Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter what his title is, if they are trying to get you to part with your money, they are a salesperson.
Bad leasing experience- Advice
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Doesn't matter what his title is, if they are trying to get you to part with your money, they are a salesperson.
Gavin,
Not true. When you get to the Finance manager, the sale has already been negotiated and the price has been agreed on. They may offer different financing options, which you can take or leave if you are making a purchase....If you are leasing, you have already agreed to the price of the vehicle and everything else is pretty much fixed and there is nothing else to negotiate.
The mistake was made by the Financial Manager who should have known that the A-Plan required valid proof that he was eligible for the A-Plan....Not even sure how he thought wings00192 was buying/leasing on the A-Plan.
I know these kinds of things happen all too often and nearly always it's the fault of the Finance Manager. I think that's why most contracts allow up to 7 days for the dealer to review the paperwork and correct any errors. Most owners will bite the bullet on small errors and not ask the buyer to pay the difference, but on really big errors, they will want the buyer to pay at least a portion of the difference.
As I said before, it happened to me. The owner of the dealership paid the $250 lease turn-in fee that Ford had promised would be waived, but failed to mention that it required me to finance the new vehicle through Ford Credit. This all happened about 3 weeks after I made the purchase and turminaged the old lease. The reason the Salesmanager called me was because the Finance Manager that did my paperwork was no longer working at the dealership. In my case all the paperwork was fine but Ford Credit said I still owed the $250 turn in fee...The owner said that was BS and he agreed to send Ford Credit a check for $250 to pay off and close my account.
...Rich
Not true. When you get to the Finance manager, the sale has already been negotiated and the price has been agreed on. They may offer different financing options, which you can take or leave if you are making a purchase....If you are leasing, you have already agreed to the price of the vehicle and everything else is pretty much fixed and there is nothing else to negotiate.
The mistake was made by the Financial Manager who should have known that the A-Plan required valid proof that he was eligible for the A-Plan....Not even sure how he thought wings00192 was buying/leasing on the A-Plan.
I know these kinds of things happen all too often and nearly always it's the fault of the Finance Manager. I think that's why most contracts allow up to 7 days for the dealer to review the paperwork and correct any errors. Most owners will bite the bullet on small errors and not ask the buyer to pay the difference, but on really big errors, they will want the buyer to pay at least a portion of the difference.
As I said before, it happened to me. The owner of the dealership paid the $250 lease turn-in fee that Ford had promised would be waived, but failed to mention that it required me to finance the new vehicle through Ford Credit. This all happened about 3 weeks after I made the purchase and turminaged the old lease. The reason the Salesmanager called me was because the Finance Manager that did my paperwork was no longer working at the dealership. In my case all the paperwork was fine but Ford Credit said I still owed the $250 turn in fee...The owner said that was BS and he agreed to send Ford Credit a check for $250 to pay off and close my account.
...Rich
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
I think what Gavin is trying to say (sorry if I am putting words in your mouth) is that it really doesn't matter who made the mistake, someone has to make it right, assure you that its not going to be an issue, make sure the mistake doesn't happen in the first place, and in an ideal world, that person should be the person you spent all the face-time with...the salesperson.
RichardL is correct that in most all dealerships there is this back and forth between sales person, finance manager, etc, and each has their own responsibilities.
Regardless, a mistake was made. The mistake needs to be fixed.
Personally, I LOATHE dealing with all the various people I have to deal with when buying a new car. I actually think a deliberate part of the problem dynamic is the fact that there is no longer "one guy" you buy a car from, but there are several. Because of this dynamic there is always finger-pointing, this adversarial dynamic ("I would like to give you this deal, but my finance guy won't let me"), and the opportunity for mistakes to be made/overlooked.
This is why the last three new cars I have bought I did my test drives, got my pricing from Edmunds, got my financing from eLoans, got my rebate info and dealer invoice info over the phone/fax, and then made my FIRST and FINAL offer over the phone. Dealt with one person and told that person that I didn't want to talk with anyone else, and when we agreed to a price I told them to "have all the paperwork and people ready...you have 30 minutes to finalize the deal and I will be driving away from the lot in exactly 30 minutes from the time I walk in the door, either in my old car or a new one!"
Yeah, I'm not a favorite for car dealers, but if the truth really is what they say, that they only make a few hundred dollars on each car sold, then I'm not a time-sucking tire kicker either.
TJR
RichardL is correct that in most all dealerships there is this back and forth between sales person, finance manager, etc, and each has their own responsibilities.
Regardless, a mistake was made. The mistake needs to be fixed.
Personally, I LOATHE dealing with all the various people I have to deal with when buying a new car. I actually think a deliberate part of the problem dynamic is the fact that there is no longer "one guy" you buy a car from, but there are several. Because of this dynamic there is always finger-pointing, this adversarial dynamic ("I would like to give you this deal, but my finance guy won't let me"), and the opportunity for mistakes to be made/overlooked.
