If you get a chance, read the letters about the Ridgeline. Talk about funny. It seems as if the majority of people think the way I do about the Ridgeline.
Tom
Tom
Anyone read Car & Driver?
- Thread starter Tom Schindler
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Tim Turner
Well-Known Member
I saw that too Tom. There were several critical comments about the Ridgeline, especially about Car and Driver's test of compact pickups in the June issue. What I find ironic is there are all these negative comments from readers inside the cover, but on the back is an ad for the Ridgeline.
Teddy GreeneII
Well-Known Member
Don't know squat about it because once I saw it, just turned me off to it. Most of all, it isn't American made. Narrow minded I know, my girl is pissed because we're getting her a new car in a couple of months and she has to pick from US made! oh well............
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
Teddy: guess you missed the other posts here today where we talked about how nothing is really US made when it comes to autos.
shawn stonbraker 2
Well-Known Member
Foriegn or not, it's a Avalanch knockoff.(bodystyle) I don't know why they couldn't come with something original.
I'm not hell bent on buying American, but I do try to make an attempt to when possible. What gets me is those that seem to be bent on buying anything but American. Those folks should never whine at all if their job goes to Mexico or some other foreign country like mine did.
The interesting thing I am finding out about the "made in America" thing is that many times what is really meant is that it is assembled here, and the parts are made in other countries. What really ticked me off is that I went to buy a Wrangler shirt (ya its a western thing), and I just happened to look at the label which said made in Vietnam - I did not buy the shirt. My opinion is that big business is selling this country down the tubes. We have to stop looking entirely at the bottom line of profits, and start balancing profit with employee care.
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
FWIW, the Ridgeline is made here in America with a US parts content higher then that of the ST, or many other "American" models.
Dan Otto
Active Member
Don't get me going on american VS. foreign. I do have a problem with american cars and trucks. 1st foreign, Yes they still have not made a real heavy duty pickup. But that will change and U.S. manufacturers should start putting quality into the picture. Not just strong as an ox. I have trouble with longevity and thoughtfulness in design. I went 70,000 miles with a japanese pickup (not the tacoma, the T100) without a squeak, tie rod, ball joint, brake rotor or pads, broken interior trim, or any of the other possibly 100's of other complaints or fixes necessary on american engineered vehicles. 2nd. Sure my Chevy 2500 HD I had could pull the little truck to pieces, but I didn't have to put $2600 into brakes on the foreign one. American manufacturers need to make the needed changes to produce good stuff. grease fittings on my trac. Too much to ask. T100 had them! I throw out to the metal bin about 15 sets of rotors each day at the Ford dealership I work for. I used to check the milage on them when I was a parts man. Most low milage 15,000 to maybe 40,000 Why 70,00 on the T100?
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Dan Otto
Active Member
Sorry! I should just say I do love my ST. Do not have the T100 nor the Chevy anymore and the trac has squeaks and oddities but no money on repairs as of yet. Looks better than any Ridgeline or Tacoma on the road too.
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
Dan-
I think it all has to do with the Japanese Domestic Market. Over there, owning a car is a great privleage. As a result, the Japanese want to make a car that is worth owning and driving, you know, an honorable car (now there's a foreign concept, eh?). Design, productivity, longevity, etc, all filter thier way from JDM cars, to export/foreign built cars. While here, in the States, almost anyone can buy a car, and there isn't much put into creating a car that people really, really want to buy, because someone will buy it, almost no matter what. Just look at how many K-cars are out there. Only recently have US makers started making cars that people really, really want, cars people are willing to pay outrageous dealer mark-ups on, and not just high-end or performance cars. Everyday cars like the PT Cruiser, Mustang, 300, Magnum, etc. People want these cars, even if they aren't the best on the road, people will pay good money for these cars.
The recent makeover of American cars was the best thing yet for the big three. Now you can have a car that looks good, preforms well, a nice interior, and will (hopefully, still early) last a long time. The Euro's have long been known for ther luxury and performance models, while the Japanese have been known for thier longevity, if bland styling...for whatever reason, the Japanese choose to keep thier highperformance and stylish cars in Japan. American cars for a long time couldn't decide what they wanted to do, high performance at the cost of luxury, longevity at the cost of luxury, or luxury at the cost of performance. Now if they'd just get smart and stop making cars overseas....
