caymen, this one is for you.......

[gary s]

who dropped to 23rd???? :haveabeer:

 

[Richard L]

While I don't always agree with J D Power's, it is a shame to see Ford falling back to their old "F O R D= Fix Or Repair Daily". They always seem to do that. They put in a few good years of good quality vehicles, and as soon as they see a boost in their reputation and market share, they start to self distruct?? Remember the old Ford catch phrase: "Quality is Job-1"...Why don't they make that "Permanent"!



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

Actually, Toyota made the larger payment to get onto the top spot.



The drop was because consumers are not bright enough to use the "my ford touch" system. Stupid is as stupid does.



Just hit 211,000 miles on our Explorer and it still runs...





Tom

 

[EddieS'04]

Fords decline in the study is primarily driven by consumers reporting both usability problems and actual functionality problems with the MyFordTouch system, Sargent said. Some consumers are saying the system is, lets be kind here, more complex than they would like.

Lets be real here. I didnt read that the fall was because of major components.

Cars are getting too high tech for the average user. They are forcing these gadgets on us. The true retail of some of this tech is 1000% or more markup.



Im like if you need an I-phone buy it. If you dont. Your buying a marked up technical nuisance...



Some of these factory installed goodies can be a hedache. My Cousin found this out with his new Camaro. Factory auto start and AC from the key fob. Key fob stoped starting the car and it took out more than that. He was stranded 200 miles from home. A dealer got it to start from the key, but. He didnt have time for them to sort out the No AC, no radio, no door locks. Took the dealer back home 2 weeks to repair whatever it was.



I question do we need this crap????????

The car makers do!! It is big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, in their pockets.

A very exspensive headache for us after the warranty is out...:toilet::soap:

 

[David Ponder]

I agree with Eddie. Whatever happened to the TRUE "Basic" no frills car?



Last one I saw that was truly basic was the Escort of 10 years ago. Our 2001 had manual locks, manual windows, no ABS, no fancy wheels, not even a CD player. Just Basic transportation.

 

[gary s]

"Actually, Toyota made the larger payment to get onto the top spot."

another FACT from tom's cubicle

:bwahaha:

 

[Richard L]

Actually, Toyota made the larger payment to get onto the top spot.

Some of that statement may be true, and why I don't put a lot into JD Powers ratings.



JD Powers is paid by the car manufacturers to do their ratings and JD Powers seems to be very libral about developing new classes to make sure the car makers get a car that is given a top rating. They seem to invent vehilce classes or match vehicles that do not seem to be in the same class or necessarily competitive in that class. That was very common in the early days of the Sport Trac when it was always in a class with the full size pickup trucks like the Avalance, and given a lower ranking because it did not have the load, towing, and size capacity of a full size, 4 door pickup.



Also, any comparison of quality is often very subjective and based more on perceptions of the public rather than factual. Even counting the average number of repairs per 100 vehicles during the first year or two, does not accurately measure quality, and may be more related to the quality of the techs at that dealership then the quality of the vehicles...but they all get thrown into the same pot.



Having said that, I do think Ford's quality record is very spotty. When GM and Chrysler were going bankrupt, Ford was at their peak, and were building top quality cars. After a year or so at the top of their game, they thought nobody could touch them, and of course, quality started to decline along with their market share. This is a very common scenario for most American automakers...When they are out selling their competition, quality takes a backseat to rolling cars off the assembly line and into the hands of the dealerships.



I cannot say if JD Powers' quality rankings are influenced by which manufacture pays them the most money, but it does lead to strong perceptions in the eyes of the buying public...and sometimes that's all it takes. I'm sure there are many happy owners who will praise the quality of their Ford vehicles, and some Lexus owners will think they bought a lemon... I just wonder how much of that difference is based on the Dealership?



...Rich

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen said these things...

Actually, Toyota made the larger payment to get onto the top spot.

We all know that when you attribute an opinion on the Internet with the words "actually", or "fact", that it makes it so.

The drop was because consumers are not bright enough to use the "my ford touch" system. Stupid is as stupid does.

Yep. Blaming the customer/consumer for your poor product is always a BOLD MOVE.

Just hit 211,000 miles on our Explorer and it still runs...

Of course, YMMV.



TJR

 

[Kevin Lang]

Yep. Blaming the customer/consumer for your poor product is always a BOLD MOVE.

Does Caymen speak for Ford? :grin:



I haven't used the system myself, but I'm hoping that technical issues & consumer reluctance don't drum the system out of the market, as happened to previous integrated "Car computers". (The Trip Computers of the 90s and their predecessors in the late 80s.)



The apparent reluctance of the consumer to learn to use their system tells a tragic tale about the consumers, but I'd rather Ford give in and retool their product than have it or them die out. Apple has demonstrated the power of Functionalism in designing & marketing a product, most assuredly.

. After a year or so at the top of their game, they thought nobody could touch them, and of course, quality started to decline along with their market share.