This is why the last three new cars I have bought I did my test drives, got my pricing from Edmunds, got my financing from eLoans, got my rebate info and dealer invoice info over the phone/fax, and then made my FIRST and FINAL offer over the phone. Dealt with one person and told that person that I didn't want to talk with anyone else, and when we agreed to a price I told them to "have all the paperwork and people ready...you have 30 minutes to finalize the deal and I will be driving away from the lot in exactly 30 minutes from the time I walk in the door, either in my old car or a new one!"
Yeah, I'm not a favorite for car dealers, but if the truth really is what they say, that they only make a few hundred dollars on each car sold, then I'm not a time-sucking tire kicker either.
TJR
TJR,
I agree with you that some steps should be taken to insure these kind of mistakes don't continue to happen.
Not to stick up for any dealership, salesman or Financial Manager, but with all the plans and financial arrangements to keep up with, it can be a very tasking and difficult to keep up with all the changes. The car manufacturers could make this a lot easier by prescreening all the sales/leasing paperwork on the computer to insure that when the buyer signs, that all the paperwork is correct. This is not much different than tax software like TurboTax, etc.
The software would be able to handle all the various types of sales and verify that eligibility for any special sales plans and incentive are presented at the time of the sale or they will not be allowed. Simply entering the Buyers Plan pin number would be sufficient proof.
Of course this will not prevent the Financial manager from putting in the wrong sales price for the vehicle, or typing in the wrong amount for the trade-in, or cash downpayment etc. but if these amounts are keyed into the terminal, and the final totals don't agree, the computer could easily catch most of those keying errors.
Once the software verifies that the sale documentation is accurate and valid, and the buy signs and accepts the vehicle, the deal is done and the dealer cannot later claim that they made a mistake. If the dealer made the mistake, he eats the loss. If Ford's software made the mistake, Ford eats the loss.
That would also simplify the sales contract and should eliminate all the fine print that most people don't read, but allows the dealership and manufacture wiggle out of any lawsuits or claim the contract had errors and therefore invalid.
...Rich
I agree with you that some steps should be taken to insure these kind of mistakes don't continue to happen.
Not to stick up for any dealership, salesman or Financial Manager, but with all the plans and financial arrangements to keep up with, it can be a very tasking and difficult to keep up with all the changes. The car manufacturers could make this a lot easier by prescreening all the sales/leasing paperwork on the computer to insure that when the buyer signs, that all the paperwork is correct. This is not much different than tax software like TurboTax, etc.
The software would be able to handle all the various types of sales and verify that eligibility for any special sales plans and incentive are presented at the time of the sale or they will not be allowed. Simply entering the Buyers Plan pin number would be sufficient proof.
Of course this will not prevent the Financial manager from putting in the wrong sales price for the vehicle, or typing in the wrong amount for the trade-in, or cash downpayment etc. but if these amounts are keyed into the terminal, and the final totals don't agree, the computer could easily catch most of those keying errors.
Once the software verifies that the sale documentation is accurate and valid, and the buy signs and accepts the vehicle, the deal is done and the dealer cannot later claim that they made a mistake. If the dealer made the mistake, he eats the loss. If Ford's software made the mistake, Ford eats the loss.
That would also simplify the sales contract and should eliminate all the fine print that most people don't read, but allows the dealership and manufacture wiggle out of any lawsuits or claim the contract had errors and therefore invalid.
...Rich
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Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Finance manager is trying to sell you credit life insurance, higher interest financing, paint shield, fabric shield, extended warranty, optional accessories, etc.
Finance manager gets commission on every add-on he can get you to agree to.
Finance manager sounds like a sales person to me.
Finance manager gets commission on every add-on he can get you to agree to.
Finance manager sounds like a sales person to me.
Gavin,
Credit Life Insurance: Yes, but only if he arranges the financing, and you're dumb enough to accept it.
Higher interest: Only if the customer is dumb enough to use dealer financing instead of pre-arranging their own financing....and then they were probably dumb enough to buy the Credit Life Insurance:banghead:
Unless the dealer is offering low-low interest rates, (0% -1.9%) or you have really bad credit, you can get a better new car loan almost anywhere that beats the dealer's financing
Extended warranty, paint shield, fabric shield, accessories...not where I worked....Salesmen sold those, not the finance manager.
But the issue is not the Salesmen, it was the Finance managers mistake thinking that wings00192 was buying under the A-Plan.
...Rich
Credit Life Insurance: Yes, but only if he arranges the financing, and you're dumb enough to accept it.
