Prayer in School

[Gerry Mac]

This is NOT intended to incite a riot.....just interesting that's all.







Now I sit me down in school

Where praying is against the rule

For this great nation under God

Finds mention of Him very odd.



If Scripture now the class recites,

It violates the Bill of Rights.

And anytime my head I bow

Becomes a Federal matter now.





Our hair can be purple, orange or green,

That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.

The law is specific, the law is precise.

Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.



For praying in a public hall

Might offend someone with no faith at all

In silence alone we must meditate,

God's name is prohibited by the state.



We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,

And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.

They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.

To quote the Good Book makes me liable.





We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,

And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.

It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,

We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.





We can get our condoms and birth controls,

Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.

But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,

No word of God must reach this crowd.





It's scary here I must confess,

When chaos reigns the school's a mess.

So, Lord, this silent plea I make:

Should I be shot; My soul please take!





Amen!

 

[EddieS'04]

Gerry, that rings so true..My wife is an elemetary teacher. She makes it known her faith. She has her own personal Christian Icons around the classroom and a Bible on her personal bookshelf..As the the school year progresses, she is amazed at how many students come to her for prayer or to find out something about God and Jesus..There are so many kids in the public schools that are hungry, for faith and hope or to just express, thier belief in God..despite what others say...

 

[Chet 02]

[Broken External Image]:Time for the riot!!!...jking

Very well put...I may have to use it sometime. It makes all the good points.

 

[Jeff C]

I remember in high school we would have a "moment of silence" where you could pray, relax, whatever. It was about 2 minutes, right after morning announcements where everyone had to just be quiet and do what they pleased. At our school there were plenty of Christian clubs, but when some kids tried to start an athiest club, it wasn't allowed, which IMO is not right.



Whatever, I've never seen an athiest kill someone for not believing in the "right" god.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Let's all remember that the Constitution gives us freedom of religion, not freedom "from" religion. Specifically, the first amendment says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...

That seems pretty clear to me. Congress shall pass no laws establishing a religion, nor shall it pass laws that prohibit the free exercise of a religion.



Allowing children to pray in school or to recite the words "under God" in the pledge is NOT a law that establishes a religion. I will repeat...it is NOT A LAW. Allowing those things is instead a tolerance for religion, which is what the founders wanted. However, passing a law that says one CANNOT pray or CANNOT recite those words in the pledge seems clearly to me to be a law that "prohibits free exercise."



So, in a sense those that tout "Separation of Church and State" (btw, there are no such words or even elusions in the Constitution) are the ones clearly being unconstitutional.



Am I WARPED for seeing this issue in this way?



TJR

 

[Dale Carlson]

TJR, based on what I've seen here, you're a lot of things, but "warped"...?:huh:



As far as I know, Congress has made no federal laws prohibiting or proscribing religion in schools.



On the other hand, the Supreme Court, right or wrong, has done plenty. The Supreme 9 were chartered to interpret the Constitution, and try to put into context what the founding fathers (and legislators since then) wrote. You're absolutely correct that the words "Separation of Church and State" don't exist in the Constitution, but the Supremes have consistently found that that is what is meant by that amendment, and what was meant by our nation's founders when it was written.



Anyway, the thing that disturbs me about this poem is that it pre-supposes that it is the school's responsibility to teach our children values that are rightfully taught in the home. The last time I looked, it's the school's responsibility to teach our children a few facts about the world they live in, and more importantly, how to think. It's in the home that children should learn moral values, and yes, religious values (or lack thereof).



Both of my children are grown now, and both are upstanding, moral, and religious adults. They got that way from their parents, their church, and their (parent's choice of) community.



They didn't get that way from going to public schools. Thank God!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

But, Kefguy, isn't Congress supposed to make the laws and isn't the Supreme Court supposed to uphold the laws? When the Supreme Court changes or redefines the meaning of our laws, aren't they legislating from the bench?



TJR

 

[Nelson Atwell]

The Supreme Court interprets the Constitution and the laws which Congress writes. The President through the executive branch approves the laws and enforces them. There's more information at the link.

 

[biznaga]

Only praying I did in school was during tests...that and that the school would burn down.

 

[Dale Carlson]

Two things, TJR.



One, the Constitution is the highest law of the land. It's true that Congress does pass federal laws and those laws apply to and over all 50 states. However, even those laws still have to be legal as far as the Constitution is concerned.



