Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the site...BTW, I saw an FJ at the mall the otherday. Like Toyo or not, you have to say one thing, they have "interesting" styling.
Selling the Trac...already purchased replacement...
- Thread starter Michael Strachan
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I have driven the competition. I m not impressed. I hve driven a Pontiac Vibe (same as a Matrix) Ho hum. I have driven a Toyot Tacoma...actually two of them. Both were amazed at the "build quality" with the cracked dashboard and falling off buttons on the HVAC controls. I was not impressed. If that is what everyone calls quality, I will stick to my junk.
Tom
Tom
Fer Echegaray
Well-Known Member
There's an FJ here in the company's parking lot... Not my cup of tea, but interesting nonetheless
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen, quality is mostly perception, and perception is subjective. Many have said it here and I will say it again; the perception is that Toyota is better quality than Ford, and that perception starts with no-hassle service calls, and a general lower cost of incident of repairs, especially post-warranty. Your mileage may vary, but the general perception defines the reality.
TJR
TJR
TJR,
So what you are saying is the Darin thinks his Matrix is great when it actually isn't. Now that makes sense. LOL J/K
Off to work.
Tom
So what you are saying is the Darin thinks his Matrix is great when it actually isn't. Now that makes sense. LOL J/K
Off to work.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
>> So what you are saying is the Darin thinks his Matrix is great when it actually isn't. Now that makes sense.
Not even worth a rebuttal, other than to say that my #1 peet peeve in online fora is when someone says
"So you are saying A", followed by a patting themselves on the back in the form of an "LOL" or an "ROTFL", all when I clearly NEVER SAID A.
However, to be fair, Caymen, in case I confused you, what I was saying was:
Quality is subjective. Those things that are subjective are defined by our perception, and therefore quality being one of those things is, in reality, defined by people's perceptions and opinions. This is how the majority view/opinion/perception is that Toyota delivers higher quality than Ford has arisen. You disagree, but you can't discount the reality that you are in the minority.
TJR
Not even worth a rebuttal, other than to say that my #1 peet peeve in online fora is when someone says
"So you are saying A", followed by a patting themselves on the back in the form of an "LOL" or an "ROTFL", all when I clearly NEVER SAID A.
However, to be fair, Caymen, in case I confused you, what I was saying was:
Quality is subjective. Those things that are subjective are defined by our perception, and therefore quality being one of those things is, in reality, defined by people's perceptions and opinions. This is how the majority view/opinion/perception is that Toyota delivers higher quality than Ford has arisen. You disagree, but you can't discount the reality that you are in the minority.
TJR
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Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
TJR,
It's probably better to say it simply, "Different Stokes for different folks". If people all wanted the same vehicle, then we all would still be driving Model T's, painted Flat Black.
It's probably better to say it simply, "Different Stokes for different folks". If people all wanted the same vehicle, then we all would still be driving Model T's, painted Flat Black.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
I agree with that Nelson, and yes, preferences are often subjective too. I bought a ST instead of a Tacoma king cab for ONE MAJOR REASON...the ST was cheaper! People buy things for various reasons.
Most are comfortable enough not to rationalize our choices. I don't presume for a minute that I bought the ST due to "Ford's Quality". And, I love the truck now that I have it. But I recognize the reasons I bought it.
Some people simply can't be critical of certain aspects of their "favorites", or complementary of aspects of the "competitors". I find that very odd and it reminds me the way I used to feel about sports teams when I was a pre-teen. The players on my favorite team were all great, never made mistakes, and the other teams, well they all stunk!
Sooner or later you grow past that (or most do) and recognize there is good and bad in all, and that when a LOT of people feel a certain way about one aspect of one team/mfgr or another, there probably is some merit there (for instance...The Yankees, in their hayday, weren't ALL bad, BUT SOME JUST HATED THEM!).
TJR
Most are comfortable enough not to rationalize our choices. I don't presume for a minute that I bought the ST due to "Ford's Quality". And, I love the truck now that I have it. But I recognize the reasons I bought it.
Some people simply can't be critical of certain aspects of their "favorites", or complementary of aspects of the "competitors". I find that very odd and it reminds me the way I used to feel about sports teams when I was a pre-teen. The players on my favorite team were all great, never made mistakes, and the other teams, well they all stunk!
