Stores Opening on Thanksgiving Day

[Richard L]

My whole point is that Target could have offered incentives for volunteers to work Thanksgiving night at midnight, either in the form of extra pay and perhaps their choice of a day off of their choosing? I'm sure there are enought people out there who need money for the holidays and would be willing to work as many hours as they can get.



It's the fact that Target officials just declared that the employees would have to work...like it or not, and it appears that most don't like it. How would Target feel if they advertised the store would be open at midnight and then no employees showed up...or they all called in sick? Are they willing to fire all these employees when they are approaching their busiest time of the year?? Christmas shopping season is often what most stores consider the sales period that makes or breaks the store for the year.



The other thing is that too many companies who treat their employees like that are often despirate and tend to alienate their employees to the point that they are not happy and it shows in their work and their attitudes towards their customers. That alienates the customers and the company starts to spiral downhill faster and cannot understand why?



I have seen so many business fall by the wayside or who cannot hire competent help because of the way the treat their employees. The only people the can hire are those who are only there for a paycheck and often they will leave or be terminated very quickly. A company is no better than the employees who work there and make the wheels go-around.



I don't know if Target is that kind of a company, but simply asking for volunteers and adding a some incentives for the employees who volunteer would let them open their stores at midnight with all volunteers, and avoid the bad press.



There is an old saying "You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar". And happy employees makes for happy customers, and happy customers makes more profit for the company.



...Rich

 

[H D]

All your points are negated, I think, by Wal-Mart's success. As a former Sam's Club employee, I know the value they place on competent workers, mainly because they're not necessary. Also, the "get in, get your s***, and get out" attitude of Wal-Mart doesn't seem to hurt them, either.



On another note, has anyone heard of Wal-Mart's recent interest in providing health care?

 

[TrainTrac]

My whole point is that Target could have offered incentives for volunteers to work Thanksgiving night at midnight, either in the form of extra pay and perhaps their choice of a day off of their choosing? I'm sure there are enought people out there who need money for the holidays and would be willing to work as many hours as they can get.

A quick Google search of news stories on this subject reveals that Target is indeed offering incentives to employees willing to work on Black Friday.

Target defended its early opening, saying the retailer is merely responding to consumer request. The chain said it tries to work around the schedule of store sales staff. Target said it will pay employees who would work on Thanksgiving holiday wages.

And Target isn't the only one engaging in this practice. Macy's, Best Buy, and Kohl's are all also opening at midnight. Wal-Mart is opening at 2200 on Thursday.

 

[Robert Thomas]

So, its not "corporate greed" if the employees get the monetary gain. It is "corporate greed" if the stockholders get the monetary gain. It's "corporate greed" if Target is does not ask the employees nicely to work. Still think "Corporate Greed" is a poorly used word form.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Just some random thoughts...



Profit keeps companies in business. More profit is a good thing and can help a business and its employees. More proft is not necessarily a bad thing. Profit is not evil, in of itself. More profit need not always be viewed as "corporate greed."



When we as a family balance our checkbook, bank some money into savings, tighten our belts, work harder and put aside for nice vacations or a rainy day is that "household greed?'



TJR

 

[Richard L]

Target isn't the only one engaging in this practice. Macy's, Best Buy, and Kohl's are all also opening at midnight. Wal-Mart is opening at 2200 on Thursday.

The difference is in the fact that Target chose to force workers to work Holiday/Midnight shift rather than ask for volunteers. By telling employees they had to be at work Thanksgiving night without any regard to employee's holiday plans is a bad way to treat employees. Employees have a personal life and for the wages these companies pay they assume they have a captive cheap labor force that they can infringe on the employees life and family.



It does not matter what the other stores like Walmart, Best Buy, etc do on holidays...It's the Target employees who are complaining which tells me that Target management did not handle this right. Management by fear does not work in the long run.

So, its not "corporate greed" if the employees get the monetary gain.

Yes it is corporate greed! The fact that Target may be paying incentive pay for working these odd Thanksgiving hours only means that the Target executives are confident they will make far more money that will more than offset the wages and other overhead costs associated with keeping the store open. Employees are not getting much monetary gain compared to what Target may get in profits.