I think it all has to do with the Japanese Domestic Market. Over there, owning a car is a great privleage. As a result, the Japanese want to make a car that is worth owning and driving, you know, an honorable car (now there's a foreign concept, eh?). Design, productivity, longevity, etc, all filter thier way from JDM cars, to export/foreign built cars. While here, in the States, almost anyone can buy a car, and there isn't much put into creating a car that people really, really want to buy, because someone will buy it, almost no matter what. Just look at how many K-cars are out there. Only recently have US makers started making cars that people really, really want, cars people are willing to pay outrageous dealer mark-ups on, and not just high-end or performance cars. Everyday cars like the PT Cruiser, Mustang, 300, Magnum, etc. People want these cars, even if they aren't the best on the road, people will pay good money for these cars.
The recent makeover of American cars was the best thing yet for the big three. Now you can have a car that looks good, preforms well, a nice interior, and will (hopefully, still early) last a long time. The Euro's have long been known for ther luxury and performance models, while the Japanese have been known for thier longevity, if bland styling...for whatever reason, the Japanese choose to keep thier highperformance and stylish cars in Japan. American cars for a long time couldn't decide what they wanted to do, high performance at the cost of luxury, longevity at the cost of luxury, or luxury at the cost of performance. Now if they'd just get smart and stop making cars overseas....
Dan Otto
Active Member
So.... We are learning! Good. THen the 2007 St will be a gem. Thanks Tiger.
Thanks Tiger. David Crockett
Active Member
There is a similar discussion in the "Must say goodbye" posting a few links below this one. I put a few comments similar to Tiger's in there if anyone cares to read my rantings.
Teddy GreeneII
Well-Known Member
Darin, I did miss the posts but at the same time, it's my money and even though of course some of it goes where it goes, I'd rather it stay here even if it is to the corporations. I have to believe that by purchasing American made products its good for Americans. We make security products, before all the trade agreements there where 15 different companies that did what we do. Now there are two. We went from employing 85 people to 30 in the span of 2 years. People that don't care will buy something made in China for $1.10 instead of paying $1.32 to buy American. It's their money and they can do with it what they want. I know its a loosing battle these days but I don't see the point in sending my money to Japan. Im not trying to soap box it, but after having to let go people that have worked for us and fed our family for 12-15 years, it tends to jade your "global consience" a little bit.
On "American made"
- Automation is putting labor out of the picture - or it will soon.
Ohio Honda plant is heavy into automation. Labor and materials is small part of the picture. IMHO product development and stock ownership are much more important when defining the origin of a vehicle. You buy an "American made" Honda and the profits go back to Japan. The product development was done in Japan by Japanese engineers and designers (well sometimes Japanese automakers have US styling studios - with American designers working for JP bosses...)
If you buy a Ford - it is American - regardless of "domestic content" or assembly location.
- Automation is putting labor out of the picture - or it will soon.
Ohio Honda plant is heavy into automation. Labor and materials is small part of the picture. IMHO product development and stock ownership are much more important when defining the origin of a vehicle. You buy an "American made" Honda and the profits go back to Japan. The product development was done in Japan by Japanese engineers and designers (well sometimes Japanese automakers have US styling studios - with American designers working for JP bosses...)
If you buy a Ford - it is American - regardless of "domestic content" or assembly location.
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen this month's issue yet since I am out-of-town.
We all will whine if my job is out-sourced to a foreign company. (Look in my profile if you don't know what I do!)
We all will whine if my job is out-sourced to a foreign company. (Look in my profile if you don't know what I do!)
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Scott,
First of all I hate Honda's. So I can not be fair about my assesment. I will try to be as fair as I can. I am saying this with little to no bias towards Ford vehicles. My father retired from Ford Motor Company with 43 1/2 years of service. Ford gave my father and his family a good life. He gets to enjoy his retirement. Ford sends dad a pension check once a month. Dad does very well. He earned it.
