Sputnik Moment

[Kevin Lang]

Honestly, who here believes that our youth even knows what Sputnik was? Maybe 1%?



I find it a tad ironic that the man who gimped NASA and space exploration is relying on them for cheap rhetoric for his speech.



Right now we'd have to pay the Ruskies to fix our satellite..."Sputnik moment", :rofl:



BTW, how do the Russians feel about that line?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yeah, I thought the same thing. That reference is a little dated. Barry needs better speech writers.

 

[WILL E]

Well and he claims it was spending on education that got us to the moon first.

 

[Johnny O]

You miss the point. The Russians are Communists. The O-man loves Communists.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Funny how Obama talked about how we have to look past the nation that we were, and that we have to look past the factory jobs and towards jobs requiring higher education and degrees; degrees and jobs that mostly foreign nationals are here preparing for and then leaving our country once prepared.



I say funny, because he describes the dynamic, the scenario and the problem quite accurately....yet he described no solution, other than to simply try to encourage parents to try to stress the value of higher education to their children.



TJR

 

[Les]

yet he described no solution, other than to simply try to encourage parents to try to stress the value of higher education to their children.

He has no solutions, only dreams and promises he can't keep.



Why stress the value of education to our children, so they can be in debt (student loans) and unemployed, or just unemployed?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Les,



There are jobs out there for those with degrees...especially those that view their higher education as an investment that must show a return.



The science and engineering jobs in this country are almost always available, and they pay well. Their required degrees can be obtained by many universities without going signicantly into debt.



Of course, it does require that parents save some for college, that kids work part time while in high school so they can save for college; that kids get good grades in high school so that they get the best scholarship packages available, etc.



The opportunities are there for those willing to work for them.



TJT

 

[Mike Dziubina]

The opportunities are there for those willing to work for them.

Well put TJR. +1

 

[Kevin Lang]

Honestly, I don't see working in high school putting forth more than a token amount of money to a real college.



Maybe they could get enough to make the loan payments to stave off defaulting until they get a real job, or can elect for loans that don't require payoff until graduation, but paying their own way seems unlikely.



IMO parents shouldn't pay anything for college. Loans and self-finance teach responsibility, and in any case, if the kids default, the parents still have the option to pay. "Something given has no value"



On that,

that kids get good grades in high school so that they get the best scholarship packages available

You and I both know that good grades are no longer enough. To get some of the best scholarships, one must be a minority. Even in non-minority-only scholarships, being a minority has been known to get you a boost on the dole.

("Minority" used sarcastically)

The opportunities are there for those willing to work for them.

Thankfully this is still true. Though science and engineering can always be outsourced. Service jobs will remain here. Cisco can have guys in India create their new router, but it will still take Americans locally to install and maintain them...in what is one of the highest-paying, most BORING jobs ever.

You miss the point. The Russians are Communists. The O-man loves Communists.

That he does, so why does he seek to inspire us by citing a time when America rose up to beat the crap out of the Commies?



Shoot, did Obama even know what Sputnik was before he read the speech? Didn't he spend his formulative years in foreign schooling? So he missed the whole Sputnik fervor anyhow. It's also weird hearing him reference it, when it is older than he is by 4 years.

 

[user 64972]

I remember when I was a kid, laying under the pine trees looking up and watching up in awe as Sputnik went overhead. We liked it but the adults were freaking out that the Russians had a satellite (sp) flying over head.



You'd think Barry would have used the line that it was a "Saturn 5 moment" or a "NASA moment". Certainly a bigger achievement than the Russians IMO! But then, being a semi socialist IMO, Barry most likely admires the Comrades achievements. I work with a Ukranian lady(MD over there) who said during the election that Barry was a socialist. Having spent 40 plus years under the rule of the U.S.S.R., she should know. And that was in Barry's moderate phase.



Very interesting,

'07 ST

 

[Johnny O]

There are jobs out there for those with degrees...especially those that view their higher education as an investment that must show a return.

A guy my wife grew up with retired at 46. We visited him in FL last summer. Beautiful house on the channel, a yacht docked out back (and I do mean a 52' yacht with twin diesels and two bathrooms). He was a plumber. Still owns his company but pays other people to run it.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

KL,



Our son has been working pt jobs since 14. That allowed him ro pay for his own car, pay his own insurance, make his own spending money and save about 10k towards college.



His great grades have helped him to get scholarships that will (so far) cover about 60% of his college costs. Part time jobs, summer jobs, what his parents will help with, and modest loans will cover the rest.



