Findings on college graduates disturbing

[Thomas Rogers]

Funny, not because Bill Ford said it, but funny because I would assume that if a college professor asks a student to write a paper the professor would consider the student cheating if said student turned in a paper they wrote in highschool. I say that because I would assume that it goes without saying that the professor desires new, original work.



The author didn't say that he was accused of cheating by the professor because the professor didn't think he wrote the paper. Sure, one could make that implication, but the original poster didn't say that. He just said "cheating"; and IMHO in the more general sense, if you resubmit an old paper, it seems like cheating to me.



TJR

 

[Dre L]

I was the author, the alias was still set to BFord.



The paper was on the exact same topic, on the exact same book. The professor's complaint was that she asked for a 3 page paper, this one was 8, and clearly could have not been written by me.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Okay, Nobleman, did you by chance say something like the following to the professor:



"Of course it was written by me, and it is 8 pages not 3 as you requested because I simply reused a paper I wrote in high school as that assignment required a longer paper. I didn't think a longer paper would be a problem. Would you like to talk to my high school teacher?"





What do you think she would have said if you gave that information?



Why might you NOT have given that information?



Accusations of cheating aside, if she asked for a 3 page paper, why not simply edit your 8 page paper into a 3 page version, in order to comply with the request?



TJR

 

[TrainTrac]

Another sad fact is that a lot of college students have no idea, or don't care how to dress in proper business attire to be able to interview and land a successful job after graduation. Some look like walking tackle boxes with all their body piercings, dreads or other wild hairstyles, and baggy, unkempt attire. Here's an example of at least one university that is showing it's students how to "dress for success":

Hampton U. says which hairstyles make the cut

By PHILIP WALZER, The Virginian-Pilot

© January 21, 2006

Last updated: 12:22 AM



Students in Hampton University’s five-year combined business administration program must maintain a B average after their sophomore year.



They have to complete two internships.



And for a weekly series of receptions with business leaders, they must do something else: Stick to “conservative” hairstyles and dress.



If not, they can’t attend.



Cornrows are out, said the business dean, Sid Credle . Dreadlocks might be OK, but not ones that dangle to your shoulders. No multi-tinted hair, and no earrings on men .



“We don’t have problems with Afros,” he said Friday . “A nicely tapered Afro – that’s fine.”



As for dress: suit and tie preferred for men ; skirts – not too short – for women. The private, historically black university makes



allowances for religious attire.



Hampton toughened its standards this semester. “Before, we said extreme hairdos, and then we never got into details,” Credle said.



“Our job is to give students the highest probability of success in corporate America or entrepreneurship,” he said. “When we look at the top 75 African Americans in corporate America, we don’t see any of them with extreme hairdos.”



The combined program allows students to receive a bachelor’s degree and a master’s in business administration in five years. With the requirements, “they’ll get very comfortable wearing a suit over a five-year period. When they get into corporate America, the transition will be easier.”



Old Dominion University’s M B A program doesn’t have similar dress or hair requirements, said its director, Bruce L. Rubin . Norfolk State does not have an M B A program.



Aaron Wells, a junior in Hampton’s program from Fairfax, put away his earrings when he enrolled. He’s not complaining, he said, and most students aren’t, either.



“It really gives us a very good model of what we should be doing in corporate America,” said Wells, who hopes to pursue a career in finance. “We need to look the part as professionals.”



Another M B A student with qualms about the requirements declined to be interviewed for fear of retribution from university officials.



Credle said only one or two students per year have not complied. They are allowed to attend other seminars with CEOs or work with the career placement office to arrange one-on-one business contacts.



“The alternative might even be better, from the standpoint of the individual, than a forum, which is a group process,” he said.



Jack L. Ezzell Jr. , the president of Zel Technologies , a defense contractor in Hampton, said different businesses have different standards.



Distinctive dress and hairstyles “might be acceptable in, say, advertising or some other medium that’s a bit more informal and creative,” he said. “But clearly, if you were targeting banking or maybe the military or someplace that’s a lot more rigid, you’ve got to be really cautious in doing that.”



At his company, standards also vary for technicians and people in marketing. “Where I have someone who is going to potentially meet with the customer,” Ezzell said, “I expect them to look more like the customer would.