With that being said, here are my thoughts about the Ridgeline.
First off, the vehicle is ugly. Looks are subjective, so I wont dwell on it.
Second of all, it is a FWD vehicle with a driveshaft going to the rear wheels. We know how "recomended" FWD vehicles are for towing.
Honda calls it a 1/2 ton truck. Compare that to a real 1/2 ton truck, and you will clearly see it is not a 1/2 ton truck. When an F-150 has a maximim towing of 9900 LBS and a payload capacity of 2000 LBS, the Ridgeline is not a 1/2 ton truck.
A Ranger is rated to tow, IIRC, about 6,000 LBS, compared to the Ridgeline's 5,000 LBS. Again, the Ranger is not a 1/2 ton truck and was never ment to be, yet Honda calls the Ridgeling a 1/2 ton truck.
The Ridgeline has a mini spare. Sure, the Ranger comes with a mini spare, but ONLY if you do not get the towing package, it has a full size spare. Imagine having a trailer loaded with a car or something on it. Would you feel safe using a 50/50/50 tire to support that weight. (I call donut spare tires 50/50/50. 50 miles per hour, 50 miles, and a 50% chance you arent going to make it)
The swing away tailgate is a nice idea. I don't know how many people are actually going to use it both ways. It might be something people like, then again, maybe nobody will ever use it.
The AWD system. Since most SUV's never see off-road, it would make sense to have an AWD system. On a truck, get real. people use trucks for different purposes. No 4x4 low range, again, it is just showing what the Ridgeline really is, a Honda Pilot.
Nobody owning a Ridgeline will abuse it like I abuse my Trac. If they do, they will be facing some EXPENSIVE repairs to the drivetrain.
The little things are gimmicks. The trunk in the bed. How many here actually ever wanted a trunk under the bed? The only good thing it can be used for is stuffing it full of ice and drinks. For that, I have a cooler I can plug into my Trac's bed. When I go into a hotel room, I can plug the cooler into the 110V in the room and keep my drinks handy when I want one.
Personally, Honda is biting off more then they can chew. The originally Oddysey was a hybrid between an mini-van and a station wagon. They quickly learned, it didn't work. The Oddysey is a full blown mini-van, or as I call them a Yupee Bus.
My prediction, with three years, the Ridgeline will be replaced by a real truck and Honda will enter the truck market with a 3/8 ton truck, but call it a 3/4 ton. As it looks like, the Ridgeline is really a 1/4 ton truck. 1/2 the payload of an F-150, half the towing of an F-150. Half of 1/2 ton is 1/4 ton.
Tom
First of all I hate Honda's. So I can not be fair about my assesment. I will try to be as fair as I can. I am saying this with little to no bias towards Ford vehicles. My father retired from Ford Motor Company with 43 1/2 years of service. Ford gave my father and his family a good life. He gets to enjoy his retirement. Ford sends dad a pension check once a month. Dad does very well. He earned it.
With that being said, here are my thoughts about the Ridgeline.
First off, the vehicle is ugly. Looks are subjective, so I wont dwell on it.
Second of all, it is a FWD vehicle with a driveshaft going to the rear wheels. We know how "recomended" FWD vehicles are for towing.
Honda calls it a 1/2 ton truck. Compare that to a real 1/2 ton truck, and you will clearly see it is not a 1/2 ton truck. When an F-150 has a maximim towing of 9900 LBS and a payload capacity of 2000 LBS, the Ridgeline is not a 1/2 ton truck.
A Ranger is rated to tow, IIRC, about 6,000 LBS, compared to the Ridgeline's 5,000 LBS. Again, the Ranger is not a 1/2 ton truck and was never ment to be, yet Honda calls the Ridgeling a 1/2 ton truck.