Ford had the foresight to change its business strategy to "weather the storm" that killed GM & Chrysler years before the storm came. I'd like to believe that Ford didn't throw all those years of planning out the window, and that they decided to forget what they learned about selling lower quality cars in the 80s & 90s. Ford is still fighting an uphill battle to regain their credibility. One year of low quality cars could defeat them. Surely they know this. There has to be something else at work, other than Ford trying to slack off for quick & easy money, if their quality is truly declining again. Or so I'd like to believe.

 

[Richard L]

KL,

I agree that Ford had about a 5 year jump on the other US automakers on closing plants, cutting costs as well as improving their quality. But, they have done this a number of times before but they never seem to learn. Given time, they continue to revert back to their old ways. That's why I mentioned the "Quality is Job 1" slogan that Ford used over 20 years ago but only lasted about 1-2 years and then it was pretty much ignored until about 2005 when suddenly Ford quality became an issue again.



If JD Powers statistics are to be believed, then it appears that Ford is going down that same old slippery slope.



....Rich



.

 

[Tom Schindler]

If JD Powers statistics are to be believed, then it appears that Ford is going down that same old slippery slope.

...or just read the article for the actual facts...

Ford Motor Co. (F) fell to 23rd place in the survey from fifth last year, the result of gripes about the Dearborn, Michigan- based companys dashboard touch-screens...

and

Ford models had 116 problems per 100 vehicles in the survey, ranking it behind 12 other below-average brands. Last year, Ford ranked fifth with 93 problems per 100 vehicles. The companys Lincoln luxury models, which also have new touch-screens, fell to 17th from eighth and went from above average to below.



Fords decline in the study is primarily driven by consumers reporting both usability problems and actual functionality problems with the MyFordTouch system, Sargent said. Some consumers are saying the system is, lets be kind here, more complex than they would like.

This is not Ford going junk, but issues with a system that is too complex for its own good and customers not bright enough to use it properly.





Tom

 

[Kevin Lang]

This is not Ford going junk, but issues with a system that is too complex for its own good and customers not bright enough to use it properly.

Few people are going to blame themselves for their own shortcomings, especially not when Ford is a convenient scapegoat. If consumers were complaining about real failings of the MyTouch system--like the screen breakages--then I'd see their point. As it is, they're simply shifting the blame of their own inadequacies. As they say on the internet, people need to RTFM.



That said, Ford can't expect a "paradigm shift" on the part of the public. They have to make their software easier to use for "Joe Public", or they'll continue to get dinged for it. Ford can't afford that. So Ford has to bend to the storm and make their thing iPhone-easy to use, or continue to let lazy ham-fisted luddites rail at them...which apparently counts for something.

 

[gary s]

perception is reality :banana:

 

[Richard L]

I agree with gary s,

It is the perception of the public. If they report "Quality" problems with the touch screen system JD Powers reports it as a Quality issue. If the system is too complex for many consumers to use, especially while driving it also represents a safety problem as well.



That smacks of poor engineering and design...which I think is just as bad as a quality issue. Not everyone who buys a Ford is an engineer, computer guru, is an MIT graduate, or necessarily understands the technology. Consumer products implies that they should be easily useable by the consumer.



I think the reason why many foreign vehicles do better in quality ratings is because they spend more time engineering the design to be as consumer friendly as possible.



I remember about 25-30 years ago when a GM senior engineers/designers indicated they messed up when they designed the interior of a Buick (I think) and put the ash tray right in front of the A/C vent. When owners tried to use the ash tray the AC vent blew the hot ashes back at them....duh?



Ford should do more market research and know exactly what level of technology their customers will accept and how to make it more acceptable to more consumers. It should not be so hard to use that people cannot use it and therefore assume it is broken.



...Rich

 

[H D]

Good thing I've never consulted JD Powers when buying a vehicle. Just do a freakin' test drive. Or let people riding around in $100,000 cars and limousines tell you which car is best, whatever you choose. I'll keep buying Ford.

 

[Richard L]

Hugh,

The problem with doing a road test is that there is usually never time to completely understand all the nuances of the technical gadgets. Many of these vehicles have gadgets that can be customized to suit the user, and there just is not enough time to configure the gadgets to the way you would used them.



Heck it took my dealer about an hour to just to get my BlackBerry linked to the Bluetooth system in my car after I purchased it. I have since linked 3 BlueTooth phones to my car system which is not difficult, just depends on which one is doing the looking to find the other Bluetooth signal.



Typically, when a new car is delivered to the customer, the salesman gives a quick 15 minute briefing on how the majority of the controls work. That generally includes lights, wipers, etc,. but rarely adequately covers the high tech gadgets. The fact that it is a Touch Screen should make it very intuitive, but that is not always the case, especially if the technology is new.



It may not be a true quality issue with the touch screens, but if the public's perception is that the system is flawed, it ends up being a quality issue. If JD Powers gets into the business of making excuses for Ford or anybody else, they need to look at how they are rating quality.



...Rich

 

[Kevin Lang]

I'll keep buying Ford.

So confused, but I guess I understand...



I know I've never put any stock in JD Power & Associates awards. How many consumers even know who JD Power & Associates are, to know if their opinion is worth a hoot? I'd wager very few. Honestly, their award looks pretty cheap. I've seen spiffier "Employee of the Month" awards :banana: