I would be just as upset if Ford made those commercials and were smashing Toyota's and Honda's.
Tom
Tom
Anyone seen the new Toyota Commercials?
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I laughed
Rocks
Rocks
Eric C 2
Active Member
Seriously? You can't honestly be upset by that, can you? That actually makes me smirk a little that a commercial such as that would cause anyone to be offended. Maybe if you worked for Ford, I could ALMOST understand, but still not quite. As stated above, its advertising. It's part of the game. I'm not understanding how in any way this commercial is going to effect your life? Maybe once I see said commercial I will feel differently, but I highly doubt it.
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Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Sintec,
That's what I thought too. I can't see how anyone can get all offended about a commercial.
I guess if you are a zealot then you can't take any crude knocks against the thing of your zeal. I see this with people that follow sports teams. Sometimes they think another team's actions, or a sign in the stands, or somesuch crosses the line. When that happens they often return the jabs and insults with the like. It's all rather childish, IMHO. I don't get offended by people acting like children, or children for that matter....I just consider the source.
I guess I am just not that passionate about anything like that...not sports, not auto manufacturers, not my God/religion...none of those. They are all fair game for eny level of criticism, satire and parody. The only things in my life that I would protect against such ridicule is my own family...but that's only because they aren't in a spotlight.
Again, I just don't see the drama...but then again, I'm not the zealotous about most things. Not even computer companies, including my own.
TJR
That's what I thought too. I can't see how anyone can get all offended about a commercial.
I guess if you are a zealot then you can't take any crude knocks against the thing of your zeal. I see this with people that follow sports teams. Sometimes they think another team's actions, or a sign in the stands, or somesuch crosses the line. When that happens they often return the jabs and insults with the like. It's all rather childish, IMHO. I don't get offended by people acting like children, or children for that matter....I just consider the source.
I guess I am just not that passionate about anything like that...not sports, not auto manufacturers, not my God/religion...none of those. They are all fair game for eny level of criticism, satire and parody. The only things in my life that I would protect against such ridicule is my own family...but that's only because they aren't in a spotlight.
Again, I just don't see the drama...but then again, I'm not the zealotous about most things. Not even computer companies, including my own.
TJR
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Commercials don't bother me......but when Bush takes over all the network channels and starts his squalking over this,that and the other....now, this is something that gets to me, but soon it will be over TG
Michael Martin
Active Member
I'm actually in 3 local Toyota commercials (Sandy Springs Toyota north of Atlanta). I'd love to post them here (I have the files on my computer), but don't know where they would go!
Dad collects a pension check from Ford.
The old timers here will remember some government showing lemon laws and used a Sport Trac. There was an uproar. Who here remembers that?
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen...regarding lemon laws and the ST...seems appropriate. The tranny in the ST qualifies as a lemon. I know, I won a lemon law suit with that tranny.
If the shoe fits.
TJR
If the shoe fits.
TJR
So, what you are saying that you, as one person, wins a case, that ALL tranny's Explorers are lemons?
I hae no problems with my Tac's tranny so that cancels out yours. I find one more guy without a problem and that means the Sport Trac is not a lemon at all.
Give me a break dude.
Tom
I hae no problems with my Tac's tranny so that cancels out yours. I find one more guy without a problem and that means the Sport Trac is not a lemon at all.
Give me a break dude.
Tom
gary s
Well-Known Member
i have a question. why does toyota even need to advertise 
Jeff C
Well-Known Member
I like my tranny.
WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I was offended by that commercial too.
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen,
Again, did I use the word ALL?
Nope...didn't.
But clearly there have been SOME Explorer and ST lemons out there. Rather than get offended when an ad about Lemon Law shows a Ford, why not instead get offended by Ford putting out lemons.
Yeah, yeah...I know, they aren't ALL lemons; and yeah, yeah, I know, all manufacturers have a few lemons in each production run. But the moment we make excuses and concessions then the bar gets lower and that helps no one.
TJR
Again, did I use the word ALL?
Nope...didn't.
But clearly there have been SOME Explorer and ST lemons out there. Rather than get offended when an ad about Lemon Law shows a Ford, why not instead get offended by Ford putting out lemons.
Yeah, yeah...I know, they aren't ALL lemons; and yeah, yeah, I know, all manufacturers have a few lemons in each production run. But the moment we make excuses and concessions then the bar gets lower and that helps no one.
TJR
TJR,
When you said...
That says that the tranny in the ST qualifies as a lemon is just that. You said that the tranny is a lemon, not your tranny was a lemon.
Tom
When you said...
That says that the tranny in the ST qualifies as a lemon is just that. You said that the tranny is a lemon, not your tranny was a lemon.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen,
And I stand by that.