And, two, as far as the Supremes legislating from the bench, IMHO when that happens, and I don't disagree that it doesn't, it's because the Legislative branch (Congress) has abdicated their responsibility in making laws that pass Constitutional muster. Our Representatives and Senators don't really like voting on the really tough issues of the day (pick one). They would prefer to point at the Court as the final arbiters and say oh well, what can we do, they're the Supreme Court...

 

[Roy Smith]

My wife is an 8th grade teacher,has some trouble with students,but mostly with administrators,We do need prayer in schools and armed gruards for the gang wannabes who are trying to earn thier "stripes".The bleeding heart liberals and minority groups have killed Public schools buy "dumbing them down" so we don't have to give them "social promotions". A little Religion might do the Administrators and Gov. officials some good.Teachers should not require combat pay!!!:angry:

 

[Gerald Pierce]

Biz... you are correct, as long as there are tests in school, there will be prayer in school.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Kefguy-



Actually, if congress does not make law on a matter it falls to the states per the constiution. The Supreme Court was established to interpret existing laws and disputes between the states based upon the Constiution (and only the Constiution, not NATO rules, not the UN, not foreign law as has been cited recently by Jstc Bryer et al.). The average everyday citizen was not really supposed to have thier cases before the Supreme Court. Most of the cases were to be State vs State or State vs Feds. It wasn't until the Interstate Commerce act that more and more cases fall under federal jurisdiction.



That's not to say cases like Dread Scott and others were not supposed to go all the way, it was just supposed to be few and far between.



The Supreme 9 has made some attrotious decisions in the past 30 years (actually, you can go even farther back than that). Especially the case on Eminent Domain. That alone shows why there needs to be impeachment power by the people on all courts and judges.



But on Religion.... they've gotten it wrong so many times. The term "Separation of Church and State" comes from the Federalist's Papers. Yes, they were written by Franklin with help from others to show what the different mentality was for several of the different aspects of the Constiution and BOR. However, being that they are not law, I don't believe that they should be cited as such.



What part of "Free Exercise Thereof" is not understood? That is abused as much as the Second's "Shall Not Be Infrindged Upon..." is. But that is another story and another day.

 

[TomT]

Discipline is what they need in schools. Not religion.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

TomT says:

Discipline is what they need in schools. Not religion.

If discipline started at home it wouldn't be needed at school.



I'm not sure if by "discipline" you mean corporal punishment (CP), but that has been removed from most schools (or is it all schools). You have a couple of generations now that have grown up with NO FEAR of discipline. A time-out doesn't sting like a swift smack on the bottom.



TJR

 

[Jenn D]

Discipline is what they need in schools. Not religion.

Amen!!! :lol::lol::huh:

 

[Dallas Starr]

I agree with TJR



especially with the discipline starting at home, I am a 26 year old single father and I can not believe the lack of discipline parents have out there and then they "can't control" there kids anymore. Thats not the kids fault or anyone elses other than that of the parents. If they raised their kids with discipline, respect and good moral you should not have anything to worry about an trust your child will live their life in a manner that would make you happy.

 

[TomT]

If discipline started at home it wouldn't be needed at school.

Couldn't agree more. If one of my kids acted up in school, he/she would be scared to come home but unfortunately many parents don't discipline their kids anymore. In the old days (I hate to sound like an old fart, but I am) we were scared to death of getting in trouble at school. We would get punished at school (swats) and then again at home. Damn ACLU has made it impossible for schools to punish kids anymore and many of todays parents are totally worthless.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

No one is looking to force religion, munt, quite the contrary. People are looking for religious tolerance. If one has to be segregrated and shunned in order to make a simple observance then were is the freedom?



You say "to each their own", but clearly, you don't mean that, for if you did, then Johnny would be able to say "Under God" in class without an uproar by some.



I agree with much you say about religions having bloody histories, but the same can be said about almost any race or country at one time or another. Does that mean we don't allow Germans in schools because of what Hitler once did? Of course not.



Tolerance and love, that's the key. And, yes, that means if someone wants to read the Koran in a public school then I am all for it.



TJR

 

[WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs]

A time-out doesn't sting like a swift smack on the bottom.

Very true! But taking away the computer and cell phone straightens them right up...LOL