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Every person has a price. You can honestly say if someone handed you $20 million to lick a toilet seat, you would say no? $1 billion? $1 Trillion?



Tom, you and I are different. Money means nothing. I will not sell my self-respect at any price. However, to save the life of someone I love or to protect my country, I would lick the toilet for free.
 
So Adam, if these "illegals" speak English, how can you tell they are foreigners, let alone illegal?



Totality of the circumstances. No county short of Lehigh county has any measurable quantity or percentage of persons holding a recently immigrated status. Lehigh is about an hour south. Hazleton, Lou Barletta, and their continued fight against II employment and rental practices are a stone's throw away. Throughout the Hazleton process, Hazleton saw a large decrease in the illegal population. Wilkes-Barre is roughly 15 miles north on I81. Wilkes-Barre has a large semi-industrial and no-skilled job base. The voting registry reflects no large influx of any new nationality, despite their presence over the past three to five years. The newspapers--print and video media--have very clearly documented the influx. Folks I know who work at warehouses, local school districts, and local government agencies (e.g., CYS) see the influx. How do I know? You'd have to be a naive fool to think otherwise. I appreciate your quotation marks, however.



The "illegals" are doing jobs that in many cases, Americans won't do at any price. We have become too comfortable in our lives to pick crops in 100-degree heat or do many other unpleasant things.



....



They pay taxes into the government on their wages and are law abiding citizens.



....



Our immigration laws are driving US jobs overseas.



No. As Tom and I said before--pay a fair wage, and folks will work the job.



Corporations seeking to maximize profits are driving these jobs overseas (I know using "corporations" generally reeks of some semi-crazy "it's the corporations maaan!" argument--bear with my generalization). Americans who do not want to pay more are driving these jobs overseas. But, there's a catch 22--Americans working minimum wage jobs, in order to survive, are forced to pay less to maintain their lives. Sadly, corporations need a great profit margin to pacify investors. So, the crap continues.



Generally, I'd agree that most folks, regardless of their background, are law-abiding citizens. With respect to taxes, however--welcome to another large problem I noted before. Amnesty? Okay. But, I want amnesty to include a back calculation of gross income and the proper taxes applied for the time spent in the United States without paying taxes. Can't calculate it? Then based on earning capacity, a standard amount should be applied. All I want is (1) respect for the current laws and (2) bearing of the same burdens all citizens bear.



With respect to the video, again, the second wave of American immigration took place by documentation, proof of health, over time proof of work, and with all of the responsibilities of citizenry borne by those entering the country. I have no problem with folks enjoying the sweet land of liberty. I have a problem, as said before, with those who break laws to do it and who do not contribute to the system that gives them a legal opportunity. My, and I can pretty confidently say most, ancestors did it the right way.



That being said, I think we've each made clear our position and driven this discussion into the ground. They say to never mix religion or politics with friends. We did. It's probably best we let it go.
 
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Tom, you and I are different. Money means nothing. I will not sell my self-respect at any price. However, to save the life of someone I love or to protect my country, I would lick the toilet for free.



You just proved my point. Everyone has a price. A price not only includes money.



Just for the record, I would lick a toilet to save the life of a total stranger, even someone I absolutly hate.





Tom
 
No. As Tom and I said before--pay a fair wage, and folks will work the job.



How much would you have to be paid to work all day in the hot sun, bent over, picking the agricultural crop of your choice? I bet it would be double the amount that is being paid right now. Go to the grocery store. Double every price in the produce section. Who can afford that? So now your dollar buys less and the folks that are doing this now still low paying job can not afford anything either. I am not saying hiring illegal immigrants is right, but the "pay me a fair wage" is not useful.



Politicians that can only offer put up a wall to keep illegal immigrants out are about as useful as the ones that can only come up with a campaign slogan of no new taxes. If the issues were this easy this would be Utopia.
 
AdamCKach. If you think the illegals at Walmart are bad up there you should go to one down here in Texas. If there were no illegals I'm not sure there would be any Walmarts.

