wal-mart jumps to # 1

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Though I cannot really relate to your statements about buying a house with loans and such, as I have not done so, as I have a deep-seated fear and hatred of debt.
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I am like you. The idea of owing someone money scares the daylights out of me. I do not like car loans and if I do get one, I pay it off as soon as I can. As for a mortgage, I have two choices. Pay rent to someone and pay their mortgage for them or pay my own mortgage.



I prefer to pay my own. If I could buy a house with cash, I would do it.



But, yes, in NE Ohio in the area I live, one can own 2 acres in the country with a brick style ranch for about $120,000. The home we live in is 800 sq/ft sitting on a 90' x 90' lot close to everything. All within walking distance, if we chose to walk it. That same house in California would sell for $300,000 to $400,000. Our mortgage is only $400/month (including taxes and insurance). Utilities run another 300.00/month. Add in food, fuel for vehicles, etc of another $500.00/month, and there is a $10.00/hr job paying for all this. It can be done.



This is for a home with double the property of his neighbors, so my home value is more than theirs is for an equal house.



It can be done. Just because someone works at McDonald's making more than $10/hr does not mean they make more money. They may make more money, but they spend more to live. So in the end, they make less money.



My cousin moved to Boca Raton, Fl because of a job offer that paid more than he was making in NE Ohio. He moved back to NE Ohio because his $100,000/year paid job was worth about $35,000 at home. So he came back to NE Ohio and makes a paltry $40,000/year and has more money than he knows what to do with. (This is a gross over statement, but the point is that wages in one area have to support the living expenses in the same area.)





Tom
 
As comedian, Larry the Cable Guy says: " If you don't like the wages that Wal-Mart pays, don't work for them" Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and saying you have to work at Wal-Mart for minimum-wage or $10 per hour. It's your choice.



Who are many of these workers at Wal-Mart? Most are women, both married and single parents. Some have working spouses or they have other jobs, so they are multi-income families. I'm sure some are students who are working to help pay the bills while the go to school. Wal-Mart also hires a lot of senior citizens who need the extra income to suppliment their Social Security.



If these people did not have these jobs, many would be on 100% welfare or collecting unemployment...at least they are mostly self-sufficient people who are willing to work for a living and are not looking for free handouts. And since they are workers, they are paying taxes each payday even if they get most if not all of it back when they file at the end of the year.



For those of us who make considerably more than minimum wage, we cannot comprehend how someone can live on such a small salary. The truth is that they know how to reduce their cost of living to a bare minimum and probably wonder how people who make $50K+ salaries can complain or have a need to file bankrupcy. The phenomona is simple: The more you make the more you spend...and then we often spend more than we make to boot.



Many people who make a lot of money have a lot of credit cards and use them assuming that we will have no problem paying them back. Then one day the economy crashes and we lose our jobs and finally come to the realization that while we made $50K we were living like someone who was making twice that amount and now in debt $50K+ to the credit card companies.



Many of the people who work at Wal-Mart do not even qualify for credit cards, and that in itself may be their biggest blessing. They may live from payday to payday but they do not have instruments to allow them to live beyond their means.



It's not a matter of how much you make...It's how much you keep that matters.



Take it from someone who turned their life around in as little as 6 years. I was employed but on the verge of filing bankrupcy and did not know what direction my life would be taking. Within 3 years I was debt free accept for my mortgage, bought a new Mercedes, a used Toyota Highlander for a work vehicle, $40K in my checking account, and a 734 credit score.



Now I am gainfully employed, but if I lost my job tomorrow, I could live comfortably the rest of my life and never have to touch my savings. I still have no bills except my mortgage on the new house I bought two months ago and I own my old home with the mortgage paid in full.. I have gone on vacations to Hawaii the past 2 years, taken a lady friend with me and paid all of her expenses, stayed at some very nice resorts and Condos on the Big Island, ate in some excellent resturants, and enjoyed everything without any guilt or worry about debts because I paid off my $4000 American Express card as soon as the bill arrives. Even the Air Fare was paid a good month before we left.



