OT: UAW Launches Strike Against GM

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Funny, I have been critical of unions, but I never said I hate them, nor the benefits they negotiate for their members.



It's funny how easy it is to villify those you don't see eye to eye with.



I don't hate unions, I don't even think they are that corrupt. I just question their value, and question if they don't hurt members, companies, and the various local economies where they are influential by delaying in some cases, and accelerating in others the inevitable...which is typically the demise of a corporation that simply cannot compete.



TJR
 
I don't hate all unions...just unions that misuse their power to harm its own members, the company that pays them and disturbs the national economy. Our country doesn't need something like this, when the economy is already on shaky ground. GM doesn't need this either, when it is barely hanging on. The workers certainly don't need this. They can very easily see themselves in the same position the workers at the Oklahoma City plant are in...out of a job.



I don't hate unions, I don't even think they are that corrupt. I just question their value, and question if they don't hurt members, companies, and the various local economies where they are influential by delaying in some cases, and accelerating in others the inevitable...which is typically the demise of a corporation that simply cannot compete.



I used to have this kind of thinking. However, after working for a variety of companies with a variety of management styles and philosophies, as well as earning a Masters degree in Management, I have now come to the conclusion that there is a place in the world of work where unions are valuable and who actually do serve some very good purposes. I could probably talk about this for hours, but basically it boils down to this:



1. Some managements earn the opportunity to have a union in their shops. There are some truly evil and/or incompetent managements out there who certainly deserve the union and the adversarial relationship that it brings. I have witnessed some very evil actions and understand why employees may want to organize.



Companies can either choose to consider employees as costly expenses to reduce or eliminate as much as possible, or they can choose to view employees as a valuable resource to develop and cherish. Guess which attitude gets a union?



2. Unions often put in a structure and order to the workplace that the management has not done. I supervised union employees at one location that had just formed a union, and I often helped my employes fill out grievances and signed them too because as a member of management (a first-line supervisor), my team and I were not given the structure under which we operated and we did not know the rules or expectations. The management refused to commit to a set of rules, and they would haphazardly apply the rules based on who was under the desk that week (no one ever crawled under my desk, though :(.) The union performed a valuable service in that instance by providing rules and structure where management refused or was unwilling to do so.



3. Now I work in career education and I see all sorts of training programs, schools, courses, etc. Aside from the military, which probably has the best, most efficient vocational training in the world, the unions are also very good at providing very high quality training and developing a very skilled, even profesisonal workforce. The trades training programs in St. Louis and Kansas City are among some of the best in the state of Missouri for developing highly skilled workers who do excellent quality of work for what the industry needs.



 
Gavin,



I have no doubt that bad companies, run by bad management can benefit from having unions; or should I say that the working conditions and the jobs in general for the working members of the union are better within such companies because of the union.



Furthermore, I don't doubt that there are some towns and small cities where the majority of the "good jobs" are with companies that fit this description. Therefore, without the unions, workers in these towns and small cities would have it very rough.



But, call me harsh, call me cold hearted, but I have to ask...



What would happen if there WERE no unions in such towns, with such companies?



Would people work elsewhere?



Would people leave these towns?



Shouldn't people work elsewhere and shouldn't people leave these towns if the employment simply stinks?



Shouldn’t such businesses PAY the ultimate price for not being run properly; that price being that they can't attract and retain employees and thereby go out of business?



Wouldn't such a company going out of business pave the way for new management; new companies; better jobs?



Wouldn't this "survival of the fittest" approach be better, in the long run?



Seems to me that a company that can’t manage its people, can’t provide a good working environment, is likely to also not be able to put out good products and satisfy its customers, and that cleaning the “workers” house is only delaying the inevitable.



P.S. Unions for skilled laborers, wherein the union provides skills training and accreditations is another valuable thing. But it's not what I think of when I think of the UAW, etc. Maybe I should, but that’s not the value proposition I think of when I think of larger unions.



TJR
 
I'm not for or against unions. I was raised in a teamster union family, I remember being on picket lines with family back in the 70's as a kid. I was a union member(not teamster) in a different industry in the past....



With the auto industry companies downsizing to cut cost... I wonder if this was wise to strike. I can also understand the reason why the union/workers would want to...but...:unsure:



If companies hired on Good leadership members and the company had policies and standard business practises in place for advancements and raises, and if those companies upheld those practises and ensured their management team is doing their job, treating folks fair etc... there really would be no need for unions.



I don't think if there was no union that people would just up and move away. Keep in mind, unionized companies have and will contiinue to move their businesses to cut costs aka "bust" unions and hire for half the cost . To the new employees of these companies that do this ..it is welcomed employment, and companies still get loyal employees.



I worked for a company, that had unionized call centers in other states, my work was in a non unionized call center. We carried the company solely for a few years and proved ourselves time and time again, company wide we were known as the back bone of the company. It was not our performance that caused the "business decision"



Being non union did not save our jobs, nor did being union save the jobs of our counter parts in various states were union was very strong. The company still moved all of our jobs to a different state, where we do not even service our products, and hire for less wages. I want to add the company was fair to all of us in my opinion, because they could have just kicked us all to the curb and let us fin for ourselves, they held a job fair for us, had a businesses come in to help with resume and letter writing, offered support and really did their best to help us deal with the pending loss of our jobs, They allowed us to use company time to seek employment and reserch the job market on company computers.

BUT union folks had a different severence packages than the non union folks. Was it the union that created the unfairness? Or was it the company? I don't need an answer, just stated the question to ponder. I have no ill will at all. I could not have ask for a better employer.



A solid company is only as good as the leadership they have and in-turn, good leadership makes loyal employees and happy ones too, and a happy employee produces quality work. because they want to.



just things to ponder...

 
There is more to stake than survivial of the fittest in business. Sure it is easy to say when we are not the one that has anything to lose. Family farms gone. Is that good for us? Ghost towns? Is that good for any of us? When a town dies, the rest of the state suffers.



We all like to have vacation time. It is nice to collect pay while sunning our buns on some beach or ski in some mountains. It is nice to know if we get sick, we have protection. All those things were not brought to us because the company we work for decided it was best in their intrest to give it to us.



No union allows a company to do anything they want. A union there, as Gavin said, brings structure to a business. The contract is a rule book. If I fight at work, I get fired. Not if the boss's buddy fights they look the other way. He will lose his job too. Why? Because the contract says if you fight, you lose your job.



It also says that I, in my job description, am not allowed to do plumbing work or weld. Why? Because it is in bothe the companies and my best intrest to let me do my job and the other guy do his job. I know my job and I know my job well. I might know how to plumb, but I am not a plumber nor do I try to be.



Simply put, the unions are there as a service to everyone of us whether we like it (or think it) or not. Vacation time, sick pay, holidays, retirement, medical benefits, and work hours were all trickle down benifits to non-union workers.



We are having contract negotians at work right now and I have heard some interesting things I can not speak of. It would be interesting to compare some stuff, but I need to keep my mouth shut.





Tom
 
I guess, simply put, the idea to let a company put itself out of business is a novel idea.



Standing up for yourself and taking control of your future is a better idea. Some may say moving to a different part of the country for better work is the right way.



I say standing up and joining a union to get better working conditions, better work hours, better benefits, etc. is also a way of taking control of your life while still being able to keep your home.



It is like living in a good neighborhood that turns bad. Do you sell your house (if you can) and live somewhere else, or do you get involved and take your neighborhood back?





Tom
 
Great posts... found it interesting, and I really dislike politics lol



No matter if you are union or not.... there are those that will make things happen for themselves and those that let things happen to themselves.



Free will. We all have that choice.



Have a Grand day! :)
 

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