OT: What $1.2 Trillion Can Buy

[Josh Langel]

Iraq war... freedom... protection for America. What a freakin joke!



Sounds like Bush’s Propaganda have worked on some.



First. Saddam Hussein was not a good person, but I am lead to believe he was more isolated in the end... meaning his influence and government wasn't effecting much on the world.



Second. Bush called three nations the axes of evil... 1) Iraq- weapons never found, but we went to war. 2) Iran- blatant disregards for America, and has nuclear ambitions (Iraq- no weapons found). 3) North Korea- tested a nuclear device, has the means of launching an attack, and has a country where work camps exist (much like the ones the Nazi's used).



Now, people claim we are setting an example by attacking Iraq and "liberating" its people. I think we have set an example for the world. Just ask the Koreans, the North in particular. Do they want the US in their country to liberate them? Hell no. They see what we have done in Iraq and don't want that kind of mess over there.



Three. We're dealing with a country with a history so deep (in the 1000+years), far beyond out 232years of existence, that we cannot go in and change it over night. We're dealing with religion, tribes.... NOT just political parties.



So, we've taken out Saddam... stopped the world from ending because nothing major has happened since, but is it worth us to over extend our military in a time where we have two countries on the verge of launching a nuclear strike?



Another thing that should worry us. Major commanders, including Sec. of state, Sec. of Defense, ect.. have quit their jobs (by public demand or personal issues). In a time of such crisis, isn't it scary that we're losing top military officials? HINT: OUR PLAN ISN'T WORKING.



But, we've saved the world by setting such a great example.



Then, you get those that think it has been worth every man to go and take out Saddam... but we've let Osama Bin Laden slip through and now we're basically given up (or in any case, pushed him aside).



Bush got his war. He'll retire to his ranch in Texas and live out his days cutting wood, while in the meantime, the world and America will be trying to combat a war he proclaimed was "mission accomplished" only months after it started.



Bush is a joke. Good luck to the next guy... I feel really safe now that we're too busy in Iraq to take on a real threat.



Hip! Hip! Hurrah!!

 

[Robert Poole]

[Broken External Image]:

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

isn't it scary that we're losing top military officials

I'll remind you that they are politicans. Nixon quit as president too, don't forget. Politicans leave office when in the line of fire.

Iraq war... freedom... protection for America. What a freakin joke

Glad you think so. Why don't you ask a soldier what they think. I have relatives that are getting ready for their 5th deployment to the sandbox, 4 of whice were voulentary. I guess they think it's a joke as well.



The biggest problem that the US has in Iraq is the Polticians, Lawyers and Media. If we could untie the hands of our professionals and let them do their freaking job, we could be done. But no. We have the ilk of Pelosi, McCain, Kennedy and Kerry constantly badgering the military and putting more and more political requirements on them (no fighting in Mosques, even if that's where they are shooting from, no fights in cemetaries, even if that's where they are shooting from, etc).



Then we have the media giving daily body counts. They never tell about the schools that are open. The girls that are getting educated. The fact that we did remove several tons of nerve gas and other WMD's from Iraq. The fact that Bagdad now has power to nearly every home (something Saddam was not intending to do).



Most of the insurgents are Iranians, Iranian trained or Iranian equipped. The military has captured several dozen Iranian military members in Iraq to proove the point.



A higher percentage of the Iraqi population voted in their last elections than American's in our last election. I guess that's not changing anything either.

but we've let Osama Bin Laden slip through

I wouldn't bet on that. More than likely he is at least cornered in one small section of the world. At best, he's dead and we don't have the proof of it yet. Do you know how many caves have been hit with bunker-buster bombs in the last 5 years? When was the last time we got a new tape that was confirmed to be that waste of humanity?

 

[Josh Langel]

Why don't you ask a soldier what they think. I have relatives that are getting ready for their 5th deployment to the sandbox, 4 of whice were voulentary. I guess they think it's a joke as well.