I have found that Credit cards are probably the worst thing you can have in your wallet. Even those so-called "Low interest" cards are dangerous. They hook you and then the rates start going up and up while the minimum payment will take you a lifetime to pay off. I seen an article not long ago that said the average American family had about $30K in credit card debt??? That is absolutely astonishing. That is the closest thing the US has had to legalized slavery in nearly 150 years!



If you make $22 per hour and your union is fighting with your employer to pay you more money because they claim you can't live on that paultry income...How do you think the people at Wal-Mart look at you? I would think they look at you as a Greedy, Ungratefull Bastard who thinks he's too good to work or even shop at Wal-Mart.



...Rich

 
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Funny how Caymen sings the praises of "Penn and Teller: Bull$hit!" in the past, saying how those guys are spot-on in their observation...



...except for when it comes to their episode on "Wal*Mart Bashing", in which they credibly and factually make the claims that WalMart typically provides jobs where there are none, and more often then not hire part-time workers that are actually looking for part-time work (moms with kids in school, elderly, transitional employees, young employees).



If you want a so-called living wage, which for most people really means that they want to make enough to live in a nice neighborhood, and to buy the toys they want and live the way they want, then might I suggest you learn a valuable trade or go to college and get an in-demand degree...or start your own company, etc.



We still live in (one of) the best country(ies) for such opportunities.



Anyone can live on $10/hour if they want to...most simply don't WANT the lifestyle that $10/hour provides. Also, our government has made it possible to live a better lifestyle than that which working for $10/hour provides, so for many, ...why work? ...why even try?



TJR
 
1200 a month in bills, but you said that at 10/hr you'd make 300 a week, and a month has 4 weeks, so you're 10/hr job makes just enough to sustain life....which means there is no money for other things, say school to improve one's life to get a higher paying job.



Again, making ends meet with a dead-end job is not living. How many hours does this 10/hr person have to work to pull in 300/week after taxes in your area anyhow? Your hypothetical 10/hr person worked the same hours you worked, so how many do you work?



I have a friend who is bagging over 60k a year with just a HSD, and he has so few expenses that he's loaded.



Shoot, UPS is again the superior dead-end job. Raises, benefits, school money, and upward mobility aplenty. (tangent)



Around here, a townhouse with so little grass that even a Weed Whacker is overkill to mow it sells for 400,000 USD minimum.



I'd never rent a house--all my life I've been near rental houses, and only the scum of the earth rent houses. They seem nice, and then their true nature as "thugs" or white trash is revealed :(



Anyhow, I could rent or I could pay my mortgage AND property tax. I know which is cheaper, and I know that I do not really need a house at this time.



 
I'd never rent a house--all my life I've been near rental houses, and only the scum of the earth rent houses. They seem nice, and then their true nature as "thugs" or white trash is revealed :(
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Thank you.
 
KL,



I agree with everything you say. That just shows that around you living well (or maybe at all) for $10/hour just won't happen.



Still, $10/hour is possible. You may have to rent a small apt with a roommate or two. You may have to bus, not own a car. You may be working JUST for food, clothes, rent, and utilities...but it can be done.



But, by your definition, it isn't "living."



If people want better, or want to live in an area where "better" costs a lot, then you better work hard and make yourself valuable in the marketplace.



TJR
 
Funny how Caymen sings the praises of "Penn and Teller: Bull$hit!" in the past, saying how those guys are spot-on in their observation...



...except for when it comes to their episode on "Wal*Mart Bashing", in which they credibly and factually make the claims that WalMart typically provides jobs where there are none, and more often then not hire part-time workers that are actually looking for part-time work (moms with kids in school, elderly, transitional employees, young employees).
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You make it sound like I bash Penn & Teller for that episode. They make some interesting points, but the fact remains, many companies compete with Wal-Mart while paying higher wages with benefits.



Wal-Mart could offer that. They choose not to.



1200 a month in bills, but you said that at 10/hr you'd make 300 a week, and a month has 4 weeks, so you're 10/hr job makes just enough to sustain life....which means there is no money for other things, say school to improve one's life to get a higher paying job.
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Hate to break it to you, but most Americans are making just enough to sustain life. This is the reality of the American dream.



