Concerning....

[Gavin Allan]

In mass production, perfection is not the goal because it is often too expensive. Just like highway deaths, everything has a "price point" where defects are tolerated and figured into the cost of doing business. In Tom's job, that price point is a hell of a lot higher than a company making trucks that will only be on the road for 7-8 years.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Still looking for the job where a SINGLE mistake can't be made.



Haven't heard of one yet.



Let me know when you folks find one. That would be a job where there are no erasers on pencils, there is no QA dept (because everything is done right the first time), no inspectors and no need to ever have a review meeting or other post-mortem....because everything is always done right, the first time.



Sure, I'm being a little cute, but so many people like to claim they never make mistakes or that their job doesn't allow for mistakes. Whenever I hear someone use the word "NEVER" or "ALWAYS" in a claim I hear the "******** siren" go off.



TJR

 

[A K]

Still looking for the job where a SINGLE mistake can't be made.

Dynamite engineer.

 

[Jeff C]

Still looking for the job where a SINGLE mistake can't be made.

Astronaut? One little o-ring... One piece of tile... One faulty sensor among 500,000 other parts moving at 17,500 mph on the single most sophisticated machine ever built...

 

[Thomas Rogers]

NASA makes mistakes all the time....they plan for the occasional mistake.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Tom,



You are playing off the whole "Single" mistake. There is a difference between making a mistake, such as mis spelling a word and a dangerous mistake such as not tightening up driveshaft bolts. One is excusable, the other is not.



Would you accept a mistake from a doctor during brain surgery? Would it be OK?





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



I never said mistakes are acceptable, or even excusable, I just said that they happen, in all lines of work. You started to claim that your job and others like it allow for NO mistakes. Clearly, you were mistaken when you said that.



What you seem to have meant to say was that they allow for no "serious" mistakes....and yes, there are several jobs like that, but I am still waiting for that job that allows for NO mistakes at all...even trivial ones.



People make mistakes all the time. Heck, I make mistakes all the time and am even wrong from time to time. The service industry is in bad shape these days, but demanding perfection or satisfaction AND your money back is unreasonable and won't help things.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

There is a difference when performing your task and being at work. You chose to dwell on work as being the time you clock in to the time you clock out and most people here see it as as the time you work on the task given to you.



In other words, I am not allowed to make a mistake. What that means is that when I perform my duty, I am not allowed to make a mistake. Spelling a word wrong is not the task at hand.



You chose to pick apart every word and analize to make it look totally different than the original statement.



I don't car if a tech calls my vehicle a Trac, Sports Trac, or anything else. I will be damned to accept if the moron does not do the job properly when my life could be on the line.



No mistakes are allowed when you are performing a task.



Does that make you feel better?



You need to remember, when typing, normal dialog is not really possible, so in the aspect, many thigs get lost in translation that if we were all sitting in the same room, you would not be acting the way you are.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



Okay, so now you are introducing new words...."the task at hand", and "perform my duty".



Those weren't words you said in your original post. I'm not picking your words apart in a way to make more of them then what they are...actually, the words were few and have a specific meaning.



So now, using the new words, it is more clear to me that you are saying that in some tasks you can make a mistake...say, like the task of taking a pee in the company men's room and forgetting to flush the urinal; but other tasks, say like inspecting a safety component and forgetting to actually inspect it thoroughly you cannot make a mistake.



Okay, so while "working" you can make some mistakes but not others. Thanks for clearing that up.



Oh, and I didn't miss the fact that you are giving an implied meaning to "job" and making "mistakes" when on the job and differenting that against simply "being at work.". Clearly the implications are that there can be no mistakes that are directly related to your job duties.



Of course, even with that last statement, I don't believe it, because I simply don't believe in absolutes....and "NO", as in "NONE" is an absolute. It only takes ONE, one that isn't severe, or that a person has a good excuse for; or that is otherwise forgiven and then the "absolute" simply isn't.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

I still stand by my original statement. I make a mistake at work, I can lose my job.



Unfortunatly, I had to add words to make it clear for you while I am willing to bet everyone understood it for what I ment.



You chose to read it the other way.



I am done and I refuse to discuss it with someone that wants to argue about it.



I am sure nobody here really cares about thier doctors spelling habits. They do care about when they doctor is doing their job, i.e. operating, they make no mistakes. That is when the doctor is doing his job.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen, Whatever. I didn't "chose" to read it the other way, I read it as written. Now you are saying if you make a mistake at your job you "can" be fired. That's not exactly what you said before. But as I said...whatever!



As for a doctor's spelling habits...when he writes a Rx, I care about that VERY MUCH.