The Ridgeline has a mini spare. Sure, the Ranger comes with a mini spare, but ONLY if you do not get the towing package, it has a full size spare. Imagine having a trailer loaded with a car or something on it. Would you feel safe using a 50/50/50 tire to support that weight. (I call donut spare tires 50/50/50. 50 miles per hour, 50 miles, and a 50% chance you arent going to make it
)The swing away tailgate is a nice idea. I don't know how many people are actually going to use it both ways. It might be something people like, then again, maybe nobody will ever use it.
The AWD system. Since most SUV's never see off-road, it would make sense to have an AWD system. On a truck, get real. people use trucks for different purposes. No 4x4 low range, again, it is just showing what the Ridgeline really is, a Honda Pilot.
Nobody owning a Ridgeline will abuse it like I abuse my Trac. If they do, they will be facing some EXPENSIVE repairs to the drivetrain.
The little things are gimmicks. The trunk in the bed. How many here actually ever wanted a trunk under the bed? The only good thing it can be used for is stuffing it full of ice and drinks. For that, I have a cooler I can plug into my Trac's bed. When I go into a hotel room, I can plug the cooler into the 110V in the room and keep my drinks handy when I want one.
Personally, Honda is biting off more then they can chew. The originally Oddysey was a hybrid between an mini-van and a station wagon. They quickly learned, it didn't work. The Oddysey is a full blown mini-van, or as I call them a Yupee Bus.
My prediction, with three years, the Ridgeline will be replaced by a real truck and Honda will enter the truck market with a 3/8 ton truck, but call it a 3/4 ton. As it looks like, the Ridgeline is really a 1/4 ton truck. 1/2 the payload of an F-150, half the towing of an F-150. Half of 1/2 ton is 1/4 ton.
Tom
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
Tom: just because the majority of ppl writing in have bad experiences doesn't mean the 'majority' of ppl feel the way you do. Just like here, how many times does a member write in and say "My Trac ran great today"... instead you get more "My tranny crapped out today".
Darin,
Good point. I would not call the letters calling Car & Driver idots bad experiences. I do say C&D was a little too baised going the Ridgeline. I hate to say this, but either Toyota or Nissan should have won the comparison. Both are actual trucks with a 4x4 low range and a center locking differential. A real frame under the vehicle. The Ridgelines frame is an extra support for the weight, but the original support for the vehicle is a Uni-body.
There is no reason at all that the Honda should have been in first place.
I guess it is no different then some magazine comparing the biggest and baddest 1 ton DRW 4x4 4 door trucks. They compared the Chevy K3500 to the Ford F-350. The Ford was bigger, longer, higher, hauled more, had more power, better brakes, and towed more. The Chevy tied the Ford because it rode better (the reason is did not haul as much), was easier to drive (It was smaller, lighter, had less power), and was more comfortable (It is a work truck for crting out loud).
They came out in a tie. I think Car & Driver forgot that they were comparing trucks, not SUV's.
Those the wrote in agree.
Funny thing is, there was not oe person that supported C&D's pick. You know if one person wrote it, they would have printed it to "defend" thier decision.
Tom
Good point. I would not call the letters calling Car & Driver idots bad experiences. I do say C&D was a little too baised going the Ridgeline. I hate to say this, but either Toyota or Nissan should have won the comparison. Both are actual trucks with a 4x4 low range and a center locking differential. A real frame under the vehicle. The Ridgelines frame is an extra support for the weight, but the original support for the vehicle is a Uni-body.
There is no reason at all that the Honda should have been in first place.
I guess it is no different then some magazine comparing the biggest and baddest 1 ton DRW 4x4 4 door trucks. They compared the Chevy K3500 to the Ford F-350. The Ford was bigger, longer, higher, hauled more, had more power, better brakes, and towed more. The Chevy tied the Ford because it rode better (the reason is did not haul as much), was easier to drive (It was smaller, lighter, had less power), and was more comfortable (It is a work truck for crting out loud).
They came out in a tie. I think Car & Driver forgot that they were comparing trucks, not SUV's.
Those the wrote in agree.
Funny thing is, there was not oe person that supported C&D's pick. You know if one person wrote it, they would have printed it to "defend" thier decision.
Tom