Higher interest: Only if the customer is dumb enough to use dealer financing instead of pre-arranging their own financing....and then they were probably dumb enough to buy the Credit Life Insurance:banghead:
Unless the dealer is offering low-low interest rates, (0% -1.9%) or you have really bad credit, you can get a better new car loan almost anywhere that beats the dealer's financing
Extended warranty, paint shield, fabric shield, accessories...not where I worked....Salesmen sold those, not the finance manager.
But the issue is not the Salesmen, it was the Finance managers mistake thinking that wings00192 was buying under the A-Plan.
...Rich
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Around here, the finance manager sells all that crap and pushes hard to do his own financing. The salespeople make the wonderful deal and are your friend, and then the finance manager pulls the "it is only $19 more on your payment for the premiere protection package" crap on the vulnerable buyer when he has already committed in his mind to buy the vehicle and just wants to finish up the paperwork and drive it home. That is how it works at all the dealers around here.
I swear I would trade vehicles more often if it weren't for all the sucking leaches in the sales department who 1. don't even know the vehicles they are selling or their competition, 2. are too lazy to try to find the vehicle you want, but want to sell the pos that has been on their own lot for a year as a demonstrator with 10,000 miles but a new car price; 3.lie, deceive, 4. are not empowered to really make the deal, and 5. who cry that they are losing money on every deal.
This is probably why I happily drove 160 miles into the next state and bought my current '10. My local dealer was too lazy to look for what I wanted. When I found the Trac I wanted on the website at the out of state dealer, the local salesman told me the next day that he called and it had been sold two days earlier. Three weeks I called the out of state dealer to see if they still had it on their lot because it was still showing up on their website. They asked me what it would take to make the deal- I told them, and they had it serviced and cleaned, and the paperwork ready for me. It took me less than 30 minutes to do the deal and I drove it home. The next week, the local salesman called and left a message wanting to know if I was still interested in buying a Sport Trac. I could hardly wait for my lunch hour to drive it down there and show the salesman my new Trac and the paperwork of the deal that he could have had if he would have gotten it for me! Lazy.... :fire:
I would recomment Olathe (Kansas) Ford to anyone wanting to buy a new vehicle! They ROCKED! :love:
I swear I would trade vehicles more often if it weren't for all the sucking leaches in the sales department who 1. don't even know the vehicles they are selling or their competition, 2. are too lazy to try to find the vehicle you want, but want to sell the pos that has been on their own lot for a year as a demonstrator with 10,000 miles but a new car price; 3.lie, deceive, 4. are not empowered to really make the deal, and 5. who cry that they are losing money on every deal.
This is probably why I happily drove 160 miles into the next state and bought my current '10. My local dealer was too lazy to look for what I wanted. When I found the Trac I wanted on the website at the out of state dealer, the local salesman told me the next day that he called and it had been sold two days earlier. Three weeks I called the out of state dealer to see if they still had it on their lot because it was still showing up on their website. They asked me what it would take to make the deal- I told them, and they had it serviced and cleaned, and the paperwork ready for me. It took me less than 30 minutes to do the deal and I drove it home. The next week, the local salesman called and left a message wanting to know if I was still interested in buying a Sport Trac. I could hardly wait for my lunch hour to drive it down there and show the salesman my new Trac and the paperwork of the deal that he could have had if he would have gotten it for me! Lazy.... :fire:
I would recomment Olathe (Kansas) Ford to anyone wanting to buy a new vehicle! They ROCKED! :love:
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Gavin,
Like I said, you don't have to deal with any of that crap if you just pre-arrange your own financing before you buy the vehicle.
When I bought my 2003 Sport Trac, I found the vehicle I wanted at a dealership about 100 miles away. It was an XLT model with all the equipment I wanted and it had a lot of factory discounted equipment. That made the price $1200 less than any similar equiped Sport Trac that I could find at any other dealer within a 120 mile radius.
I went to my local dealer told them what I wanted, and where the vehicle was located. Of course they said they were not sure if they could get it, so I told them that I can just as easliy drive up to the dealer that had the Sport Trac that I wanted and buy it directly from them.
Later that day the dealer called me and said they arranged to trade with that dealer. That dealer wanted an F150 that my local dealer had. A few days later the new Sport Trac arrived at my local dealer and I went there with my own financing (check in hand). The finance manager wanted to see if he could get me a better deal on financing, while I looked over the new Sport Trac and turned in my old leased 2001 Sport Trac. He could not even come close the low interest financing that I pre-arranged...I never told him what rate I was getting but the best he could do was still 50% higher than my pre-arrange loan.
This was the deal where they later claimed that the waiving of my lease turn-in fee only applied if I financed my new truck through Ford Credit, but this was several weeks after the deal was done and the Owner agreed to pay my turn-in fee.
Since then, I have purchased 3 new cars by pre-arranging my own financing and never got any high pressure sales pitches to buy other crap I did not want.