P.S. Caymen, I am intentionally giving you a hard time here because you advised Woppy that he "demand to be reimbursed" for the work mistake. Your disdain for service techs and your unwillingness to take work to them because you think for the most part you can do a better job, cheaper, is understandable.



But to make recommendations that a service dept should "eat" their mistakes and then back that attitude up with reasoning that YOU can't make mistakes in your job is simply misguided.



All that people are owed when they aren't given the service they paid for is that it be "made right"...demanding too much doesn't solve anything and only creates other problems….DEMANDING the problem to be “made right” and demanding a full refund is “too much”, IMHO.



I think that only someone who truly considers themselves perfect and has never had to manage a large service organization with various skilled service personnel and thousands of customers of differing demands would think that a "full refund" and "the problem fixed" is what the customer deserves.



Enjoy,



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Time for a Poll:



Does anyone know of any service organization where you do business that has a formal, posted policy that reads something like:



"If you are unsatisified for any reason we will fix your problem AND give you a full refund?"



Anyone...if so, where?



Are there any of you that own your own service businesses that would post that as your policy...or that already have it as your policy?



TJR

 

[Johnny O]

I (generally) have a satisfaction guarateed policy. On rare occasions I will give a refund when that seems to be the path of least resistance, like if I am already losing money on the job. If someone doesnt pay me or I have to give a refund then I cant very well put the dirt back in their house. We look at 99% of the jobs ahead of time and on rare occasions I will not guarantee a job if it is too dirty to begin with. If we accidentally break something in a house my policy is to repair or replace but they dont get a new one plus keep the old one.

I own a house and window cleaning company.

 

[Tom Schindler]

"If you are unsatisified for any reason we will fix your problem AND give you a full refund?"

Aldi, though not a service industry, but in a way they are. You buy food, but are not satisfied with it. You return it, they give you your money back AND give you a replacement item.



Now, lets look at what I originally said Woppy should do.

Bring a reciept to the dealer that did the work. Demand to be reimbursed.

Reimbursed from what?



Later I said...

You requested them to do a job. They did not do it properly and had to pay someone to do it over. They are responsible for the costs you had to pay to get it fixed.

Then you end up saying...

Caymen, I am intentionally giving you a hard time here because you advised Woppy that he "demand to be reimbursed" for the work mistake. Your disdain for service techs and your unwillingness to take work to them because you think for the most part you can do a better job, cheaper, is understandable.

that is right. If I paid you to fix my computyer, you say it is fixed and leave. I go to use my computer and it is not fixed. It is unsafe to use (bear with me here) and I am not near where you can fix it. Lets say it is a day you are not working.



Should you reimburse me the cost I had to pay to get it fixed right, up to the cost you charged me to "fix" it in the first place?I think you should. I paid for a service. You did not fullfill that service. I should be required to pay for your mistake by paying twice to fix the problem?



Tell me what you would do.



Here are the rules.



You are UNABLE to fix it now BECAUSE you are closed, I am unable to reach you, away from your area, etc. I MUST get it fixed since away from home, it is unsafe to use, whatever...whatever...whatever.



What would be fair?



...and put yourself in your customers situation, not your own point if view.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen, I think you are assuming a lot. I didn't read above where Whoppy was charged anything to tighten the loose bolts on the transfer case, or that the muffler shop tightened him for them.



But if were were to assume such, then you ask "what would I do?"



Well, I have been in this situation. I had a Chevy dealer in PA replace the head gaskets on my '89 GMC S15 back in '96. They didn't do the job right. I don't remember what exactly they forgot to do, but on my drive home to NY shortly after the repair a dummy light came on. I took it to a local dealer service center near my home and they found that something wasn't reconnected properly in the repair...a sensor or something if memory serves.



With diagnostics the dealer in NY charged around $80.



I took that receipt back to the original repair center, in another state, and got my money back...the $80.



So, since Woppy nor you stated exactly what reimbursment he should be seeking I guess I assumed we were talking about the original repair. That's why I said repeated that no service org should be expected to fix their mistake AND refund money in full. What I described above, and what you described was a partial refund...a refund for fixing the mistake.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

Did I ever say he should be refunded 100%?



Since you like to take everything literal, do you argue at the "all you can eat buffet" you only need one plate for your whole family?



Essentially, you would be right because "you" can refer to everyone as well as one person.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Nope, Caymen, you didn't say 100%...you didn't specify, as usual, so instead, I made it VERY CLEAR, several times in my follow-ons, which you then debated by using the term "full refund". Guess you weren't reading my carefully chosen words meant to clarify what you I and I were discussing.



Oh, one last thing:





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