Again, making ends meet with a dead-end job is not living. How many hours does this 10/hr person have to work to pull in 300/week after taxes in your area anyhow?
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With 25% income takes, simple. That is what a $10.00/hr job comes up with. For some people, life is just a chore. No vacations, no get away's. Day to day... work, come home, go to work, go home. They are happy with that life too...or they just deal with it.





Tom



p.s. I do not watch Penn & Teller anymore since I no longer have Showtime.
 
Caymen, then start proselytizing people who are "disenfranchised" in the modern world to work at UPS as well as wherever else they work.



Starting minimum pay of 8.50, 9.50 if you're a Primary Sorter. 50 cent raise after 3 months, annual raises forever thereafter.



Award-winning healthcare given to all employees.



Incredible upward mobility



Free food at most shifts



Ample time & 1/2 overtime, and the ability to work other shifts for additional pay (though that generally invalidates part-time overtime requests, but hey)



3,000+ USD a year for school.



Other companies have to be like this, so if you want to empower those who are at the tail end of life, get them to move their carcass over to big brown or similar, as they're always hiring.



Oh, and (unfortunately) they're unionized...which is where I saw some of the greatest union atrocities...but anyhow, that'll make you feel great about recommending them.



(And if you're a chick and you work there, well, you won't have to lift a finger. UPS is basically prison, so it's just how it goes)



Anyone who works at the bottom of the food chain and complains is unjustified, as there is still upward mobility. Though I do give them some props, for as TJR and others have said, they don't have to work.
 
I know of people that worked at UPS. Sorting boxes is a very hard job and for 2 bucks an hour more, can sit at Aldi ringing people out.





Tom
 
Just think, All of this started just because Wal-Mart jumped over Exxon/Mobil to take the number one position on the Fortune 500 list of largest corporations? I think Wal-Mart might be the worlds largest employer too, if you don't count the Federal Government



Success breeds jealousy. So I wonder how many complaints about Wal-Mart's wages come from the actual employee's, the unemployed that did not qualify for a Wal-Mart job, or their competitors who have to pay higher wages?



Wal-Mart is not run by idiots. You can bet that if Wal-Mart sees a lot of potential or leadership in any of it's minimum wage emloyees, they will advance quickly to a position where they can reach their full potential



You don't join the military as a General or First Sargent. You start at the bottom and work your way up unless you have an advanced degree and you might get in as a Captain, or Leutenant. Wal-Mart and many large companies promote from within because it shows employees that they can be promoted to the highest levels if the put forth the effort. Obviously, a college degree can help you clime the corporate ladder faster, but should not let you leapfrog over more experienced employees...that does happen but often to the detriment of the company employee relationships.



...Rich
 
RL @ many places, as you know, you need a college degree to even get on the bottom of the corporate ladder. Without one, you're not climbing it, you're jumping for it, and you can't reach it...it's not possible.



Supposedly college proves something, so much so that employers don't look for aptitude lest there be an accompanying college degree.



Even to get into the Army's climb to General from 2nd Lieutenant you need a college degree (or be extremely lucky in field promotion, very very lucky). The Army will let you join without a degree...provided you can get a degree in a year.



In many fields, a degree isn't enough, one must also prove aptitude above and beyond a degree, often requiring personal projects, internships, paid 3rd party certifications, etc etc.....which if you're going to do that why require a college degree?

(Ranting a bit against the compsci industry here, but true in so many areas)



Which is why something like UPS has merit as they didn't care about degrees, and if you wanted to work your way up the conventional UPS hierarchy, you had to start at the bottom of the chain, where telling everyone you had a degree was a detriment (Yo, if you got a duhgree, what you doin' here?--not all spoke ebonics, and many truck drivers had degrees, but truckin' paid better)



 
KL,

Precisely my point. you almost always have to start at the bottom even if you have a degree. The military accepts MD's and Lawyers into the military as Captians. If you have a degree and ROTC you can attend a 2 or 3 week officer ROTC officer training camp and be commissioned as a 2nd LT.



