Bill Ellis
Well-Known Member
Gavin I apologize for misunderstanding you prior response. And I agree with Bill-V. The answer just might be right here.
Something I'm Pondering -- Need Opinions (Updated)
- Thread starter Nelson Atwell
- Start date
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I faced a somewhat related decision a few years ago. Stay in the military and move a couple of times during my kids HS years or take my chance with more stability on the civilian side. Neither offers any guarantee, but I got out and it has worked out well so far. Not an easy decision by any stretch and I had only 12 years in. Now I'm attempting to finish up the 20 via reserves. For what's it's worth, I have had quite a few 20 year retirees tell me they wish they had given their kids stability during the HS years, a place to call home. I certainly don't have an answer for you, but I hope you can think it through and make a decision you're comfortable with.
Mark Grumpy
Well-Known Member
Hey Nelson,
how goes it otherwise?? A couple points - the two year commitment is just to get that grade on the retired ID card - your retirement pay is based on the average of your highest 36 monthly base pays. So, to get MAXIMUM retirement bennies, you'd have to stay three years. $1000.00?? Whoa!! At 22 years, based on current rates, E7 retirement is right at $2K.
Make you sure you research the PBD720 initiatives and all the MAJCOM mergers that are in the works - that GS-11 availability the day you are eligible to retire you say (that's a year and a half away) may not be there anymore.
I say stay.
grump
how goes it otherwise?? A couple points - the two year commitment is just to get that grade on the retired ID card - your retirement pay is based on the average of your highest 36 monthly base pays. So, to get MAXIMUM retirement bennies, you'd have to stay three years. $1000.00?? Whoa!! At 22 years, based on current rates, E7 retirement is right at $2K.
Make you sure you research the PBD720 initiatives and all the MAJCOM mergers that are in the works - that GS-11 availability the day you are eligible to retire you say (that's a year and a half away) may not be there anymore.
I say stay.
grump
Dale Carlson
Active Member
Nelson,
It might be hard for most of to say what your heart is saying to you, so here's my take on some of the technical aspects. So you know, I retired a couple of years ago with 26 1/2 as a CMSgt(E-9):
Wow. Way hard to give up that retirement after all of the time you've put in. I can tell you that my retirement pay has allowed me to pursue the career I wanted post-Air Force. I also don't need to take most of the benefits that my current employer offers because of my other retirement benefits.
Well, you don't necessarily need to stay the whole two years. As grumpy pointed out, your high-3 pay factors into your retirement pay - not your retirement grade. A guy who worked for me made SMSgt (E-8 for the rest of you), got the assignment he didn't want, and was geographically separated from his wife and kids for 8-9 months before he decided he'd had enough. The AF let him leave with his rank. Just my way of saying that not everything is cut-and-dried like they like to tell you. Everything's waiverable.
As you said, it's not a done deal. But you can put your resume in the AF system and apply for the job before you actually retire - did you know that? Things are changing all the time, so maybe if you have the time in the next couple of weeks, take a ride over to your friendly neighborhood Transition Assistance office and talk to whoever they have that specializes in federal employment.
Again, go talk to the specialists in Assignments, but I'm thinking that if you did get picked up for MSgt, and did get an assignment next year, that you could still turn down most assignments because you wouldn't have retainability for any of the normal-length tours. And even if they still insisted on giving you an assignment, depending on conditions, you might have up to 7 months to separate (or in your case, retire) if you refused the assignment.
Oh yeah, one important factor you didn't mention - how much time do you have left on your current enlistment?
My best piece of advice? Go talk to the experts and don't take anything that you thought you knew for granted.
Let us know how it goes.
It might be hard for most of to say what your heart is saying to you, so here's my take on some of the technical aspects. So you know, I retired a couple of years ago with 26 1/2 as a CMSgt(E-9):
Wow. Way hard to give up that retirement after all of the time you've put in. I can tell you that my retirement pay has allowed me to pursue the career I wanted post-Air Force. I also don't need to take most of the benefits that my current employer offers because of my other retirement benefits.
Well, you don't necessarily need to stay the whole two years. As grumpy pointed out, your high-3 pay factors into your retirement pay - not your retirement grade. A guy who worked for me made SMSgt (E-8 for the rest of you), got the assignment he didn't want, and was geographically separated from his wife and kids for 8-9 months before he decided he'd had enough. The AF let him leave with his rank. Just my way of saying that not everything is cut-and-dried like they like to tell you. Everything's waiverable.