As a former Sam's Club employee, I know the value they place on competent workers, mainly because they're not necessary. Also, the "get in, get your s***, and get out" attitude of Wal-Mart doesn't seem to hurt them, either.

That just proves my point...you get what you pay for. Treat employees like crap and that's what you get...crappy employees Turn over in those companies is outrageous. They don't care about your education, your experience, or your qualifications....The less you have the better they seem to like it. Most of their employees could not get a job anywhere else even when the economy was booming. These companies know that their employees are amoungst the lowest income group and they leverage that advantage. In most cases, they don't want their employees to be happy or to stay too long...If they don't like being treated like dirt, they will quit. That's good for the companies profit since they don't have to pay unemployment or retirement. If they hire someone with brains and strong work ethic, that employee will soon recognize that they are being used and treated like dirt and they will quit and move on to a better job with a better wage.



Redfish,

Still two original draftees in the Service. WO Ralph Rigby and CWO Franklin Ernst. Don't know if they change your number from US to RA.

Not sure the reason you brought this up, but the Army dropped the old US & RA military ID numbers back in the mid 1960's...(I still remember my old RA number..:grin So who are WO Ralph Rigby and CWO Franklin Ernst?? and what do they have to do with Target??

 

[Robert Thomas]

Sidetrack conversation with Train Trac. Sorry. Just two individuals patriots that did what was asked for over 40 years, as a example to support Train Trac's statements: if association is required. If you deem it off-topic I will edit it out.



You changed what I said a little. "If Target decides to open and also decides to give all of the profit, on that day, to the employees as a holiday bonus. Is the company still guilty of "corporate greed?" I will take it that you still deem this "Corporate Greed".



I am trying to understand your line between greed and acceptable profit. If Target gives all the funds gained to charity what is it.



Yes, I still also have that RA number in my head like it was yesterday. I wonder if I could get a phone number if I just dropped a digit. Sorry again off-topic.

 

[TrainTrac]

Redfish,



I stand corrected with regard to the Vietnam-era draftees still serving. However, it's still irrelevant to my original statement regarding today's all-volunteer Armed Forces. Beyond their original conscription into military service and first enlistment contract, those remaining draftees chose to remain in the service. No one forced them to re-enlist and continue to serve up to the present day. When their first contracts ended, the draft had ceased. So when they chose to stay in the service rather than go home, they became part of the all-volunteer forces.



Now,:back2topic:

 

[TrainTrac]

I am trying to understand your line between greed and acceptable profit.

Indeed. Me too.

 

[Robert Thomas]

 

[Robert Thomas]

I will remove the references.

 

[Richard L]

Redfish,



No problem about the US/RA serial numbers. I just did not see the connection with subject of this thread....If it was a sidebar conversation between you and TrainTrac, that's fine, and since you clarified the statment, I don't care if you leave it or delete.

If Target decides to open and also decides to give all of the profit, on that day, to the employees as a holiday bonus. Is the company still guilty of "corporate greed?" I will take it that you still deem this "Corporate Greed".

I have not seen where Target is giving all the profits for that day to the employees, so that is not even the issue to this discussion at this time. But to answer your hypothetical question...It would not be corporate greed since they are forfieting their profits. But I am also sure that if they did give the profits to the employees there would have been plenty of volunteers and there not have been employee complaints and we would not be having this discussion.



That just goes along with my argument that if Target management had asked for volunteers to work that day for holiday pay or other incentives, they probably would have had more than enough people who wanted/needed the extra money to make it happen without pissing off all the other employees who may have not needed the extra money or felt that family time was more important than the extra money.

I am trying to understand your line between greed and acceptable profit.

There is no line per say. It's based on actions by management, or the executives of a company that treat their employees disrespectfully. Simply telling the employees that they must work the special holiday shift without asking for volunteers. The decision to open on the holiday to match their competitors and enhance their profits is not the issue and is not corporate greed.



