TomT
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone mentioned living the life of luxury, just not having to work for a living. Your friend just didn't learn how to completely milk the system. Probably didn't have enough dependants.
a good paying job in america
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She has respect for herself and used the system to get back on her feet.
The point is, no matter what there is out there, the is someone that will (ab)use the system.
Tom
The point is, no matter what there is out there, the is someone that will (ab)use the system.
Tom
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Tom, apparently the person you know on welfare didn't get enough payday loans and credit cards to live a life of luxury.
Many folks do, and then they just walk away from their debts and start accumulating more debt later. The system lets them get by with this.
Many folks do, and then they just walk away from their debts and start accumulating more debt later. The system lets them get by with this.
Gavin,
Possibly the system makes it harder to get out of that situation by providing a means to stay in that situation.
Payday loans only target those that can not afford it in the first place.
Tom
Possibly the system makes it harder to get out of that situation by providing a means to stay in that situation.
Payday loans only target those that can not afford it in the first place.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Caymen is right.
We have 3rd and 4th generation welfare recipients living in poor neighborhoods, with their kids going to troubled schools. The neighborhoods have no banks, or shiny new grocery stores or malls; instead they have Rent-A-Centers, liquor stores, bodegas, and check cashing places. There are high crime rates in these areas, and massive unemployment. At least two generation of teens have turned to drug selling and gangs as a means to "survive."
There are minorities of all race and color living in such areas, many blacks, many hispanics. An alarming statistic I recently heard is that 7 of 10 children born to a black woman today in America will be born out of wedlock, and when asked why, the #1 reason is that they are having "welfare babies".
Label me a racist if you want and say it isn't like this everywhere. Note, I never said it was. I am describing the way it is in poor areas of most every large city in America.
So how do we fix this?
I have no great ideas myself.
I think it is a costly problem, but at the same time, I think the fix will be even MORE costly and probably less appealing to many than the current system. I say that because I think that many people have fled the cities for the better life in the suburbs, and they haven't looked back. The jobs left with them. The only real solutions I see is low-income housing in the suburbs, increased mass-transit in the suburbs, and true desegregation and gentrification.
Many of the same people I hear complain about inner-city welfare moms wouldn't want them living next to them in a Habitat for Humanity home, or have the mom's kids in their kids classroom.
TJR
We have 3rd and 4th generation welfare recipients living in poor neighborhoods, with their kids going to troubled schools. The neighborhoods have no banks, or shiny new grocery stores or malls; instead they have Rent-A-Centers, liquor stores, bodegas, and check cashing places. There are high crime rates in these areas, and massive unemployment. At least two generation of teens have turned to drug selling and gangs as a means to "survive."
There are minorities of all race and color living in such areas, many blacks, many hispanics. An alarming statistic I recently heard is that 7 of 10 children born to a black woman today in America will be born out of wedlock, and when asked why, the #1 reason is that they are having "welfare babies".
Label me a racist if you want and say it isn't like this everywhere. Note, I never said it was. I am describing the way it is in poor areas of most every large city in America.
So how do we fix this?
I have no great ideas myself.
I think it is a costly problem, but at the same time, I think the fix will be even MORE costly and probably less appealing to many than the current system. I say that because I think that many people have fled the cities for the better life in the suburbs, and they haven't looked back. The jobs left with them. The only real solutions I see is low-income housing in the suburbs, increased mass-transit in the suburbs, and true desegregation and gentrification.
Many of the same people I hear complain about inner-city welfare moms wouldn't want them living next to them in a Habitat for Humanity home, or have the mom's kids in their kids classroom.
TJR
TomT
Well-Known Member
Hell no I wouldn't. Why? Because they use school strictly as a day car center. Their kids don't care about getting an education and the parent doesn't push it. How would an education help them with welfare? It's been like that for generations and will probably continue to be that way as long as their are people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton that are encouraging them to live off the system rather then break away from it.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
TomT,
Just so we are clear, I was refering to a potential program that sets up a welfare mom with a good job in the suburbs and a low-cost Habitat for Humanity house so that their kids could get a good education and stop the cycle.
So if you wouldn't want them living next to you or their kids going to your school then what answer do you have to solving the problem?
Tom
Just so we are clear, I was refering to a potential program that sets up a welfare mom with a good job in the suburbs and a low-cost Habitat for Humanity house so that their kids could get a good education and stop the cycle.
So if you wouldn't want them living next to you or their kids going to your school then what answer do you have to solving the problem?
Tom
Last edited by a moderator:
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Prevention is the best cure.
Sterilize 'em first before giving 'em welfare.