All that and he will attend probably the most costly college in the country starting the fall.



It is hard work, and will continue ro be hard work and sacrifice, but he sees it as an investment.



He will be attending The George Washington University, with a dual major in international affairs and Spanish...with his dream job that of a ambassador, attache' or representative (corporate or government) to a Latin American country, etc.



Tomorrow he competes for the VFW Oratorical Contest. It is because of those in the younger generation, like him, that I still have a lot of hope in and see great promise in this country.



TJR

 

[H D]

I'm biased because my Bachelor's degree is in Political Science, but I would recommend Poli-Sci over International Affairs. With a double major in Spanish, he will have the international part covered and he will be very well prepared for such work, especially if he does a study abroad program (which I can't recommend high enough).



The reason I recommend Political Science is the broader appeal to the public sector, which I may incorrectly assume is his intended field, but also more overlap into the private sector domestically if he is not able to land the dream international job he seeks. In the time after college and while searching for the perfect international job, he may have to work for a private corporation that needs a liason between the government and itself and maybe even one between the corporation and a foreign national government. If he wants to go to law school, any major is fine. I know art majors that went on to law school, lol.



I don't know about GWU, but I was able to take many International Affairs classes that fulfilled POLS coursework, so the the knowledge of international affairs he seeks can still be acquired. Mainly, I mention it because as hard a time as I have had finding meaningful and fulfilling work in my field, my friends who have a degree in IA are having a harder time. I just started back to school to work on a Master's in Public Administration and for me, Political Science was definitely the way to go. Different strokes for different folks, though, obviously.



He sounds smart, responsible, and raised well so I have little doubt he will be successful whichever avenue he chooses. It took me 3 changes in major to find what I really enjoyed. I thought I wanted to be a doctor at one point, hahaha. Chemistry bores the life out of me! A degree from GWU will carry a lot of weight too. I don't know about outside of GA, but my degree from UGA is enough credentials for a lot of people. Btw, UGA's School of Public and Intertnational Affairs is tied in rank at second with the University of Texas and behind Princeton. Things like that don't go unnoticed within a field. Name recognition will mean a lot! I'm just glad I got a near Princeton level education for a fraction of the cost!



Just my unsolicited .02 cents. Throw it out as necessary.

 

[H D]

Oh, and Obama makes another reference to his love of Communism and lack of U.S. history...nothing new.

 

[Kevin Lang]

IMO even less people would know about the Saturn V rocket.



After nerfing the Orion project, using the Saturn V to further his speech would be even more ironic than talking about how we need to rise to the occasion and "Create NASA", the organization that he helped effectively kill.

Our son has been working pt jobs since 14. That allowed him ro pay for his own car, pay his own insurance, make his own spending money and save about 10k towards college.

All that and he will attend probably the most costly college in the country starting the fall.

That's great that you have inspired some sense of financial responsibility, albeit by furthering what I consider a vile fast food chain IIRC, but this does illustrate what I intended my point to be--all the money that a high school kid can save whilst still acing school is, odds are high, not going to even be a drop in the bucket.



10k...in the grand scheme of tuition to GWU, you could drop that on the ground and not bother to stoop to pick it up.





Not to scoff on anyone's aspirations, but this reminded me of a discussion I was involved in on Amtrak, going out of DC, where a man studying to become a Catholic priest @ TCUA was telling me of his aspirations to do so (we were in the dining car), when suddenly a man at the adjoining table, a life-long engineer, succumbed to apoplexy and had a massive conniption/tirade where he insisted that any sort of "liberal arts" degree was worthless, a slap in the face to those who actually further America, even with a "Guaranteed Priesthood". I haven't heard a more vitriol-laden speech since, even politics pales in comparison. I was truly shocked, shocked I tell you.

Name recognition will mean a lot!

Sadly, I wish this wasn't true. It's BS, the same material is taught at the same places.



Again, :soap:

 

[H D]

Sadly, I wish this wasn't true. It's BS, the same material is taught at the same places.

Not true. My graduate degree is turning out to be much easier than my undergrad at UGA. For location purposes (middle GA), I am attending Georgia College & State University. There is a vast difference between the quality of education. My whole class was upset and shocked (as I was, but for different reasons) that our class would require a research paper. Now, I'm used to doing 2-3 research papers for undergrad, per class, per semester. We were given a 20 page maximum. At UGA, there was never a minimum or maximum, just answer the question. That usually amounted to 25-40 pages for my research papers in undergrad. We were also expected to submit to peer reviewed journals within the field of political science. It seems many of my new peers wouldn't even know what a peer reviewed journal is. If I wanted to check out a book from the library, which isn't small by most standards, I would likely have to wait for it to be shipped from the University of Georgia libraries (there are 3).