No, I bet all the soldiers in Iraq think we should be there. I am sure that if were to ask all the soldiers they would agree that we should have taken out Iraq instead of going after the real threat.



I admire the fact that people can have a loyalty and dedication to a cause, but unfortunately, Iraq is the wrong cause right now.



And still find fighting in Iraq is rediculous. I support the soldiers, but that's as far as I can go with this conflict.



God bless them.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Why was it wrong? Because the UN said so? They gave Saddam 14 chances. The 14th stated there would be consequences. Appearantly the consequences would be more resolutions.



Let me ask you this.... who said that "Iraq was a clear and present danger."



Bush?



Cheney?



Rumsfield?



No, no and no.

John Edwards. During an interview on CNN's "Late Edition" February 24, 2002.



Here's some more doosies for you:

"Every nation has to either be with us, or against us. Those who harbor terrorists, or who finance them, are going to pay a price."

Senator Hillary Clinton (Democrat, New York)

September 13, 2001

"Saddam Hussein certainly has chemical and biological weapons. There's no question about that."

Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi (Democrat, California)

During an interview on "Meet The Press"

November 17, 2002

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."

Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi (Democrat, California)

Statement on US Led Military Strike Against Iraq

December 16, 1998

"In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now -- a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.



If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program."

President Clinton

Address to Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pentagon staff

February 17, 1998

"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat to the United States and to our allies.



If Saddam persists in thumbing his nose at the inspectors, then we're clearly going to have to do something about it."

Howard Dean, Democratic Presidential Candidate

During an interview on "Face The Nation"

September 29, 2002

WESLEY CLARK: He does have weapons of mass destruction.



MILES O'BRIEN: And you could say that categorically?



WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely.



MILES O'BRIEN: All right, well, where are, where is, they've been there a long time and thus far we've got 12 empty casings. Where are all these weapons?



WESLEY CLARK: There's a lot of stuff hidden in a lot of different places, Miles, and I'm not sure that we know where it all is. People in Iraq do. The scientists know some of it. Some of the military, the low ranking military; some of Saddam Hussein's security organizations. There's a big organization in place to cover and deceive and prevent anyone from knowing about this.

Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate

During an interview on CNN

January 18, 2003

"I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein. And when the president made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him."

Senator John Kerry (Democrat, Massachusetts)

During a Democratic Primary Debate at the University of South Carolina

May 3, 2003

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed."

Senator Edward Kennedy (Democrat, Massachusetts)

Speech at Johns Hopkins Sc

 

[Tom Schindler]

The WMD's were not found. Sadaam is gone.



Why are we still there?





Tom

 

[Josh Langel]

Why was it wrong? Because the UN said so? They gave Saddam 14 chances. The 14th stated there would be consequences. Appearantly the consequences would be more resolutions.



Let me ask you this.... who said that "Iraq was a clear and present danger."



Bush?



Cheney?



Rumsfield?

Um, so since when are we the UN? What happened to procedure?



YES, Bush and his administration said so.



Whatever. We were deceived and that's just it. We were lied to. If you accept that fact and still feel comfortable about it was okay then I say we're in trouble.



I'm sure Hitler's first lie wasn't a big deal either.



And yes, I can make some comparisons... just depends on what you believe and if you take the word of the government as fact.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I love it when the well scripted, well-rehearsed rhetoric from both sides gets repeated by the people. (almost said "sheeple", but I held back. )

 

[Tom Schindler]

Uhhhhh...why do you think we're still there? You think maybe now that the troops have done away with Saddam, maybe they're all on vacation or something? Why don't you take a guess as to why they're still there. Cmon, I wanna hear what you have to say. Hell you can't even spell Saddam and you think you know anything about what's going on.

Oh Q, you rule. You rock the world.



Tell me everything you know. I have a few minutes that I am not busy. That should be more then enough time.





Tom

 

[Tom Schindler]

I guess I was right. 5 minutes was more then enough time to tell me what you know.