Wal-Mart and many other companies do offer starting positions "At the bottom" that do not require any degrees. Some companies start almost everyone at the bottome and only hire from within. You may start work there with a college degree, but you still start at the bottom. You do not leapfrog over anyone on your first day of work and you don't get paid anymore than the lowest starting wages.



Many years ago, my oldest daughter started working for Wal-Mart before they even opened the store. She started at the lowest wage, setting up and stocking shelves. Within a week she was promoted to Inventory Supervisor. When the store opened she was train as a cashier because everyone had to have cashier experience but that was only for a few weeks. They found out she had computer skills and was moved into the office to do the UPC computer updates with the new prices and later did the payroll. All these promotions included a pay raise. Now she has an accounting degree and is a Tax Accountant for Curves.



...Rich



 
If there was no Walmart where would these people shop?

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?page_id=9798
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Sure seems to be a lot of Southern folks in those pics. Walmarts here are clean, bright, and free of welfare check cashers.
 
"I'd never rent a house--all my life I've been near rental houses, and only the scum of the earth rent houses. They seem nice, and then their true nature as "thugs" or white trash is revealed :("



wow, REAL NICE !!!!



i guess for someone who cant afford to buy, maybe they are relocating or transfered renting a house is in option instead of living in an apartment complex.

so that makes them thugs or white trash.

good judgement call :sad:
 
I agree with gary s,



How does renting equate to being scum, thugs or white trash. Many of the men and women in uniform are renting because their jobs are so transient that it is impractial to purchase a house or condo.



There are many reasons why some people chooses or may be forced to rent instead of buying a home, and that certainly does not make them scum, thugs or white trash. With the economy the way it is now, and the high unemployment rate only means that a lot more people are bing forced out of their purchased homes and they are forced to rent or live under a bridge somewhere.



Many of these people did nothing wrong but had the rug pulled out from under their feet. Many of these people are well educated, and skilled workers but that does not matter if employers are not hiring. They must resort to taking work that is out of their normal field and the jobs pay far less money, so they are forced to cut back and renting a smaller house or apartment is often a smart way to cut expenses until you can find a vial job in your chosen career field.



...Rich
 
Growing up in the inner city, I know the sure shot way to destroy a neighborhood is to build an apartment complex right in the middle of it.



While renting is not only for scum, the majority of renters are scum. People owning a house have a vested interest in keeping it nice. Those that rent do not.



I cringe when I see apartments being built in a neighbrohood. "There goes the neighborhood!" comes to mind.





Tom
 
So JDBoxes, your post to my original quote on my experience on house renters was sarcastic? You did not flag it as such, so now I'm at a loss as to your position.



How does renting equate to being scum, thugs or white trash. Many of the men and women in uniform are renting because their jobs are so transient that it is impractial to purchase a house or condo.
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Firstly, I said renting houses, specifically. Your post is carrying on making grandiose statements about ALL renters of all types of dwellings, which is putting false words in my mouth.



"Renters of houses have turned out to be the scum of the earth in my experience." That was my intent, and can be seen in context, but you all are taking my quotes out of context, leaving just the sentence that you want to use. So if I only get one sentence, I request one that succinctly sums up my intent.



There's a rental house across the street from me. Last night, as almost every night, the man and woman of the house (their marital status and "companions" are mercurial) were shouting at each other, threatening corporal harm and calling the police...who have already been called out several times during their approximately one year stay. One example of the umpteen rental houses I've dwelled near.



If you live in some area where rental houses are populated by saints, I encourage you to step out of your ivory tower and realize that what you see is not indicative of the world at large. My original post



Additionally, you all state that you are arguing against my supposed argument that renting MAKES one into white trash or thugs. This, besides NOT being what I said, is impossible, illogical, and wholly preposterous, which undermines not only your argument but your capacity as an arguer.



Your condemnation of me uses blanket statements, just as you machined my post into, which makes you at a minimum as guilty as I. Please remember that when trying to cast judgment from your high horse.

l



 

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