So, let me just assure you, the same things are not being taught and there is definitely a difference between a Research 1 university and the less recognized schools. They don't get the same research grants (which UGA was #1 in the nation the last time I checked) for a reason.

 

[Gavin Allan]

So, let me just assure you, the same things are not being taught and there is definitely a difference between a Research 1 university and the less recognized schools. They don't get the same research grants (which UGA was #1 in the nation the last time I checked) for a reason.

That's great if you want to be a researcher or elitist title-laden academian. Sorry, but my experience in industry is that the name of the University doesn't mean a thing (unless the GM's son played football for that same university). More important is the work-based exeriences and real-world problemsolving that you experienced along the way. I advise every student to get as much cooperative/work-base learning as they can while they are getting their education. Burger-flipping is a waste of time-- they must get a job in the field for which they are studying. Even if it is mopping the floor- if it is at a place related to their program of study they will gain more than they will know by having that experience under their belt and on their resume.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Hugh,



He looked long and hard at poli sci and for some of the schools he applied, that is what he applied as. But GWU has a very goo IA program with great internships, and the program more aligned with his aspirations. Also, he is open to a change of major by third year if needed.





KL,



You seem to be the type that likes to **** on just about everything. Please try to hold the cheap shots. McDonalds is a world class company that pays well, has a good product, and provides good service...on average. Of course, some locations differ, and their food may not be for everyone, but by all fair and unbiased accounts they are most certainly NOT vile.



The same suggestion to you on the 10k savings, or saying that all the programs are the same BS taught everywhere. As you may have inferred, it isn't so much about how much he makes and saves for college as it compares to the total cost, but the lessons learned by working and saving and the "skin in the game" that such work and savings fosters. That is the real value, and it allows us as parents to know that what money we also contribute towards college won't be taken for granted. As for different colleges teaching the same BS, I've found that to be just about the opposite case. Sure, there is a lot of similarities, but the best colleges do a very good job of not just teaching the same old material.



Please tone down your need to **** on the things that YOU don't see the value of or difference in. Instead, nicely ask questions or discuss. If you keep the current trend I probably won't have much to discuss with you. in the future.



P.S. My son learned and used his Spanish while flipping burgers at that vile company. So tha worked for him too.



TJR

 

[TrainTrac]

a yacht docked out back (and I do mean a 52' yacht with twin diesels and two bathrooms)

That would be a 52' yacht with twin diesels and two heads, not bathrooms. :grin:

 

[H D]

How about just being well educated? Is that not an ends great enough to satisfy the means? Is the resulting job the only way to judge an education? Would a Harvard educated man teaching in public high school have wasted his time and money at Harvard if a high school teacher is all he ever wanted to be? I really don't follow your logic. A great education can be an ends, not just a means.



And it really has nothing to do with how much money you spend on the school. I spent around $2500 a semester for tuition at UGA. That's $40k for four years. I will put my UGA education up against any other in the nation because I know the professors I had were the leaders in their field. Chan Ho Park (International Affairs) is the top ambassador to North Korea and has personally sat down to talks with Kim Jong Il, Bush I, Clinton, and George W. Charles Bullock (Pols) is the leading authority on Southern Politics and his books are widely regarded as the necessary textbooks to study Southern Politics. Dr. Gurian (POLS) is a leader in the field of elections. I could go on and on. My professors wrote the textbooks that your professors use. That's the difference. I got to pick the brains of some of the leaders in my field. That will help more than sweeping floors at any business.



Call me an elitist title laden academic (which is a laughable mis-characterization), but UGA is also recognized as the number one party school in the nation. So I also know how to have more fun than everyone else too. How's that for elitism?



Also, ask an Ivy League graduate if the University of Georgia is elite. The notion will have them in a riot. A state school on par with their alma mater? Ha!



I appreciate that my parents held me to my bad judgment when I told them "I don't need your money, I'll pay for college myself." Both the dumbest and best thing I ever said after my first year of college and some bad grades (never failed a class, btw).



I really wish I had taken my Spanish classes more seriously. I can understand it and read it pretty well but have difficulty writing or speaking. Rosetta Stone is in my future.