in our job.





Tom
 
Sorry, Caymen, I should have said: "though to many people that do physical labor",



...just as I am sure you should have said "many CEOs"



Clearly not everyone thinks the way we think they do. That would be arrogant on both our parts.



You say that it's about fairness...and I can see where you are going. More justifications for unions. I actually think just the opposites. Unions and union shops are UNFAIR to the valued worker. They don't need representation. It's like being forced to pay "protection" money when your an 800lb gorilla. You can take care of yourself. Having to pay someone to do it for you isn't FAIR.



TJR
 
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They don't need representation. It's like being forced to pay "protection" money when your an 800lb gorilla.
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the sad thig is, in an open shop, you can choose to remain non-union.



Sounds great and fair...right?



Not really. Those that choose to be non-union get all the rights, pay, vacation time, holidays, vacations, etc. as a union member does, yet they don't pay for dues. They even get reprensentation when needed.



Being union is not protection, it is fairness. Something I strongly believe in. I was one of those guys that if I knew I was making more then you were, but you had more qualifications then I did, I will alert you that you are underpaid and you should request more money. If I can do 10 different jobs in the same ammount of time as the other guy, I should get the same pay.





Tom
 
Likewise, I see no direct correlation between how hard someone works and how much they get paid. Some of the least hardest working guys I know make the most money. I personally know guys in IT jobs who are making $120K a year to basically sit on their duffs and maybe do 4 good man hours of work a week. They are heralded by society as "successful" and for every one of them, there are hundreds of low-wage, hard-laboring folks doing multiple jobs and working their asses off 80 hours a week to provide for their families.



If wealth were handed out proportional to how hard people work, the guy who mows your lawn would totally OWN you.
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Off to work. Gotta earn a living doing pyhsical labor.
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Why is it that only "physical labor" is considered "hard work" by many? Typical class envy.



My wife is a teacher, which typically isn't a physical labor intensive job, but she works her tail off to give her kids the best education possible, coming home exhausted every day. And she often puts in extra hours at home on paperwork or preparing lessons for school.



My brother-in-law is a health care attorney, often working 80 or more hours a week and traveling around the country much of the year.



Are they not considered "hard-working" folks?:huh:
 
TrainTrac - I hear ya. My wife is a vp at a company and she reports to the President and CEO. She leaves the house at 6:30am and comes home around 7PM. She has a Blackberry and is expected to answer emails and calls 24/7 even when she is sick or on vacation.
 
I wasn't discounting "mental labor" in general, or saying all IT guys, CEOs, presidents, don't work hard etc..., I was just noting that:



A) hard work is not a guaranteed path to wealth, and

B) not all wealthy people earned their wealth.



Sure, there are great presidents who started in the mail room and earned their way to the top, but there are also company presidents who are lazy sons of the son of the son of a guy who once did some hard work starting a company. There are also company presidents and CEOs who are just appointed family friends of the owners.



At least a couple of those top 1% are guys who spent their unemployment check on scratch tickets. Some rich folks just got a lucky break.



TJR said:
Those IT guys "sitting on their duff" can have a couple of "brain farts" a week and make or save MILLIONS for the companies they work for during a year.
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Exactly!! It's not hard work that gets you the big bucks in this country, it's having a skill that enables you to help the richest people get even richer, so that you can get a little piece of it. Those IT guys with the useful "brain farts" are worth paying well precisely because they are making MILLIONS for the even richer guys up the chain (president, ceo, investors).
 
Why is it that only "physical labor" is considered "hard work" by many? Typical class envy.
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TrainTrac, in no way was that a stab at anyone that does any other type of labor.



I wonder, did you take offense to that statement? If so, that was my intentions.





Tom
 
I wonder, did you take offense to that statement? If so, that was my intentions.
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Typo, or did you truly mean to offend?:huh:



Whatever the case, no offense taken, Tom. I'm pretty thick-skinned, and unlike some on this site, I don't get worked up about things said here, as most of the time they're just friendly discussions.



I have worked in many different types of jobs in my life, both ones that could be considered "physical", and others that could be considered "desk jobs".



I was just asking a question based on a general observation of attitude differences between "white collar" and "blue collar" workers. It seems that in general, blue collar workers view white collar workers as lazy and undeserving of what they earn. Conversely, (again generally speaking) white collar workers view their blue collar counterparts as uneducated automatons. We had the same attitudes/rivalries in the military between officers and enlisted personnel. I don't subscribe to either mentality, because both types of workers are an integral part of our economy.
 


