Spinning in the Snow

[Bill Koonce]

We're having our first really effective snowfall of this winter today, and naturally I had to take my Gen2 out for a ride. I was not disappointed!!! In "4x4 Auto"" mode, it hung the tail out in throttle induced oversteer, with the fronts only coming into play as needed.



The faults though are many My first complaint is about a tendency to push rotate into the turn. over an unusually. My first complaint has to do with the tenancy to push (ie. "rotate into") a turn under more than recommended powder levels. I hoped that inducing full 4x4 mode would have resulted in s more predictable steering dynamic.



My second is about the tendency for tor the brakes to lock (ie. ABS), Maybe the tires...





I also noticed a problem with the traction control system that allowed the LR wheel to spin any hint any hint of ABS-based (or any !!!) traction control,



Sny hekp is welcome!

 

[Tim L]

Probably slow down and repeat your tests, they ride nice in the snow, but not invincible

 

[Robert Caffyn]

I agree with Tim. Slow down. The Trac does have a bit of a tendency to want to "push"(sort of go straight) especially if you take your foot off the gas. Gentle power through the turns and it goes great!! I use Bridgestone Blizzaks for the winter and they are remarkable. Bob

 

[ray moyer]

 

[ray moyer]

yep... agreed...



i have a 2 wheel drive and never had a problem in the snow, i drive past the idiots in this town that think cuz they have 4x4 they can do whatever and they are in the ditch... loooosers....



anyway, slow down and you shouldnt have a problem... only time i slide in the snow is when i want to...



and before it comes up, that its due to my tire traction, i have Forteras on my truck with low tread height roughly 4-5/32

 

[Dreman]

I don't have four wheel drive, and I drive accordingly. I usually think twice about going into places that I might get stuck, and watch those with four wheel drive wade right in and get stuck instead! I have no doubt that four wheel drive gives you more ultimate traction. But it's not going to give the traction that some think it will.



It looks to me like you are just trying the truck out to see what it will do so you know how it will react when things go bad. I like that idea, and play around like that myself. But our ST's are a compromise, like almost all cars on the road, and do some things better than others. There are probably ways to "tune" your Trac to suit your driving style a little better. After all, that's what the aftermarket is for! Ford gives us the "it does most things ok" starting point, and we then have to take it the rest of the way to perfection (or as close as we can make it) ourselves. Personally, I'm pretty cheap, and simply adjust my driving habits to match the capabilities of the truck, but you may wish to spend the time and money to adjust the truck to match your driving.:driving:

 

[Bill Koonce]

Right. Ever since high school driving school, I was encouraged to find a safe place and explore the limits of my vehicle, to get an idea of what I can and can't do in an emergency. I especially like to do this in snow, because it seems that each snowfall has its own personality. Once I'm on the road, common sense and restraint is the rule. I'm still getting used to the ways that AdvanceTrac RSC kicks in during normal driving, though.



I'm pretty happy with the ability to "tuck in" to a turn by adding a little throttle, if the ST gives any hint of understeering into the next lane during a sharp right turn in fresh snow. This is second nature to me, a lifetime RWD driver. I can accomplish the same thing by increasing steering input alone, but the combination maneuver feels more secure to me.



The last time I spent much time driving a 4x4 (P/T & F/T) was in the late '70s, and I'm getting used to the new and different feeling of having various brake calipers kicking in without warning, and often asymmetrically. I'll get used to it soon enough.



My main complaint is really poor braking in one of those left turn lanes that has a concrete island that remains a couple inches wide up to the turning point. It's a great navigation aid under normal circumstances, but when it snows, the plows usually clear only half of the lane. If I stay in the plowed area, I risk a collision with traffic passing to my right. If I move all the way into the turning lane, the ABS kicks in immediately as I brake for the turn, but fails to give any braking action.



I've noticed that during normal driving, that it takes a lot of brake pedal travel, even for ABS, to make the brakes work. Often I'll find myself at a drive-in, and the ST will start to creep forward unless I put the pedal to the floor. Do other Gen2 owners have such a long pedal travel? The dealer says the brakes have plenty of meat left, but I'm worried that I'm not able to command full braking if needed.