...Rich
Like I said, you don't have to deal with any of that crap if you just pre-arrange your own financing before you buy the vehicle.
When I bought my 2003 Sport Trac, I found the vehicle I wanted at a dealership about 100 miles away. It was an XLT model with all the equipment I wanted and it had a lot of factory discounted equipment. That made the price $1200 less than any similar equiped Sport Trac that I could find at any other dealer within a 120 mile radius.
I went to my local dealer told them what I wanted, and where the vehicle was located. Of course they said they were not sure if they could get it, so I told them that I can just as easliy drive up to the dealer that had the Sport Trac that I wanted and buy it directly from them.
Later that day the dealer called me and said they arranged to trade with that dealer. That dealer wanted an F150 that my local dealer had. A few days later the new Sport Trac arrived at my local dealer and I went there with my own financing (check in hand). The finance manager wanted to see if he could get me a better deal on financing, while I looked over the new Sport Trac and turned in my old leased 2001 Sport Trac. He could not even come close the low interest financing that I pre-arranged...I never told him what rate I was getting but the best he could do was still 50% higher than my pre-arrange loan.
This was the deal where they later claimed that the waiving of my lease turn-in fee only applied if I financed my new truck through Ford Credit, but this was several weeks after the deal was done and the Owner agreed to pay my turn-in fee.
Since then, I have purchased 3 new cars by pre-arranging my own financing and never got any high pressure sales pitches to buy other crap I did not want.
...Rich
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
I always have my USAA financing pre-arranged with a sight draft in my pocket when I buy a car. I think that really makes them mad that they cannot do the financing and get deeper into my pockets. However, they do try to sell all the extended warranties, paint sealent, road service, fabric guard, add-on accessories, etc. Some dealers make the buyer sign an agreement that they were presented with these "opportunities" and declined them.
Gavin,
Don't sign them...its a waste of time. If they claim they can't complete the deal unless you sign that you decline all their extra crap, just walk away. You are buying a car and you have the money/check in your pocket to pay for it...that's all they need to know and you don't have to sign for anything you declined to buy
That's why I did not sit in the financial manager's office while he was filling out the papers or trying to find a better interest rate. I was never asked to sign any papers related to declining anything since none of those were presented to me, and I would not have signed them if they were.
I did not even stay in the Finance Manager's office while he was preparing the paper work...I was looking over the truck I was buying to insure there was nothing wrong...(It was missing the berber mats, they had to order them). And the salesman had to check out my leased 2001 Sport Trac for turn-in...no problems there it was immaculate. I did have someone key the back fender (a big 4 ft long scratch, but I must have done a great job with the touchup paint because he really looked over the truck very carefully but never noticed it. I was really nervous since I could see it just barely, but I think I was the only one who could see it, only because I knew it was there and exactly where it was :grin:
...Rich
Don't sign them...its a waste of time. If they claim they can't complete the deal unless you sign that you decline all their extra crap, just walk away. You are buying a car and you have the money/check in your pocket to pay for it...that's all they need to know and you don't have to sign for anything you declined to buy
That's why I did not sit in the financial manager's office while he was filling out the papers or trying to find a better interest rate. I was never asked to sign any papers related to declining anything since none of those were presented to me, and I would not have signed them if they were.
I did not even stay in the Finance Manager's office while he was preparing the paper work...I was looking over the truck I was buying to insure there was nothing wrong...(It was missing the berber mats, they had to order them). And the salesman had to check out my leased 2001 Sport Trac for turn-in...no problems there it was immaculate. I did have someone key the back fender (a big 4 ft long scratch, but I must have done a great job with the touchup paint because he really looked over the truck very carefully but never noticed it. I was really nervous since I could see it just barely, but I think I was the only one who could see it, only because I knew it was there and exactly where it was :grin:
...Rich
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Cool!:banana:
Kevin Palmer
Well-Known Member
I'm with Rich...
Every contract I have ever signed has noted a specific time, (normally 7 work days), that there can be a change or a correction.
I have seen cases where your trade-in was no longer available. And,,, they are protected from that as well. Reason is, the contract (no matter the error) was done in good faith. As it was done with no intended deceit, what they did with your previous vehicle really does no play into the present issue.
That said, if they do take the new vehicle back, you can renegotiate for a new/used vehicle. However, you will be responsible for the cost of your trade in until you have a good completed contract.
Every contract I have ever signed has noted a specific time, (normally 7 work days), that there can be a change or a correction.
I have seen cases where your trade-in was no longer available. And,,, they are protected from that as well. Reason is, the contract (no matter the error) was done in good faith. As it was done with no intended deceit, what they did with your previous vehicle really does no play into the present issue.
That said, if they do take the new vehicle back, you can renegotiate for a new/used vehicle. However, you will be responsible for the cost of your trade in until you have a good completed contract.