“I’ve seen dreads and earrings that look good,” said Ezzell . “If they are exceptionally bright, I would not turn them off automatically. But I know many of my business ass

 

[Maurice Garcia]

It surprises me that a lot of people in college has such poor grammar.



strip out "of people in college" - now what do you get? The noun is "lot" which is singular.



Instead of "a lot of people" use "many people".



Cheers. Maurice

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Exactly Mo2k, but I don't think and didn't think that "lot" was the noun of the sentence; but that "people" was.



I agree that a better worded sentence is:



"It surprises me that many people in college have such poor grammar."



And that sentence above is more or less what I thought the original poster was trying to say.



Now, compare and contrast that to a translation of the sentence in which "lot" is the noun:



"It surprises me that a lot filled with people has such poor grammar"



Note that I have replaced "of" with the words "filled with", because that is one way that I can clearly use the words "LOT" and "PEOPLE" and words that mean the same as "of", and make LOT a noun.



Now, how, exactly does a LOT (noun) have grammar?



It seems that the poster didn't mean a singular composition (aka lot) of people but many people...plural. You must of thought the same, which is why you said use "many people" instead of "a lot of".



You have to love English.



TJR

 

[Mark Grumpy]

It surprises me that a lot has such poor grammar.



In the context used it would still be plural. Lot, when used collectively for like items or people, is plural. When used as a place or single entity, such as an aution lot, a parking lot, etc. then it is singular. Have would still apply above, although "many people" is better.



grump



Edit: oops - had to fix a spelling error

 

[Dre L]

Okay, Nobleman, did you by chance say something like the following to the professor:



"Of course it was written by me, and it is 8 pages not 3 as you requested because I simply reused a paper I wrote in high school as that assignment required a longer paper. I didn't think a longer paper would be a problem. Would you like to talk to my high school teacher?"





What do you think she would have said if you gave that information?



Why might you NOT have given that information?



Accusations of cheating aside, if she asked for a 3 page paper, why not simply edit your 8 page paper into a 3 page version, in order to comply with the request?

Fact of the matter is I did say that I wrote the paper in high school, and that my high school teacher commended me for it (after I re-wrote the entire thing for him in person) because he was not able to write as well as I did. I even offered to call him on my cell phone.



Her response was "your assignment was to write a paper for this class."



My response was "My assignment was to write a paper on the authors use of (whatever) in Beowulf. Here it is, I'll go see if the dean has an issue with it now."



My work is my work, it doesn't matter whether or not I wrote it 5 minutes ago or 5 years ago. I shouldn't need to retype it because some idiot professor is having a bad day, and doesn't feel she needs to read some extra pages. Frankly, I remember when assignments of "3 pages" meant at least 3 pages, and a professor would actually commend someone for going above and beyond.

 

[Bill V]

Nobleman, many teachers/professors, both now and in times past, would have a problem with receiving an eight-page report from a three-page assignment. One of the most important things for people to learn when trying to improve their writing is brevity. (And, I'll admit, it's one of the weaker points of my writing skills.)



Given a subject on which they have knowledge, anyone can ramble on for 50 pages. It takes skill to communicate just as much information in only three.



The lesson in writing brevity given by Tom Skeritt's character in "A River Runs Through It" was invaluable, and is far too often overlooked in today's classrooms. It's the English equivalent to mathematical/geometrical proofs--both are critical parts of learning, and both are usually skipped in today's schools simply because today's students find them to be "hard".

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Thanks for the additional information Nobleman. It's interesting how "additional information" can illuminate things.



From the professor's point of view, she wanted a 3 page paper, and you supplied an 8 page one that you say was well written beyond her expectations. One can only assume that those two things together led the prof to believe you probably didn't write it and started this whole ball rolling. When you then told her that you wrote it in the past, that helped to explain why it was over 3 pages; but allowed the prof her point that you didn't actually write a paper in response to her assignment...for if you did, it would be 3 pages, right? The whole pissing contest of what exactly was the assignment is just that...the assignment was to write a paper...you didn't WRITE a paper, you used a paper already written. There is a difference in tense...an assignment to WRITE means to do something in the future. See the peeing contest? Do you really want to be in a peeing contest with people? Did you at the time think "Hah! I have one on her, I will just use the paper I already wrote?"



