Target Gibson Guitars - CEO of Gibson Feds Told Us to Leave U.S.

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Target Gibson Guitars - CEO of Gibson Feds Told Us to Leave U.S.



Our government raiding an american company based on foreign laws about wood. Gibson is the only U.S. guitar manufacturer that

contributes to the Republican party. They are also the only U.S. guitar company that has been raided.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E-tXQ6kQoU&feature=player_embedded#!
 
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Here we go.



How dare those evil (Check one) ___ Democrats ___ Republicans do that! This is nothing more than a sham from the (Check one) ___ Democratic Party ___ Republican Party to (Check one) ___ ban ___continue abortion and to (Check one) ___ deny ___ give the right to homosexuals to (Check one) ___ don't ask, dont tell ___ get married!





Tom
 
That poorly-formatted sentence "fill in the blank" construct isn't relevant to the discussion in any way, shape, or form. :banghead: I suppose a more prurient & puerile mind than mine could see a "connection" between your homosexual-referencing loaded sentence construct and the mention of wood in the OP, but I'll leave that to such a mind. :bwahaha:



I take it you didn't watch the video? I assume this because the video link doesn't work, in addition to the post that is so irrelevant to the thread that it is pretty humorous. At least, I thought so :grin:



My opinion, based solely upon the text provided in the OP, is that the US enforcing foreign laws upon a company based within itself, providing that company with an exclusive impediment to business in its market, is of high concern regardless of one's take on the underlying politics.



I'm surprised that something like this hasn't happened with the FDA & "Two if by Tea".
 
The USA has enough problems enforcing US laws much less the laws of other countries !!!! What is this Lacy Law and who is the A-hole who suggestedt that Gibson move their operations to Madagascar??



Again, another example of our Government out of control. If we cut about 1/2 the government jobs in this country they would not have time to go on these wild goose chases.



A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson



...Rich
 
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If you read more into it, there is some validity to it.



If the wood is illegal, then it is illegal.



There are more important things to worry about than this. We bitch and complain, but we still keep these idiots in office.





Tom



p.s. I am glad I got you all worked up.
 
I just did some checking on the Lacy Act. It appears to be a law that is over 100 years old and was updated with additional restrictions in 2008 which impacts furniture makers, flooring manufactureres and any business that relies on imported wood/plant products that other countries claimed to be endangered?



The law does not seem to make any exceptions for wood products that were not restricted prior to 2008...which is really dumb, so if you try to bring some wood product back into the US you must know exact species of wood and where it originated from??? Plus you must have certificates of Origin for every different species of wood.



While the CEO of Gibson is claiming that he has permission from India for the wood he imports, some of the wood comes from Madagasgar which it claims that wood originating from Madagasar can only be worked in Madagasgar...Hence the (Dumb) suggestion that Gibson move their operations to Madagascar???



I think that India is importing some raw wood from Madagascar and then selling it to Gibson. So Gibson may have permission from India, some of the wood it purchases from India may have it's origins in Madagascar? If the certificates of Origin for the wood are from Madagascar, then that may be source of the controversy.



I think the law is stupid and don't understand how Madagascar can sell raw wood and then claim that nobody else can work the wood to make anything out of it? Perhaps people are smuggling the wood out of Madagascar and selling it to India, who then exports it to the US...with or without certificates of origin?



If the US is attempting to enforce this law, they certainly don't have to raid the Gibson factory with an armed SWAT team. A Federal agent in a business suit could have walked into the Gibson Corp offices and told them they were in violation, and they needed to present all the proper certificates that they legally imported the wood. The Feds over reacted as if Gibson was hiding Osama bin Ladin in their pile of wood..:fire:



...Rich



 
Lacey Act 1907



Conservation law set up to protect threatened and endangered species, both plant and animal.



Enforced by both the Dept of Interior, U.S. Customs, and any agency having authority to enforce all federal law. Very simply stated one cannot possess any of these listed items in the US without a permit.



An example: Sea turtle are protected by the US and many other countries. Some countries don't protect sea turtles they eat them. If you to a Caribbean island and see a turtle shell all painted up and pretty and think it would look good on you wall at home. You buy it and head home. At customs, you declare it or they find it, they will take it and possibly fine you. Because it is a violation to import or possess these items. If you have it in your home and they find out about it they can come get it.



Any administration can choose what laws they enforce and who they enforce them on. Right for Wrong.



You cannot sue/collect from the Federal Government without their approval.



You can file under the Federal Tort Claims Act.







 
For the lack of what to say,,,This is so stupid, I would like to know also, who's decision to jump on this.



Big brother out of control......:angry:
 
Just in-case any of y'all plan on going logging on vacation. As noted a lots of woods include finished wood products. Don't really know how they tell on finished products at the border since the only way to really tell a wood is looking at the cells under a microscope.