Tom

 

[Tom Schindler]

Ohh, I am scared. My last chance...and then what?





Tom

 

[Tom Schindler]

Oh, OK. You win Q. You rule. You are the coolest person here.



A legend in your own mind.





Tom

 

[Josh Langel]

Hey Q, why not give us your opinion. Caymen has. I have. But, you have yet to give us yours.



Why not go back and "edit" your last four posts and turn them into something more thought provoking than a bunch of random sarcasm that truly doesn't intimidate anyone.



Go ahead, push "edit" next to each one, delete what you copy and pasted (or spued from your mouth) and tell us something that really will change our minds, not further our conclusion that your just an ass.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Whatever. We were deceived and that's just it. We were lied to. If you accept that fact and still feel comfortable about it was okay then I say we're in trouble.

So I guess that Bill Clinton was deceived. The UN was deceived. I guess England, France, Germany, Japan and Russia were all decieved since before GWB took office they all said that Saddam had chemical weapons and nuclear aspirations along with resources.



I guess we were all deceived by the images of the mass killing of the Kurds by chemical weapons that Saddam ordered done.



Amazing how all of this occured prior to 2000 as well.



I guess we were deceived wnough in 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, etc to lob cruise missles into Iraq... oh wait. That was because Mr. Clinton could only get it up when he was fighting with someone other than his "wife"....



Remember, chemical weapons were found in Iraq.

"Since 2003, Coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent," said an overview of the report unveiled by Senator Rick Santorum and Peter Hoekstra, head of the intelligence committee of the House of Representatives.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/22/060622055545.07o4imol.html

 

[Josh Langel]

Saddam had chemical weapons and nuclear aspirations along with resources.

Then I assume we should attack every country with "nuclear aspirations" and chemical weapons?



We should give Kim Jung Il 48 HRS to get out of his country.



How about Iran? 48HRS or more?



Pakistan?



Israel?



No, instead, we target Saddam and claim it's due to a national threat ... hence on the nukes and WMDs we found...



Hell, our government can't even get updated pictures of missile sites in Iraq, yet they can read your license plate from space. Whatever. Bush had a personal vendetta with Saddam because of his Daddy.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Two conditions need to exist before something is a threat. One is that the entity has the motivation or will to do harm. The second is that they have the capability to do harm. Several nations want to do harm, but don't have the capabilities. The goal since the beginning of the Cold War is to prevent proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Gradually, a few countries have snuck into the "Club".



There are also special cases, like N. Korea. They claim they want to do us harm, but the reality seems to be that they just want us to accept them and provide aid. According to the news, they have limited capability to do us harm directly, but through S. Korea they could have a huge impact on us.



Of course, we cannot do anything about it, since the Chinese Army stands ready to pounce on us if we make a mistake. This is even more worrisome given the massive military modernization going on. This is fueled by the economic boom that is going on there as a result of China's "democratization" of its economy. China is no longer a truly Communist country, because of its free market economy. Their economy is generating a huge budgetary surplus, which gives them money to invest in modern weapons.



The past 50 years we have encouraged them to make these reforms, and now the result is that it is biting us in the butt. In the long run, it would have been better for them to stay pure Communist. The Chinese Army has about 2.3 Million soldiers. We only have 300 Million in our entire country. There are 1.3 Billion Chinese. They have 1 Billion more people than us to build supplies and weapons. We'd have to let all of South America move in with us to have that many workers.

 

[Rick Kent]

We'd have to let all of South America move in with us to have that many workers.

It's a good thing we have gotten off to a good start with our Mexican friends.



And here is the obligatory so everyone knows it was meant in humor...



Saving members from panty wads one at a time.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Shut yer mud flap idiot #2.

I have one question. Was Bill Barber as big of a jerk as Q is?



I honestly don't think Bill Barber deserved to be banned compared to the way Q acts and is still around.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

It seems even Bush is conflicted about the Iraq war:



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[Tom Schindler]

Bush is even conflicted on what his name is. :lol:





Tom