Sooner or later you grow past that (or most do) and recognize there is good and bad in all, and that when a LOT of people feel a certain way about one aspect of one team/mfgr or another, there probably is some merit there (for instance...The Yankees, in their hayday, weren't ALL bad, BUT SOME JUST HATED THEM!).
TJR
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
Don't you know that doesn't matter, Scott?
Everything you own could be made over seas or by a "foregin" company, just so long as you drive a "Domestic"; it's all good.
Everything you own could be made over seas or by a "foregin" company, just so long as you drive a "Domestic"; it's all good.
TomT
Well-Known Member
Sure it's subjective. I know proud Doge/Chrysler owners. But for every one of them thats not had a problem with their vehicles, I know five who has had many, many problems. So you can't go by one persons opinion. So far I haven't had any problems with the Trac other then the cheap oem shocks and brakes Ford put on them but I only have 45K. Will it give me another 100k without major problems? My wife's Expedition I just got rid of was great the first 100K, but I spent a lot of money on it after that. Todays vehicles SHOULD get 150-200k trouble free miles.
Is there one built in the USA?
A few years back, we got a new VCR. The one we got was made in Japan. Why? Japan builds better electronics then China does..that is why. There was none we could find that was built in the USA, so we chose the Japanese one.
TJR, It was a joke. Perception dictates what we think of something. If we buy a car thinking it is junk and lasts us 100,000 miles...we got the only good one. If we buy soomething we think is good, but dies at 50,000 miles, we got the only bad one.
A friend of our family traded his 1982 Toyota on a new one. He was so proud that it lasted 24 years. It had less then 100,000 miles on it. He kept it parked in a heated garage. Was it a good car? My brothers Explorer is a 1999 with 150,000 miles on it. Sure it isn't 24 years old, it is only 7 years old. It gets parked outside in the cold rain, sleet, snow, hail, wind, and anything else Mother Nature gives us.
Did the Toyota last 24 years because it was built better or was it because it was parked in a heated garage and never driven? Did the Explorer drive more miles because it was just driven more and time hasn't does it's deed?
My uncle has a 1969 Boss 429 with 3,000 original miles. It also gets parked in a heated garage and is worth alot of money. That car is years old. Is that a better car because it is older then the Toyota mentioned above is?
Tom
Consumer Reports says Japanese cares are the best. Consumer Reports also said Cingular Wireless has the most dropped calls.
You can't beleve everything you hear either. Is there a hidden agenda with the "reports" you read and hear? The media says the economy is struggling. Other sources say the opposite.
Who is right? My brothers Explorer says Consumer Reports is wrong. My brothers buddies Toyota says they are wrong too.
Tom
You can't beleve everything you hear either. Is there a hidden agenda with the "reports" you read and hear? The media says the economy is struggling. Other sources say the opposite.
Who is right? My brothers Explorer says Consumer Reports is wrong. My brothers buddies Toyota says they are wrong too.
Tom
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
Likewise it's easy to dismiss any comments Caymen makes regarding other vehicle manufacturers. It's kinda like throwing out the lowest and highest grades on a test. You'll have extremes on either end.
TomT
Well-Known Member
Be sure and let us know when they come out with their own magazine Tom.
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
Think a car is junk, and find normal wear and tear on a USED vehicle, then alas, you must be correct; find anything wrong, and of course, the vehicle really IS junk.
Want proof that Consumer Reports has been found wrong? here it is, then again, I bet I am wrong for posting it.
Tom
Tom
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
[Broken External Image]:
Yet you felt compelled to add to it.
Funny...really funny.
Tom
Funny...really funny.
Tom
Chops
Active Member
Telephia....
Now thats laughable. The only true meaningful RF measurements are made in free space vaccuum or antiechoic tuned chamber.
Trying to compare networks , even the same network, will change from day to day due to external forces at work i.e. sun spot cycles/solar flux index, humidity, temperature, dew point, vegetation moisture content, morphology, topology, etc etc etc
Bottom line their reports are subjective at best, I take them with a grain of salt with the bs meter enguaged.
Now thats laughable. The only true meaningful RF measurements are made in free space vaccuum or antiechoic tuned chamber.
Trying to compare networks , even the same network, will change from day to day due to external forces at work i.e. sun spot cycles/solar flux index, humidity, temperature, dew point, vegetation moisture content, morphology, topology, etc etc etc
Bottom line their reports are subjective at best, I take them with a grain of salt with the bs meter enguaged.
So they are less reliable the Consumer Reports?
Tom
Tom
