Rose's 500

[LaRue Medlin]

We bought her 500 in April 07 and have done nothing but oil and tires. 90K on the speedo... Her A/C wasn't cooling so I went to Ford to check/recharge it. The said it needed a pound of freon. They recharged it, no change... So the said they had to replace the a/c expansion valve. Does $310 sound fair. $65 for the valve, $245 labor???????? Not bad for 5 years.... Looks as good as the day we got her..







[Broken External Image]:

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Though it is a chunk of change, the money sounds right.



It takes expensive equipment and probably 1.5 to 2 hours to do the job.

 

[Tom Schindler]

My expension valve was clogged on my Trac. I replaced it myself. Valve was 7 bucks and took 30 seconds. Of course, I have my own AC equipment so the price is much less.





Tom

 

[EddieS'04]

I didnt know any auto's used exspanion valves anymore. All I have delt with for years were orfices...

 

[Tom Schindler]

Eddie,



They are talking about the same thing... I have never called them orifaces, always valves.





Tom

 

[EddieS'04]

Tom,

I first learned auto AC in the '60s. Summer work with GF's dad. Installing aftermarket and repairing. All cars back then used a valve. I remember some of the Gm's. We had to pull the right fender off of some to replace the oem valve. Caddys were the hardest. Was called an exsapnsion valve. Now they are a sreened fixed size orfice. Slips inside of the evap tubing.

They started this, when r-12 was still in use.

Through out the years I have learned more from freinds in the bussiness.

Maybe some have gone back to the valves. IDK, for sure. Just haventseen one in ages.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Eddie,



That is what I was saying. My parents have a motorhomw, but people call them Winnebago's. We ask for a Kleenex, though we really don't care about the name brand, we just need facial tissue. If we have a DOHC (or SOHC) engine and complain that our valve cover is leaking, we actually mean the cam cover is leaking. Cars don't have trunk lids, they are really deck lids.



See what I am saying? Things change, but in the end we call them what we call the regardless of their official name.





Tom

 

[EddieS'04]

Tom,

I understand where your comming from. Im old school so I refer to an exspansion valve as one. Because it regulates its restriction. A fixed orfice cant. It is fixed.

Besides it is the intrument tech in me.

I have worked on anyhydrous amonnia storage systems controls. They are nonthing more than a refridgerent system. We tried orfices. Exspansion valves worked best. our purpose was to keep , the 80,000 metric ton storage tank pressure below 1 psig.



I could get me a black cat that looks like PE-PEE-La-Pue. But I wont name him skunk or pass him off as one.



So in this area we can agree to disagree. For me the 2 are not interchangable in name. For me pupose is the same. Functionaly are different. Also I believe exspanion valves work better. Orfice was a cost cutting issue. They plug up more often than a regulating valve.



Peace...

 

[LaRue Medlin]

Well $300 later the problem is NOT fixed. Driving down the road it's nice and cold. Stop at a light,,, slightly cool...... BUT, I can turn the A/C button on and off, and it seems to be a little cooler. It is still not like it was 2 weeks ago. We could sit at a traffic light for an hour and never get hot. Heck, there are times when I sit in my van working for an hour or two and never run out of cold air... Back to Ford..............

 

[Tom Schindler]

Sounds like you have an issue with your condensor. I would not be happy right now. You spent the money to fix a problem they say was there, but it was't.



This is exactly why I do my work myself. I am fully able of doing something wrong. I refuse to pay someone to do it wrong.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

LaRue,



That's the beauty of trying to fix complex systems. Invariably it is often a trial and error process.



Now, with that said, paying labor and parts cost to replace parts that may or may not be bad is somewhat hard to accept. Even harder for me to accept is being charged multiple diagnostic fees, one each time until the problem gets fixed. Essentially, I flat out REFUSE to pay diagnostic fees more than once, and I look for a break on labor whenever I need a followup like you are about to get to fix a problem.



They way I see it it takes real balls to try to get me to pay inflated costs for parts, and then pay for them to be installed WHEN that ultimately is show that it doesn't fix the problem. It is insult to injury if the service depart wants to keep doing that, along with charging repeated diags fees, until they get the problem resolved.



The last time this happened I asked the service dept manager for:



"no additional diagnostic fees to be charged, and 50% refund on all prior labor charges."