Sterilize 'em first before giving 'em welfare.
Bill V
Well-Known Member
TJR--A slightly off-topic question:
You used the term "bodega" in your post. I've heard the term used on a few TV shows (such as Law & Order), but either we don't have them in the Twin Cities (or Milwaukee or Chicago), or we call them by another name, as I have no idea what it is, and anyone locally I've asked has equally little knowledge. What is it? Is this the same as an OTB? (Which we also don't have here, but I at least have a vague idea of what that is...)
You used the term "bodega" in your post. I've heard the term used on a few TV shows (such as Law & Order), but either we don't have them in the Twin Cities (or Milwaukee or Chicago), or we call them by another name, as I have no idea what it is, and anyone locally I've asked has equally little knowledge. What is it? Is this the same as an OTB? (Which we also don't have here, but I at least have a vague idea of what that is...)
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Bill V, "bodega" is Spanish word for "storehouse" or "warehouse", typically meaning a mom and pop convenience store on the corner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convenience_store
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodega
TJR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convenience_store
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodega
TJR
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
A big part of the problem is that a big part of the current African-American culture does not value education. Doing well in school is seen as "acting white". (Ooookay, so then doing poorly and being stupid is "acting black"? I'm just saying.....). It isn't white ol' JohnnyO saying that, check Bill Cosby, Chris Rock, Tony Norman, and Walter Williams, just to name four. Jackson and Sharpton are invested in the FAILURE of the black community, not the success...because if there is success, they Jackson and Sharpton are out of a job.
The odds of becoming a brain surgeon are better than the odds of becoming an NFL or NBA player.
"If junior can't read, that's mama's fault. If junior can't read because there ain't no lights in the house, that's daddy's fault." -- Chris Rock
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
Like I've said elsewhere, the decent-paying blue-collar jobs that provided the opportunity for access to the middle class for minorities (heck, everybody) have for the most part been moved to China and the Pacific Rim because of tax, labor, and environmental policies that make that type of work unprofitable or at least too costly to do here. We're left with entry-level service jobs for people with no extra education or training that do not pay much because people will not pay a lot of money for services. I own such a business. Sure I'd like to pay my employees more but there is a limit to how much my customers will pay my company, especially when there are other people doing the same thing under-the-table for half as much money.
Again, in urban areas there is not often not a job for someone even if they wanted one, so it's kind of a vicsious cycle.
Again, in urban areas there is not often not a job for someone even if they wanted one, so it's kind of a vicsious cycle.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
JohnnyO,
I used to work as a contract programmer for a wireless telco that had a big office building in the burbs. They had a whole floor of minority folks they bused in from Philadelphia to staff their call center.
They had problems working in that mode:
- Turnover
- Illiteracy
- Rudeness
- Incoherence
The company ended up outsourcing the call center entirely...not to India, but to Indiana.
I only mention this to indicate that it's not always the lure of lower costs that make people outsource and offshore, often it is coupled with the fact that their current labor pool and solution simply "suck!"
TJR
I used to work as a contract programmer for a wireless telco that had a big office building in the burbs. They had a whole floor of minority folks they bused in from Philadelphia to staff their call center.
They had problems working in that mode:
- Turnover
- Illiteracy
- Rudeness
- Incoherence
The company ended up outsourcing the call center entirely...not to India, but to Indiana.
I only mention this to indicate that it's not always the lure of lower costs that make people outsource and offshore, often it is coupled with the fact that their current labor pool and solution simply "suck!"
TJR
Anyone see the movie "Idiocracy"?
Makes you wonder about stupid people breeding like mice and the smart ones not having kids and what this is bringing in the future..
Tom
Makes you wonder about stupid people breeding like mice and the smart ones not having kids and what this is bringing in the future..
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen, you are the man.
I am watching it this weekend. It just came to my door from Netflix. It looks great.
TJR
I am watching it this weekend. It just came to my door from Netflix. It looks great.
TJR
I laughed so hard, I watched it twice.
Talk about funny!!!
Tom
Talk about funny!!!
Tom
TomT
Well-Known Member
I loved the movie and it's probably a pretty good prediction of our country's future. All you have to do is look at last weeks top 10 TV shows and see American Idol and Dancing with the Stars holding 4 of the 10 spots and you see how ignorant Americans have become.
How about the popular TV show in the movie that all that does is kick guys in the nuts?
I could see that being popular show in the near future.
Tom
I could see that being popular show in the near future.
Tom
TomT
Well-Known Member
LOL. Tom I think that would actually be an improvement over American Idol and Dancing with the Stars. 