As you said, it's not a done deal. But you can put your resume in the AF system and apply for the job before you actually retire - did you know that? Things are changing all the time, so maybe if you have the time in the next couple of weeks, take a ride over to your friendly neighborhood Transition Assistance office and talk to whoever they have that specializes in federal employment.
Again, go talk to the specialists in Assignments, but I'm thinking that if you did get picked up for MSgt, and did get an assignment next year, that you could still turn down most assignments because you wouldn't have retainability for any of the normal-length tours. And even if they still insisted on giving you an assignment, depending on conditions, you might have up to 7 months to separate (or in your case, retire) if you refused the assignment.
Oh yeah, one important factor you didn't mention - how much time do you have left on your current enlistment?
My best piece of advice? Go talk to the experts and don't take anything that you thought you knew for granted.
Let us know how it goes.
Paul Maurer 2
Well-Known Member
Tough decisions! I would recommend doing what is best for your daughter, which sounds like staying put if possible. I went to three different high schools due to my Dad's sudden job changes, and that had a negative impact on my confidence and friendships- I went from being a popular leader on the tennis team to an unknown at a rough school. I think that type of transition would be tougher for a girl as well. Now that our oldest son is approaching school age, we are planning to leave Key West so that he and his little brother can have better schools, be close to family and have more cultural exposure. This means I will have to buy or start a practice or become an employee again and leave an oceanfront paradise, but thats life...
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
kefguy and others -- very good info. I have to reenlist or extend either way to get to 20 years. My enlistment expires next year, six months before I can retire.
I haven't found out anything yet on the promotion, but here is what I am thinking about doing:
I take the promotion and reenlist for as many years as I can immediately. I hope for the best, and if I get orders I go ("Service Before Self" -- I keep reminding myself about that Air Force Core Value). I have to stay 18 more months to retire as a TSgt, I understand now that I only have to stay around 24 months (only six extra months) to get the MSgt retirement. As a couple others state, I can boost that pay significantly, if I stay for a full three years.
I will know more about the elimination of my career field at this base by 20 Aug, which is too late to be of any benefit on this decision. If I find out it will be gone, I can volunteer to go to Alaska or Hawaii, which I am allowed to travel with my daughter. I can finish the remaining time I need there, and come back to my home and hopefully a new job in OKC.
Of course, all of this could be a moot point. The Air Force could come out with some new early retirement program with severance packages, which would then make me change my mind. In either case, I am pretty certain I will be around to get that retirement pin and a free flag on my last day of work.
I wish everyone waiting for news on promotions "Good Luck". I will know around 0730 tomorrow morning.
I haven't found out anything yet on the promotion, but here is what I am thinking about doing:
I take the promotion and reenlist for as many years as I can immediately. I hope for the best, and if I get orders I go ("Service Before Self" -- I keep reminding myself about that Air Force Core Value). I have to stay 18 more months to retire as a TSgt, I understand now that I only have to stay around 24 months (only six extra months) to get the MSgt retirement. As a couple others state, I can boost that pay significantly, if I stay for a full three years.
I will know more about the elimination of my career field at this base by 20 Aug, which is too late to be of any benefit on this decision. If I find out it will be gone, I can volunteer to go to Alaska or Hawaii, which I am allowed to travel with my daughter. I can finish the remaining time I need there, and come back to my home and hopefully a new job in OKC.
Of course, all of this could be a moot point. The Air Force could come out with some new early retirement program with severance packages, which would then make me change my mind. In either case, I am pretty certain I will be around to get that retirement pin and a free flag on my last day of work.
I wish everyone waiting for news on promotions "Good Luck". I will know around 0730 tomorrow morning.
Chuck Lake
Active Member
Good luck on the promotion and your decision. Since I'm Guard and AGR and it has been since the late 80s since I had to deal with reg AD stuff... What is the "penalty" if you turn down an assignment. Also... We reach sanctuary after the 18 year point, does that apply to you as well?
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
I've heard rumors of 18-year sanctuary, but never saw it in writing. I will feel better when my separation date is beyond 15 Dec 2007 (my 20-year date). It really doesn't seem like it has been that long already, but some mornings after running 3+ miles with the 20 and 30-something folks in my office, I remember I am getting a little old to be playing these war games (I'm 44).