To which the service dept manager laughed out loud and said:



"We can't do that!",



I countered with:



"That's okay. I'll just park my car in the breakdown lane in front of your store, put its hood up, and put a big sign on the door that says: 'I was charged by this dealer for repairs that did not fix my car!",



I said that as I was walking away. Of course, he said "Wait a minute..." and then we made a deal.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

That's the beauty of trying to fix complex systems. Invariably it is often a trial and error process.

Personally, I don't consider an A/C System very complex. It is a simple process of converting a gas to a liquid and then that liquid back to a gas.



I refuse to pay to R&R (Remove & Replace) the job until they find the problem.





Tom

 

[scott degroot]

$245 in labor....goodlordythatalotomoney. Book time is less than an hour and I don't charge customers that becasue it is sooooo easy on this vehicle. If that's the only labor charge on the ticket then the refrigerant was definetely not free..they just hid the cost elsewhere. Only other reason for the high labor charge would be is if they charged you for evacuating and recharging the system but they shouldn't of becasue they already had to pull out what was in the system to tell you how low you were

 

[LaRue Medlin]

We took the car back in this AM,,, they just called and said the compressor has metal shavings in it (???????) and needs to be replaced. 900$..............<font size="20">RAPE !!!!!</font>

 

[Richard L]

LaRue,

Hmmmm??? I did not reply to your initial post but was suspicious that there was probably something else wrong.



They just replaced the expansion valve for $310 which is basicly a restriction nozzle that turns the liquid refrigerant into a gas just before it goes into the evaporator core to cool the car. If there are metalic shavings or any contamitation solids in the system, that is where will get trapped, partially clogging the nozzle which causes poor cooling.



A few years back, some vehicles were putting teflon coatings in their AC compressors to reduce friction. Problem was that the teflon was flaking off even easier and clogging the expansion valves. The fix was non-teflon compressors and cleaning/flushing out the entire system.



It sounds like they just replaced the expansion valve and never even looked at it, even though expansion valve failures are most often caused by debris or contamination in the system? That's not to say that Ford did anything to damage the compressor, but if they checked, they would have discovered that the compressor was bad and caused the expansion valve failure. Both needed to be replaced the first time. That would have saved you some of the labor costs of recharging the system again and a trip back to the dealer.



You might be able to negotiate a lower price since they did not completely diagnose the problem since the bad expansion valve should have tipped them off that something was wrong.



You might want to check with an independent AC shop and see what they would charge...I'm sure it would be cheaper than Ford's $900 quote, unless you can get Ford to knock off a few hundred for labor they gouged you for to recharge the system when they replaced the expansion valve.



...Rich

 

[LaRue Medlin]

Richard, just got back from Ford,, they are going to knock off 150$ from Friday because they admit they should have caught the problem. I "kinda" have top take it to Ford because I have an business account there and don't have the funds to take it anywhere else. Dammed if I do, Dammed if I don't.......... Should be ready by 5:30. I hope.......... I could stand the heat if it were my van, but it's Rose's car,,, homie can't play that........:cry:

 

[Roger Batts]

LaRue, I know what you mean. Gotta keep Momma happy! :driving: That said, many of the newer Fords have an expansion valve instead of an orifice tube. It just depends on which design is more efficient and convenient for the way the vehicle is built. It seems that Ford's engineers are starting to listen to the technicians that have to work on the vehicles. I used to say that an automotive engineer's punishment should be to work on the cars they designed that nobody can fit their mitts under the hood!

 

[Richard L]

LaRue,

Now that they found the shavings in the Compressor, that means they will again have to replace the expansion valve since it too has been contaminiated with the metal shavings. Just a heads up for you to be sure that they replace the expansion valve and flush the entire system to be sure there are no metal shavings left in the system.



Good luck and I hope this fixes your problem.



...Rich

 

[LaRue Medlin]

Well, they took off the 300$ from Friday's bill,, but it still ended up costing me 1150$. But that is better than 1450$.... Rose picks her car up at lunch. Let's hope this fixed it...........





Richard, they replaced the expansion valve again with the new one that came in the compresser package....

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I know that there are those that will say that AC repair should not be that costly, the systems aren't that complex, etc, but I will tell you that my experience with 5 or 6 year old vehicles (or older) is that I have to put between $400 to $900 every couple of years to keep the A.C. running cold. Typically what has happened is that different seals, sub-parts, etc, get replaced, one at a time, a few at a time, a few years at a time.



I don't know enough about AC to know for SURE if I am getting screwed, but chronic AC problems on older vehicles have been a major reason for buying a new car for us, in the past.



TJR