If you don't see what the illegals are doing to our country then your blind. Me, I would just like to be able to make a phone call and not have to press 1 for english.

 
Me, I would just like to be able to make a phone call and not have to press 1 for english.



Bingo! The parts of my family that moved here from abroad had to learn the language to fit in. I hate the fact that I have to press 1 to hear things in English.



Come here leaglly and I say welcome! Come here illegally and I say get the Hell out!
 
How much would you have to be paid to work all day in the hot sun, bent over, picking the agricultural crop of your choice? I bet it would be double the amount that is being paid right now. Go to the grocery store. Double every price in the produce section. Who can afford that? So now your dollar buys less and the folks that are doing this now still low paying job can not afford anything either. I am not saying hiring illegal immigrants is right, but the "pay me a fair wage" is not useful.



Do you think the whole "Supply and demand" free economy we have in the USA dictate what we are willing to pay, buy, and work for? If you are not willing to pay $20.00 for a head of lettuce, then I guess we will go without it. If it costs us $100.00/meal because of labor, then so be it. Hiring illegals to artificially keep our prices low is not doing us any favors in the long run. Sure, at the moment we will save a few bucks, but we will still end up paying for it.



Lets look at the cost of energy. Our energy costs have gone up. From gasoline, heating oil and gas, electricity, and coal. Metals are at record highs. Gold is expensive and the price of platinum is obscene.



At the same time, we buy good from China at next to nothing. We are saving money at one end. Clothing, tools, toys, etc. are cheap. Other things are getting more expensive. We are artificially keeping the prices of some things low, only to bring the cost of other stuff up at a faster rate that it would normally go.



How much money are we actually saving if we save 1 buck here, but spend an extra buck there?



Nothing.



When we undermine our economy by allowing outside influences toaffect it, in the end we will all lose.





Tom
 
Not going to even try the illegal conversation, but back to the original thread.....



I rarely shop at WalMart any more unless everything else is closed. It has gotten to the point that they have so few registers open and the lines are so long, it is not worth my time. I can go to the Kroger or Food Lion and pay even double the price and still save money when you consider the value of my time. I used to spend about 12k there a year on groceries and misc.



They have completely Mr Sam's vision, and now are purely in it for the money. I wrote a nice letter of complaint to the management of my local store in Va Bch concerning the fact that so many registers were closed (even those that say "open from xx to xx") and got a response back that basically implied I was incorrect. I guess I should have sent photo's also.



To bad for them, I used to work for them (photo lab) and now won't even shop there unless it is an absolute emergency.
 
:(support your local ma and pa stores.if wal-mart wants to build a store in your back yard they are going to do it .and run all the small business away.dont shop wal-mart.edj.:(
 
Ed says:
support your local ma and pa stores.if wal-mart wants to build a store in your back yard they are going to do it .and run all the small business away.dont shop wal-mart



Another person who has drunk the anti-Wal*Mart Kool Aid.



Try catching the episode of "Penn and Teller's Bull$hit", in which they debunk most of the anti-Wal*Mart claims.



TJR
 
I don't shop at Wal-Mart, but it has nothing to do with their business practices. I don't go there because the only two within a reasonable driving distance feel a bit scary to be in during the day, and feel downright unsafe at night. Poorly lit lots, poorly lit stores, no security in sight, and tons of people (I'm not sure if they're customers or just wanderers) who you don't feel comfortable being within 20 yards of. The "creep" factor is simply way too high...
 
I hate shopping at Walmart. "Discount" prices seem to be on brands I don't care for. Sadly, went there at 12am Saturday, spent more time in line than shopping. I hate that place.
 
I got the point. It is true that they do live in Las Vegas, NV and they DO perform at the Rio.





Tom
 
Nope, Penn and Teller ain't gospel, but given that an overwhelming majority of their shows present coherent, rational, logical portrayals and opinions of the topic at hand, I feel no need to NOT consider what they have to report and say about WalMart to be equally as valid and unbiased.



But then, I like to listen, view, and read opinons from all sides, especially those I might not normally agree with.



TJR
 

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