When a part in a vehicle or a vehicle because of said part has a higher than acceptable rate of defects than it is generally referred to as lemon.
Does that mean all vehicles display the defect...nope.
But you are right in that by the letter of the lemon law you don't have a lemon until you have displayed the defect three times and attempted to fix without resolution that same number of times.
But that doesn't negate the fact that the ST trannies have higher than acceptable incidents of problems (which I am sure you will disagree with) and therefore can generally be described as a lemon.
Ralph Nadar said the Corvair was "Unsafe at any speed!" which clearly isn't 100% factual, but it doesn't negate the fact that the vehicle was unaccetably safe under many conditions.
Sure, not all STs are lemons, but enough of them are that you can make lemonade; enough of them that to see an ST displayed in an ad about the lemon law that one really can't cry "unfair!"; IMHO anyway.
Again, it seems like an example of fabricated drama. I see programs all the time that display stock footage to help tell a story. For example, a story about union corruption might show UAW picket line footage. Does that mean that the UAW is corrupt? Nope. Might some make that association...sure, I guess. If they are a dullard.
TJR
And I stand by that.
When a part in a vehicle or a vehicle because of said part has a higher than acceptable rate of defects than it is generally referred to as lemon.
Does that mean all vehicles display the defect...nope.
But you are right in that by the letter of the lemon law you don't have a lemon until you have displayed the defect three times and attempted to fix without resolution that same number of times.
But that doesn't negate the fact that the ST trannies have higher than acceptable incidents of problems (which I am sure you will disagree with) and therefore can generally be described as a lemon.
Ralph Nadar said the Corvair was "Unsafe at any speed!" which clearly isn't 100% factual, but it doesn't negate the fact that the vehicle was unaccetably safe under many conditions.
Sure, not all STs are lemons, but enough of them are that you can make lemonade; enough of them that to see an ST displayed in an ad about the lemon law that one really can't cry "unfair!"; IMHO anyway.
Again, it seems like an example of fabricated drama. I see programs all the time that display stock footage to help tell a story. For example, a story about union corruption might show UAW picket line footage. Does that mean that the UAW is corrupt? Nope. Might some make that association...sure, I guess. If they are a dullard.
TJR
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You said "The tranny in the ST qualifies as a lemon".
That says all.
I will not entertain this any longer.
Tom
That says all.
I will not entertain this any longer.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen,
Right...there is no reasoning with you because you have long ago convinced yourself that the king has clothes. When it comes the the ST tranny, the king has no clothes.
You refuse to acknowledge that there is an ST tranny issue, and that it is pretty bad. But then it isn't the first time that you can't think objectively due to your allegiance. But don’t despair…few people can do that (see past their mental model, their value systems, and question and observe objectively those things so close to them).
If you seriously don't think there is (was) ST tranny issues then we might was well call it quits now for this thread.
TJR
Right...there is no reasoning with you because you have long ago convinced yourself that the king has clothes. When it comes the the ST tranny, the king has no clothes.
You refuse to acknowledge that there is an ST tranny issue, and that it is pretty bad. But then it isn't the first time that you can't think objectively due to your allegiance. But don’t despair…few people can do that (see past their mental model, their value systems, and question and observe objectively those things so close to them).
If you seriously don't think there is (was) ST tranny issues then we might was well call it quits now for this thread.
TJR
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This post was never about Lemons, your lemon law case that you "won", about TJR, or anything else about you.
Believe it or not, the earth rotates around the sun, not TJR. I know it sounds outrageous, but it is true.
Read all about it below.
Tom
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Dingo
Well-Known Member
<img src="http://www.walgreens.com/dbimagecache/321369.jpg">
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen,
You are the one that brought up STs being associated with the lemon law, not me. So now to admonish me that this thread was never about lemons seems kind of off-base.
I'm aware what this thread is about. It's seems to be a mock attempt at offense on your part, feigned in order to hide your thinly veiled contempt for Toyota...a company you seem to detest if for no other reason than they continually eat Ford's lunch.
That’s the way I read your thread, and your responses to others that couldn’t understand any genuine offense at the commercial.
Your sarcasm is uncalled for. You know what they say about sarcasm...they being some people, not all people....just to clear that up.
TJR
You are the one that brought up STs being associated with the lemon law, not me. So now to admonish me that this thread was never about lemons seems kind of off-base.
I'm aware what this thread is about. It's seems to be a mock attempt at offense on your part, feigned in order to hide your thinly veiled contempt for Toyota...a company you seem to detest if for no other reason than they continually eat Ford's lunch.
That’s the way I read your thread, and your responses to others that couldn’t understand any genuine offense at the commercial.
Your sarcasm is uncalled for. You know what they say about sarcasm...they being some people, not all people....just to clear that up.
TJR
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