I am going to install a Torsen LSD in the rear. IME the Torsen is excellent with uneven side-to-side traction and braking. I'm also thinking about switching to a true winter tire. Can I use 17" rims on my Limited? It came with 18" rims, and IME some premium brake/wheel packages make it impossible to use smaller rims. (e.g. my Mustang's 5-channel ABS / traction control uses larger calipers, and will not take 16" rims) Any advice is very welcome!



I should also mention that I'm running the 93 octane tune with aggressive open loop timing advance and fuel enrichment settings. That's great for freeway passing, but not as helpful in the snow. I'll go back to the 87 octane tune RSN.



Roger that about apparently untrained 4x4 drivers who think that "4x4" == "invincible". :banghead:

 

[Johnny O]

The faults though are many My first complaint is about a tendency to push rotate into the turn. over an unusually. My first complaint has to do with the tenancy to push (ie. "rotate into") a turn under more than recommended powder levels. I hoped that inducing full 4x4 mode would have resulted in s more predictable steering dynamic.

In a 4x4 all of that is normal. The front wheels have to steer as well as apply power and when all the wheels are on a slippery surface the fronts will push simply because there isn't enough traction besides which they are getting pushed from the rear wheels.

My second is about the tendency for tor the brakes to lock (ie. ABS), Maybe the tires...

Exactly. Most Gen 2's came with Goodyear Forteras, mine did, and they were horrible in snow even when new, especially braking. Fortunately they wore out quickly and I got a set of Firestone Destination A/T's that are much better.

 

[Bill Koonce]

Mine came (used) with Falken ZE-912 tires. They have very good ratings (4/5) on the Internet, and have been more than adequate in everything but snow. Maybe it's because I've been spoiled by the Michelin X-Ice tires. Maybe I should get a set of dedicated winter tires.

 

[Johnny O]

I see you live in WI, so dedicated winter tires might be a good idea. I am not familiar with the Falkens, but in snow an A/T is better than an M/T or all-season, although the rubber will not be a winter compound like real snow tires have. I have Bridgestone Blizzaks for my wife's Taurus and it goes as good in snow as my Trac and stops better.

Roger that about apparently untrained 4x4 drivers who think that "4x4" == "invincible".

4x4's GO better in snow than a regular car but do not stop or turn any better than anything else. This inspires overconfidence.

On snow-covered roads in town very often I will switch off the 4wd to turn a corner and then turn it back on after I straighten the wheel. Gotta love electric transfer cases.

Gen 2's have the later model Explorer transfer case with 4-Auto, 4-Hi, and 4-Low. Frankly I don't like it compared to the other Trac and Rangers I used to have. The front axle kicks in and out when the computer detects slippage, long after my brain or right foot detects it. I find it irritating and when there's a lot of snow I just lock it in 4-Hi and turn the traction control off. The vehicle's behavior is more consistent and predictable that way.

We're supposed to get slammed tonight and all day tomorrow.

 

[Bill Koonce]

Yes, I know that 4WD does nothing to help stopping. But my complaint is that my ST's stopping distances in certain snow conditions are FAR worse than those of a RWD car of the same weight. However that car has been shod with the finest "mountain/snowflake" badged snow & ice tires for the last few years, so maybe the tires make all the difference. OTOH I don't want to invest in a new set of winter tires only to find that AdvanceTrac RSC is borking my ABS' stopping ability.



I also wish that my ST had a 2WD setting, but with the tuning profiles that Torrie sent me, the RWD bias is enough that I really don't miss it that much. Power is sent to the front in 10% increments, and it's felt seamless to me. That's not to be confused with when the ABS, traction control, yaw control and/or RSC decides to slam on a front brake for some reason.



I've tried 4-HI, but not with the traction control off. It was worse in turns that way, with lots o' rumbling and grumbling as the brakes dithered about. IIRC it comes back on when you reach 30MPH or so, and can't be set to default off through the OBDII port, like my Mustang's can (pressing the button turns it on and off, but it stays off by default). Having to divert my gaze to find it on the dash, hold the button down for five seconds, and watch the dash for confirmation is a tad more workload than this born-again 4x4 n00b needs for now. But thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try when the controls become more second nature.



This weekend the Madison area got between 8" and 21" with blizzard conditions. Great fun! :driving: