Stores Opening on Thanksgiving Day

[Thomas Rogers]

One other thing...showing up to work at 11pm, IMHO, hardly constitutes having to "work on a holiday".



Everybody that is not traveling is well over the Thanksgiving festivities by then...let's be real.



This uproar, to me, is all a big lot of nothing. Phoney crap, IMHO.



For cripes sake, these people that are bitching had to know the nature of the job before they took it. Showing up at 11pm or 5am the next morning doesn't to me seem like a big frigging difference...not one that can really impact spending time with family on Thanksgiving.



Some people really need some real adversity in their lives, me thinks!



TJR

 

[Jacob Dryer]

Just to touch on the asking for employees to work on black friday and only using those that volunteer..



When I was at Best Buy, Black Friday was not an option, EVERYONE had to work. I knew it signing on, and all seasonal employees knew it too.. The last year I was there (and it may have been the previous years also but I can't remember) there were 3 shifts, and you had to work 1 or you would no longer be an employee. Even with every normal employee and seasonal employee we still couldn't keep up with the crowds and lines were long..

 

[TrainTrac]

OK, this past weekend I had a conversation with my wife's cousin (a Target employee) about this very subject. She said that the only employees required to work the mid-shift on Thursday night are managers. Otherwise, they asked for volunteers, and offered a 40-cent per-hour incentive for anyone who chooses to work that shift. They had no problem with folks signing up to work that night. Target employees who work any other shift on Black Friday are also getting holiday pay.



The scuttlebutt amongst the "rank and file" employees regarding this issue is that it's not really a big deal, and that the number of Target employees nation-wide who are upset about this issue is actually a relatively small percentage. Which is pretty much what I suspected all along. Probably one or maybe a few employees of the store in NE where this originated didn't like it, so they started the online petition. Then, the news media (in their never-ending quest for sensationalism), picked up on this story to play it up as yet another example of "corporate greed", or "big-business screwing their employees".



Incidentally, I mentioned earlier in this thread that Wal-Mart is opening at 2200 on Thursday night. This decision was in response to Target opening at midnight. Now, Toys-R-Us plans to open at 2100 on Thursday to get the jump on Wal-Mart & Target. So it's like I said before: Simply market competition...

 

[Richard L]

TrainTrac,

I agree that the media probably blew this whole Black Friday issue out of proportions, but they did indicate that 80K people signed the petition. Even if they worked at other stores they may not be happy about this kind of competition that infringes on their holiday time with their families.



At the rate we are going Black Friday will become Black Holloween, or Black Labor Day as they keep extending the holiday shopping season. Even now stores are putting up Christmas displays before Halloween.



People only go to these Black Friday sales events for the big discounts on certain items where there are only a handful of the items in each store. So 2000 people show up early at each store to be the first to get the very limited quantites of the sale items. This has caused stampedes when the doors open and people have been injured...Some stores have been sued for lack of security and crowd control as their Black Friday sales turned into near riots.



My personal opinion is that with all these stores trying to open earlier and earlier each year, they are negating themselves and each other. They are not making anymore money than if they went back to opening at 6:00am on Black Friday.



As for TrainTrac's wife's sister, that is only one store and only how that stores management handled it. It says nothing as to how it was presented to the employee's at other Target store?



I think the 80K people who signed the petition is only the tip of the iceberg, and if these retailers continue to eat away the employee's holiday time, more and more employees will start to rebel.



...Rich

 

[TrainTrac]

As for TrainTrac's wife's sister, that is only one store and only how that stores management handled it. It says nothing as to how it was presented to the employee's at other Target store?

First, one minor point: The Target employee with whom I discussed this situation has been twice referred to as my wife's sister, when in fact I stated that she's my wife's cousin. This might seem a little nit-picky, but as a retired military man yourself, Richard, I'm sure you can appreciate the concept of "attention to detail".:grin:



And you've twice posited that my example of how her store presented this issue to employees is perhaps a single example, and not indicative of other Target stores; suggesting that each store was allowed to do as they saw fit, rather than abide by a corporate policy. Yet no evidence is presented to support this supposition. So are you assuming that a large, successful, retail corporation like Target would give each store's managers the autonomy to decide how to handle ensuring that sufficient employees are working on the biggest shopping day of the year? That each store manager could decide whether or not to offer incentive pay, and whether to present it to employees as voluntary, or to simply dictate/mandate which employees shall work on the biggest shopping day of the year?



I seriously doubt that this is the case. It's just not a good way to do business. I'm pretty sure the policy came down from Target corporate HQ in MN. Not only that, but in today's age of instant information sharing, if one store did it one way, and another in the next town/state over did it another, don't you think that employees would find out very quickly and raise a big stink about it?



My wife's cousin told me that Target as a whole is very good and flexible about scheduling work with their employees.



As for the petition and the now supposed 180K signatures, there's no way to know how many of the signers are actually Target employees vs. how many are just P.O.'d at Target, or even just band-wagon jumpers. The guy who started this whole ruckus and the petition, Anthony Hardwick, isn't even scheduled to work on Black Friday anyway!:banghead:



Sorry, but them's the breaks in the retail business in a free-market economy. If you don't like it, then don't shop or work there.