Scene1:

My father in law 1989 Worcester Ma. wins class action lawsuit from Hispanic City workers against the city he busted his asrse for for 20 years only to be making less than some of the new hires. These were UNION workers who sued the city for discrimination. They were passed over on promos and got less wages than their white co-workers for no reason other than they were Hispanic. Thank god the unions took care of them ...eh.



Scene2:

Hispanic worker hired same time as white worker in same city. Opening comes up for Foreman job, both guys have same quals mind you but the white guys grandad knows so and so and so and so. White guy fails 2 drug tests... Does he get fired like the other workers or go on probation for failing? No, they now have to give the job to a Hispanic... and if it wasn't for the Hispanic guys saying enough was enough with the BS and was ready to escalate it they would not have given him the job....



Scene3:

My sisters boyfriend who happens to be white works for his father company making over 90k a year as a foreman for construction. UNION.... family is very well off... As a matter of fact he and my sis live in a million dollar home. But EEEVRY winter he gets laid off and goes skiing, goes on trips and vaca's ....generally just spends the cash alll while collecting a nice UNEMPLOYMENT check!!!

Kinda nice huh.....



But I gotta hear the same ole cliche story of the 'Woman buying lobster and steak with food stamps while I pay for hamburger with cash'.... or the "I got passed over as a police man even though i did better than mr Black"....



Yea and here is the kicker My wife works for a well respected OBGYN as office manager and medical coding specialist. Now he has 3 young Hispanics and 2 white ladies working for him.

A few years ago he decides he is no longer going to pay for medical insurance because

every one's husband can get it through their jobs. All except one.... She still gets hers paid in full by him. But out of all of them guess who owns the Biggest house and has the husband who gets the winter layoff while collecting every year, and basically is better off than all of them.... You guessed it.... Everyone else had to struggle to make end meet



Now again if I sound a little bitter it's because I am. I see all this finger pointing and discussion on how good it is to be reaping the benefits of being a minority. Yea we are just soaking it all up, yet whenever there is a little break to be had, as little something just to get you by or to help you on the way it seems they go to the white guys. Maybe I am wrong but perception is a MF....



trust me guys being a minority in this country is not the cakewalk you guys want to make it out to be, just my $.02

Joseymack
 
Josey, most unions are lead by rich white guys and many don't care about brown people.



So that whole notion that unions protect everyone and are NOT an "old buddy system" is kinda bullshit!
 
Q so should i just accept the fact that the minorities in the city were getting screwed in terms of pay? Am i whining because it was and still is an issue? What will it take to get you to understand that this crap is unacceptable. it is discrimination on the large scale which holds us down ecomomically and affects our families and our lives... I am not too worried about the jackass who follows me around the store thinking I'm gonna steal something, I am more worried about the bank loans that happen systematically charging us higher rates for no reason other than my skin color!



Waaah my Butt!



Joseymack
 
Q so should i just accept the fact that the minorities in the city were getting screwed in terms of pay
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I'm not condoning racism or anything of the sort. Everyone should get EQUAL chance at promotins and pay, but it does go both ways. In Memphis, if you want a contact with the city and have to deal with King Willy Herrington (if you thought the mayor of Choclate City was bad, you've never seen or heard about King Willy) you had better be black or some "minority". There is less than 10% of the contracts that go to a White owned company.



However, last I checked, no one was holding a gun to my head telling me I HAD TO WORK FOR COMPANY X. If you don't like the working conditions and nothing is changing....





GET OVER IT!





You have a choice. Put up or shutup. Get your ass out the door and find someplace else. Start your own company. Do something. Don't just sit there and bitch and whine and talk about how "tha man" is keeping you down. Life is tough and everyone has choices to make.



Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Sam Walton, Steve Jobs, Steve Wosniak, et al in the US didn't get their fortune from complaining that their boss only promoted his friends, they did something to change their lives (and those of many hundreds of others as well). They saw an opportunity (or were forced to find an opportunity) and took a chance.



Risk small, gain small/loose small. Risk big, gain big/loose big. It's a choice.



Peace out.
 
I don't per se disagree with what was written but it's just ironic that the names mentioned were all Caucasian males.
 

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