Buyer Beware update

[Jim Burch]

I think his reply was needed to give others a listen to both sides of the story only think it should have been given before it was allowed to get to this point.:angry:

 

[TomT]

You have my apology Wfoy for doubting you but in all fairness you let this go to long without responding. Although I respect your desire to handle this personally, it became a big issue after repeated posts by snss3. I don't think we needed to hear any of the details, just a response saying that you were dealing with the problem and not just ignoring him. That would have been enough for me.

 

[Adam Yee]

As he mentioned WFoy tried to deal with this "off site". As many would.. who needs hundreds of other members to know about this.



I've personally had issues with having items shipped to me from the US to Canada. I ordered a set of off road driving lights from a store in the US in March 2005. I recieved the lights in a beat to crap box, with Customs tape all over it. It was resealed, repacked and I finally recieved them in October 2005. I understood there was nothing the seller was able to do as customs had held the package for over 6 months.



I luckily asked for the additional insurance, canadapost covered the damages and replaced my lights without any hassle.

 

[Fudged Undies]

TomT, that was implied by the fact that snss3 got half his money back, in the previous thread.



Just seems like he/she wasn't satisfied with that outcome and decided posting here may get them the rest. I don't think snss3 listed the details of the sale, referring to insuring the package, but if he/she didn't insure it, seems the risk is on his/her part and all things considered getting half back is pretty decent deal(if not insured). If there was insurance, seems this never would've been an issue.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Thanks, WFoy for the info. I never assumed a p2p shipping issue should have anything to do with Hypnotical Illusions reputation, persay, nor make WFoy any less of a man. There are two sides to every story, and with third-parties in the middle (shipping and customs) we may NEVER know what happened to the package in question when enroute.



Let's all remember folks that though we would like the customer to always be right, and the merchant or corp is typically to blame, sometimes bad things just happen that are outside of our control and remedying these situtations don't necessarily happen over night, nor do they need to happen in this public forum.



The fact that WFoy DID have such a great reputation and has done so much for so many SHOULD have given him the benefit of the doubt and not let this turn into a feeding frenzy. I sensed the frenzy and that is why I asked my question above (might there be some reason why WFoy hasn't replied here).



Then, violia, he replied. Maybe he just didn't want to reply when everyone was sticking virtual fingers in his eyes.



TJR

 

[Todd Z]

This is a tough spot, Both seller and buyer are out money.

The package was packaged properly, Obviously opened and re closed, The buyer did not want insurance.



The seller is selling used parts, not something that is replaceable.

I Know Wayne refunded $45 of the total $90 cost for the package with shipping.



MY QUESTIONS are this...



Does everyone feel that is enough money was refunded now hearing Wayne's side, Or do you think more should be refunded???



And second what would that amount be if yes??



It is easy for me to spend other peoples money



BUT I did have a similar issue with my hot sauce being broken ( JOSH L) , Even the grease caps on my EE brackets, I replaced them because this was a NEW product.



If something was used and now cant be replaced, I would not know what to do..





AGAIN it is easy for me to spend some one Else's money...



I think since these where used parts and now cant be replaced, Actually I don't know.. I think I am rambling now... I will stop...

Todd Z

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Isn't damage during shipping the kind of thing the buyer should pay insurance for?



TJR

 

[Fred]

If Wayne packaged the stuff correctly (which I'd be willing to bet he did) and customs opened the boxes and repackaged the items back improperly, I wouldn't think Wayne should have to refund anything. That's what insurance is for isn't it? JMHO.

 

[Fred]

Hey! that's what I said! :lol: Slow typist.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Great minds think alike, Fred. Wayne was a nice guy giving ANYTHING back. He shipped, he did his part, the stuff got delivered, in a state other than what he shipped it; that's where insurance covers things caused in-transit.

 

[Todd Z]

TJR,

Yes and in not doing so technically the buyer is fully responsible for the items, even though he did not pack them, SO if the items where not packaged properly, it almost gives the seller and out not to package something improperly...



As I said in my first post, the item was not insured, The border "police" opened it, inspected and repacked, not caring about it because it had no insurance....



IF this was an EBAY deal, both would have NEG feedback and life would go on..

Todd Z

 

[Thomas Rogers]

OPPS, Sorry, I reread your post ToddZ; removing my reply.



TJR

 

[Chops]

Wayne what's disheartening is you let it go on so long without replying, knowing all along the right thing to do is to give him a full refund. This isn't p2p, you're a company.



No you can't remove yourself from your business, you are the business.

Sure you first and foremost want to take this offline, but you didn't satisfy the customer, and I can't blame him. Obviously you knew this was going on, you have people talking to you about it on the telephone.



Live and learn, it's the cost of doing business. Don't ship to Canada next time if you're not prepared to take some inherrent hassles.

You have lost far beyond the $45 - in new business - who knows how many lurkers that aren't even members have read through this?



Refund his money and move on.

 

[Fred]

I really do hate what happened for snss3, but I don't think Wayne would be anything other than upfront and honest in any transaction.

 

[Fred]

After reading Chops response, I'd say always insist on insurance.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Chops says:

...knowing all along the right thing to do is to give him a full refund. This isn't p2p, you're a company.

Though I understand your points, Chops, and agree with them to a certain point; as a small business owner myself I have to think that Wayne, I and other small business owners SHOULD be allowed the luxury of having PERSONAL BUSINESS and COMPANY BUSINESS seperate.



This was personal business for WFoy. He didn't choose to make this public or associated with his business, and he didn't owe anyone a public response.



Though I understand HOW one's business and personal lives can and do reflect on one another, that's ALL it is; a reflection. At best a reflection as to character.



This was a p2p transaction, Wayne refunded 1/2 the money when there was no true obligation to do such, and that speaks a lot about his personal character, IMHO.



As for Wayne not responding here in a timely fashion and that possibly hurting his business; again, there should have been no need for him to respond publically on a personal transaction, and more people should have recognized that up front and responded in that way, rather than speculate and begin to criticize.



In many ways people used this public place as a mechanism to rake a businessman over the coals for something going on in his personal life, and for that, I take offense.



TJR

 

[Todd Z]

Group hug ?????

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Insurance would have solved this before it was an issue. I have sold literally hundreds of things. Many of which have crossed various borders. Unless the item is very cheap or easily replaceable I will not ship over any border without insurance. I bought a Piano from Canada, (Shipped to Ohio). They open it, x-rayed, removed a panel even. They repacked it sufficiently but not as good as the seller did. Fortunately, nothing went wrong other than customs charged me $50.00 outright for the service of the inspection, (that was a surprise). Could not get it delivered until I paid the $50.00 additional dollars.



Bottom line, seller did not want insurance on a hard to replace item. It is a risk he chose to take. Wfoy being in the business could have pushed the issue but it probably would have cost him the sale.



Over all, tuff spot for everyone. If your talking strictly business and no emotions Wayne did his part. I think Customs created the issue. No way you will get money from them though, just won't happen.



My suggestion. If it crosses a border then mandatory insurance...

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Q, this might be a first. But I do agree with you under the circumstances... LOL

 

[Todd Z]

Me TOO!!!!

Q out