 

[Richard L]

TrainTrac,

First, one minor point: The Target employee with whom I discussed this situation has been twice referred to as my wife's sister, when in fact I stated that she's my wife's cousin. This might seem a little nit-picky, but as a retired military man yourself, Richard, I'm sure you can appreciate the concept of "attention to detail".

Yes, I mispoke and refered to the Target employee as your wife's sister rather than your wife's cousin...sorry, my error. And yes it is being nit-picky and sounds more like being obsessivly anal, since it really does not matter if it was your wife's cousin, or your wife's sister, it does not change anything.



Also, what's the point of bringing up my military career and my "Attention to detail" since it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread? That sounds like an attempt to insult me?



In the whole scheme of the world's issue, this Target opening on Black Friday is totally insignificant, but you want to make it a national issue because the media may have taken liberties in exaggerating the issue...you are doing the exact same thing. Presonally, I don't care if Target or Walmart are locking up their employees in the basement Thanksgiving day to ensure they will be there to open at midnight.



It's my opinion is that if 80k employee complained, then it was not handled well by management. I think this competition to open stores earlier and earlier on Black Friday while stepping on their employees to open earlier and earlier is being greedy. There is a fine line between being greedy and being competitive.



I think the statement by the J.C. Penny's spokesmant said exactly what my feelings are about the issue. You can disagree if you want, but I stated my position and I will not say any more on this issue.



...Rich

 

[Thomas Rogers]

RichardL,



I too think that opening stores earlier and earlier on Black Friday at a potential inconvenience to and dismay of some employees is no doubt motivated by the desire to increase profits (aka what you call greed).



Beyond that, I don't know if it is greed gone too far. But then, I'm typically pro-business on issues like this, feeling that employees can always vote with their feet.



TJR

 

[H D]

I'm typically pro-business on issues like this, feeling that employees can always vote with their feet.

As can customers. No doubt some of the same critics will be the first in line Thursday night.

 

[TrainTrac]

Yes, I mispoke and refered to the Target employee as your wife's sister rather than your wife's cousin...sorry, my error. And yes it is being nit-picky and sounds more like being obsessivly anal, since it really does not matter if it was your wife's cousin, or your wife's sister, it does not change anything.



Also, what's the point of bringing up my military career and my "Attention to detail" since it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread? That sounds like an attempt to insult me?

Much like Redfish's comment about US/RA serial numbers, it was a sidebar comment, which happens all the time in discussions. It was intended in a purely lighthearted fashion, and in no way whatsoever meant to be an insult-hence the :grin: at the end of the sentence. I've never posted anything on this web site with the intent to insult someone.

In the whole scheme of the world's issue, this Target opening on Black Friday is totally insignificant, but you want to make it a national issue because the media may have taken liberties in exaggerating the issue...you are doing the exact same thing. Presonally, I don't care if Target or Walmart are locking up their employees in the basement Thanksgiving day to ensure they will be there to open at midnight.

I didn't make it a "national issue". Anthony Hardwick did when he chose to start his online petition. How am I exaggerating the issue? I simply posted factual anecdotal evidence that I received from a Target employee about how Target handled the whole issue. It would seem that you were the one exaggerating the issue when you made the assumption that my factual, anecdotal information was indicative of only one Target store, rather than corporate policy.

It's my opinion is that if 80k employee complained, then it was not handled well by management.

Duly noted, and I respect your opinion. I just don't understand how you arrived at/formed that opinion. You're basing it on the assumption that all 80k signatures on the petition are Target employees. As I said earlier, there's no way to know how many of the signers are actually Target employees vs. how many are "John Q. Publics" just P.O.'d at Target, or even just band-wagon jumpers-like maybe OWS whiners. I think that this unfairly skews the issue against Target.

I think the statement by the J.C. Penny's spokesmant said exactly what my feelings are about the issue.

Perhaps this is a contributing factor to JCP reporting yet another quarter of net loss. Employers do indeed need to treat their well, but that also needs to be balanced with remaining competitive in a very tough marketplace. If an employer doesn't remain competitive, then the employees soon might not have a job at all. Target seems to have done this by making the Thursday night mid-shift voluntary and offering incentive pay for both it and all day Black Friday.

I too think that opening stores earlier and earlier on Black Friday at a potential inconvenience to and dismay of some employees is no doubt motivated by the desire to increase profits



Beyond that, I don't know if it is greed gone too far. But then, I'm typically pro-business on issues like this, feeling that employees can always vote with their feet.

Exactly. And consumers can vote with their wallets.

 

[Les]

I believe Pro Bass Shops is open Thanksgiving Day.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Also, some are so quick to blame the employers for asking some of their employees to come in on the holidays (even if only for an hour), then where is the outcry against John and Jane Shopper?



The are the root cause, right? If they would simply not shop, if the consumer spent their time with their family in some idealic Norman Rockwell Thanksgiving then there would be no stores opened...right?



Of course, I don't blame anyone. Supply and demand go hand-in-hand.



Still, I ask the question, because I live in an area of the country where only recently did the logal family-run grocery stores start staying open on Sundays. They had to to compete with the big chains that moved in. Sunday is the #1 grocery shopping day of the week. To be closed on that day kills one's business, and once people start going to another store on Sundays, they tend to question why they go to the same grocery store their parents and grandparents when to the other days of the week.



Compete or die. Give the customer what they want or someone else will.



TJR