1973 International Treaty Convention On International Trade In Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora.



Woods



Afrormosia Pericopsis elata Appendix II 6/11/92

Aji Caryocar costaricense Appendix II (including finished wood products) 7/1/75

Almendro Dipteryx panamensis Appendix III (including finished wood products; wood from Costa Rica, and Nicaragua only) 2/13/03

Brazilwood Caesalpinia echinata Appendix II 9/13/07

Cedar, Spanish Cedrela odorata Appendix III (wood from Columbia, Guatemala, and Peru only)

6/12/01

Cocobolo Dalbergia retusa Appendix III (wood from Guatemala only) 2/12/08

Lignum Vitae Guaiacum spp. Appendix II (including finished wood products) 2/13/03

Mahogany, Cuban Swietenia mahagoni Appendix II 6/11/92

Mahogany, Honduran Swietenia macrophylla Appendix II (wood from Neotropics only)

11/16/95

Mahogany, Mexican Swietenia humilis Appendix II (including finished wood products) 7/1/75

Monkey Puzzle Araucaria araucana Appendix I (including finished wood products) 7/1/75

Podocarp, Black Pine Podocarpus neriifolius Appendix III (including finished wood products, wood from Nepal only) 11/16/75

Ramin Gonystylus spp. Appendix II (including finished wood products) 8/6/01

Rosewood, Brazilian Dalbergia nigra Appendix I (including finished wood products) 6/11/92

Rosewood, Honduran Dalbergia stevensonii Appendix III (wood from Guatemala only) 2/12/08

Sandalwood, Red Pterocarpus santalinus Appendix II 2/16/95

Stinkwood, Red Prunus africana Appendix II (including finished wood products) 2/16/95

Verawood Bulnesia sarmientoi Appendix III* (wood from Argentina only)



:banghead: Brick wall, not wooden

 
Redfish,

According to the new updated version of the Lacy Act, if you are importing wood of anykind (raw or finished) you must declare it, have proof of it's species, and have a certificate of Origin to tell where the wood came from. If the wood product contains multiple species of wood you must have proof of all species an their appropriate certificates of origin.



According to what I have read, if you don't have the proof of species, customs does not care even if it's common pine, you cannot import it. It's appearantly effecting a lot of industries here in the USA....and they wonder why we have 9.1% unemployment and all of our jobs are going overseas.



I think the question about the wood Gibson is using is the Rosewood used in nearly all guitar fretboards? It seems that Madagascar does not object to exporting raw Rosewood, but object to anyone sanding, sawing, cutting, carving, shaping or otherwise working their wood into a finished product unless that work is done in Madagascar? I certainly don't see how they can own any claim to what is done to the wood that they willfully exported, or to assume that people just want to buy and ship their wood to the US to burn in their fireplaces??...Which is probably what the Feds will do with any wood they confiscate? Oddly enough, Madagascar is not even on the list of restricted woods and origins you posted?



...Rich



 
It's appearantly effecting a lot of industries here in the USA....and they wonder why we have 9.1% unemployment and all of our jobs are going overseas.



Maybe the 9.1% unemployment and jobs going overseas is by design?





Tom
 
So, when I come back from a trip to South America and I have three books in a cardboard box and some green vegetable material. I have to declare the books and box, but don't have to declare the vegetable material. I have to have certificate's proving what type of wood was used to make the pulp that is in every page of the books and makeup of the cardboard box. Yet, the customs officials have to prove the green vegetable materials is dope and not green tea.



Good thing I got rid of my wooden teeth.



Politics
 
I wish the govt would pay as much attention to illegally imported people as they do illegally imported wood. Of course if they did that then no one in D.C. would have maids and nannies.
 
JohnnyO,

I wish the govt would pay as much attention to illegally imported people as they do illegally imported wood.



EXCELLENT POINT !!! That was a big issue that led up to 9/11 ten years ago, and I just heard a news report that says we are better at screening people who come to the US, but once they get in the country, they still just vanish, overstay their visas and nobody is trying to locate them?



I suspect that since no other guitar makers are having issues with these imported woods, that it may be more of a technicality that Gibson is not in compliance. Even the Gibson CEO claims that they have "permission from India" to use the wood, but he has been raided twice and does not seem to understand where he is not in compliance. I suspect he does not know, since he should have said he had all the proper certificates of orgin that complies with the updated Lacy Act...Permission from India to use the wood is not a part of the Lacy Act??? I certainly don't think it's political, (as implied in the video) even though the Gibson CEO claims to support conservative candidates. Perhaps he needs to fire his attorney.s and hire new ones who have read the Lacy Act and understand what Gibson needs to do to be in compliance.



Since other guitar manufacturers are having problems with the new updates to the Lacy Act that took effect in 2008, I really sounds like Gibson is taking acception to this law by not complying, and trying to make it a political issue.



...Rich



 
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