It's all about the authoritarian manner of how it was presented to the employees which pissed them off. When an employer does not trust his employees, or is not capable of motivating them without threats and completely disregarding the feelings of the employee. That indicates to me that they are more interested in their short term profits than building teamwork, respect and cooperation. Companies are in business to make a profit, but when they step on the backs of their employees to make their profit, then IMO it becomes greed.



...Rich

 

[TrainTrac]

Redfish,



No need to remove the references. It was just a side discussion.



Richard L said:

The difference is in the fact that Target chose to force workers to work Holiday/Midnight shift rather than ask for volunteers.

Do you know for a fact that this is how Target management presented it to employees? Or are you just assuming this is the way it went down? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. My wife's cousin works at Target, so I've posed the question to her. Once I receive a response from her, I'll share it here.

 

[Robert Thomas]

Socialism - is an economic system in which the means of production are commonly owned and controlled cooperatively; or a political philosophy advocating such a system.[1] As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs.[

 

[Thomas Rogers]

If you don't like nor want to do what your employer is asking, well, then one can always just quit. If enough people quit then the employer has to change their ways.



Abe Lincoln fixed it so that workers in America couldn't be forced to do anything.



(standing back from the union thread that is likely to start)



TJR

 

[Robert Thomas]

TJR

(standing back from the union thread that is likely to start)

Brilliant - I'm with you, if any of the rest have any sense they will follow. Besides the rain has stopped.

 

[EddieS'04]

(standing back from the union thread that is likely to start)

No unions down south ever force an employer to close. Or let the employee's off on holidays'.



They may contract for holiday pay or off days for some non-essentials.

This is mostly industry.



Not many retails around here have unions if any. Even the ones that do are open when they want to be.

 

[TrainTrac]

No unions down south ever force an employer to close. Or let the employee's off on holidays'.

Isn't that because most southern states are right-to-work states?

 

[Richard L]

TrainTrac

Do you know for a fact that this is how Target management presented it to employees? Or are you just assuming this is the way it went down? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. My wife's cousin works at Target, so I've posed the question to her. Once I receive a response from her, I'll share it here.

No I don't, but If they had asked for volunteers, the majority of the employees would not be unhappy now; it would never made it to the media, and we would not be discussing this.



How your wife's sister's store presented it may be very different than the way other stores handled it.. I'm pretty sure each store manager handled it and presented it to the employees differently.



Redfish,

Teamwork and cooperation is not Socialism. In most socialistic societies the employee does not have a choice or any say...Here in America, employees have the right to quit and walk away from any job. That's why it's always benificial for both employers and employees to work together for the mutual benefit of both.



Yes, some companies have an authoritarian management style and only provide minimum wages with out insurance, or retirement benefits. When you treat your employees as nothing more than useless pawns in your quest for profits, you end up with employees who are rowing the boat against the goals of the company and the company actually gets left profit.



If the executives of Target wanted to open at midnight and ordered that of all stores, it the individual store management to get the job done, and it is always better to get the employees to agree to the best way to accomplish that. Stores that agree on a solution with the employees probably have no complaints, but it appears that most did not handle it that way and it shows in the volume of disgruntled employees.



Companies who show that kind of disrespect for their employees often have managers who are also inexperienced and been thrown into those positions without any management training or experience. These managers only want to take the quickest and easiest way out...They get drunk with power and just tell everybody they have to work...no excuses and no exceptions.



....Rich

 

[Thomas Rogers]

It's the most lucrative shopping day of the year. It's opening the stores early at midnight, like other stores (the competitors) so as to get the nuts that go black friday shopping at your store, hopefully first. It also allows the retailer to maximize the hours and the sales for that day and the three day weekend.



So, exactly what is wrong with this?



If a fireworks company asked its employees to work overtime the weeks leading up to July 4th, or a snowshovel company its employees in the fall, is this really something that should be unexpected?



Black friday isn't a new phenom. It's been going on for years. The midnight thing isn't even that new.



IMHO, if you take a job with a retailer expect to be inconvenienced and asked to work on Black Friday, maybe even on Christmas Eve (or the last full weekend before Christmas). These are make-or-break days for retailers.



There is a reason they call it Black Friday.



This is business as usual, and companies are in business to make money. Don't like it, don't work for a retailer.



TJR