Mark Grumpy
Well-Known Member
Nelson,
sanctuary is a term used simply to say it takes a higher power to boot you out BEFORE retirement. For active duty, I think it is actually 16 years, at which time you really have to screw up and it takes SECAF approval to boot you. In other words, when it comes to force shaping you are safe and cannot be separated before being retirement eligible.
18 years is for reservists, once they hit that point they can no longer do man days, only traditional reserve time or "call up". That's how the AF keeps reservists from getting 20 years creditable service as quick as AD and keeps them under the AF umbrella, for wartime use, longer. Sneaky huh??
So, any good news this morning??????
grump
sanctuary is a term used simply to say it takes a higher power to boot you out BEFORE retirement. For active duty, I think it is actually 16 years, at which time you really have to screw up and it takes SECAF approval to boot you. In other words, when it comes to force shaping you are safe and cannot be separated before being retirement eligible.
18 years is for reservists, once they hit that point they can no longer do man days, only traditional reserve time or "call up". That's how the AF keeps reservists from getting 20 years creditable service as quick as AD and keeps them under the AF umbrella, for wartime use, longer. Sneaky huh??
So, any good news this morning??????
grump
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Grumpy,
No good news this morning. They handed out two stripes in my office and I didn't get one. I went to lunch with my fiancee and she bought, as a consolation for being passed over again (I was #2 non-selectee the year before last, and #3 non-selectee last year). I discuss with her my idea about getting out to be with her and my daughter permanently. She understands, but thinks I should give it one more shot next year.
I get back to the office, and have an e-mail congratulating me, from a former co-worker who is now the functional manager for my career field at one of the MAJCOMs. I immediately call her, but she is at lunch. While I am waiting for her to call back, another e-mail comes in. This one is from a retired CMSgt I used to work for. I go to tell my Captain what has happened. He walks over to MPF and no one has access to the system that needs to be checked...
Long story short -- I MADE IT!! Somehow my name was not passed down from the Wing to our Group. I didn't know anything for certain until the Wing Commander sent out a e-mail congratulating all of the selectees at 1400 hrs. That gave me only a few minutes to call a few folks, go to an ATM for money to pay for the promotion ceremony at the club, and beat feet to the Base promotion ceremony. Line #657 -- it looks like I'll be wearing SNCO stripes in Aug/Sep. :wub:
No good news this morning. They handed out two stripes in my office and I didn't get one. I went to lunch with my fiancee and she bought, as a consolation for being passed over again (I was #2 non-selectee the year before last, and #3 non-selectee last year). I discuss with her my idea about getting out to be with her and my daughter permanently. She understands, but thinks I should give it one more shot next year.
I get back to the office, and have an e-mail congratulating me, from a former co-worker who is now the functional manager for my career field at one of the MAJCOMs. I immediately call her, but she is at lunch. While I am waiting for her to call back, another e-mail comes in. This one is from a retired CMSgt I used to work for. I go to tell my Captain what has happened. He walks over to MPF and no one has access to the system that needs to be checked...
Long story short -- I MADE IT!! Somehow my name was not passed down from the Wing to our Group. I didn't know anything for certain until the Wing Commander sent out a e-mail congratulating all of the selectees at 1400 hrs. That gave me only a few minutes to call a few folks, go to an ATM for money to pay for the promotion ceremony at the club, and beat feet to the Base promotion ceremony. Line #657 -- it looks like I'll be wearing SNCO stripes in Aug/Sep. :wub:
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Dale Carlson
Active Member
Congratulations, Master Sergeant Atwell !!!!
Chuck Lake
Active Member
CONGRATS!
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Congrats, Nelson!
I got to work this morning and found a copy of a memo in my in-basket that said both of my secretaries got promoted yesterday while I was out of the office! Strange things do happen!
I got to work this morning and found a copy of a memo in my in-basket that said both of my secretaries got promoted yesterday while I was out of the office! Strange things do happen!
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Thank you all!
Patrick Wilson
Member
FYI - check to see if the HR office has permission to hire you. There is a hiring freeze for Army civilians, which would allow the HR office to offer a tentative offer. The final offer will have to wait until the supplemental spending bill is approved and signed. The AF may be in the same situation.