You can think the prof an idiot if you want, but she asked for a paper that was three pages, and if you simply retyped yours in a condensed form, following the directions, all issues would have been avoided.



Sounds like you have a problem with authority! ;-)



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

BTW, Nobleman, being NY native, might I ask, which college was this?

 

[Dre L]

Sounds like you have a problem with authority! ;-)

Sounds like you have no life and like to start arguments over anything! ;-) (see how the winkey made that non-insulting)



The point was that a college was teaching at a high school level.



The result of my 8 page paper was a skills assesment being given to the class, with myself and others moving on to a higher level course.



There's brevity.

 

[Dre L]

St. Johns

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Sorry, nob, if I made you mad. The statement about you possibly having a problem with authority was made because, frankly, when I read your rant ("I shouldn't need to retype it because some idiot professor is having a bad day, and doesn't feel she needs to read some extra pages.") it seemed like you seemed inconvenienced by the assignment, as if you weren't actually there to take assignments from the professor and fulfill them. I added the smiley so you could see I wasn't completely serious.



Hey, I just call them like I see them. When I hold mirrors up to people they often don't like what they see. I don't like to pick arguments over "anything", but I do like to hold those mirrors up to people when I think they need them. Too much rationalization and bad behavior goes on in this world with too few people with the balls to call people on it.



Case in point, you said: "I was accused of cheating because I turned in a paper I wrote in high school..."



In my world, that by definition is an admission of cheating! That's why I said it "sounds funny!" Can you see how given what was said up to that point I might think that?



Oh, and more information keeps coming. Now you say it was a skills assessment paper, which doesn't sound like your typical assignment, I will grant you that.



Regardless, the fact that this prof is still under your skin and you call her an idiot when it was you that did wrong by most any impartial person's account seems to say quite a bit.



You say they were teaching at a high school level, but then you say it was an assessment, so maybe they were actually trying to assess what you did or didn't learn in highschool. Maybe?



You don't think you cheated...and in your mind, I am sure you don't think you did. I think you cut a corner and didn't do any work for the assignment. You rehashed your work, the prof called you on it, and you got ticked and rationalized your behavior. That's the mirror...enjoy the view.



And keep on Trac'in.



;-)



TJR

 

[Dre L]

Wow, you're full of yourself. I don't hold mirrors up to people and try to hide my own shortcomings by doing so. I was right the first time around, you have no life and like to start arguments over anything.

 

[Gypsy me]

Wow! I learn so much from this site. (about people)

 

[Nelson Atwell]

I done graduaded. :blink:



What I think is saddest of all is that even though our population is better educated than it was 25 years ago, many people don't even have the basic skills to get through life.



Many can't count back change to a customer, balance a checkbook, or make a household budget. Even sadder is when you walk into their homes. Half the people I know live like pigs, and my ex is the worst of all. Her dad was a pediatrician and her mom was a nurse. My ex and her siblings never learned to clean house, cook or do anything related to taking care of themselves. It is really sad.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

What exactly are my shortcomings, nobleman? Please feel free to hold up the mirror. I would LOVE to make myself a better person.



To give you some more insight as to what makes me tick, your comment, as I read it, was as if I was overhearing people incredulously say things like the following:

“The boss called my cell phone the other day while I was playing a round of golf and started balling me out because I had taken a sick day.”



“My husband walked into the restaurant and saw me holding hands with this other guy and now he thinks I am cheating!”



“I was saving seats at the theater for my friends that hadn’t arrived, and as the theater filled up some stranger had the nerve to call me selfish!”



“My ISP cancelled my service for no reason other than the fact that I had downloaded some music using Kaaza rather than pay for it.”

If you can't see how to an outsider hearing what you said:

I was accused of cheating because I turned in a paper I wrote in high school...

...doesn't sound equally as ironic, well I guess you are too close to the issue.



Sorry if I offended you.



Regarding "full of yourself" and "no life" comments, please, please let me know where I said anything to you that could be considered a personal attack or as insensitive? Your the one that took this to the gutter...I tried to help you see how you were probably wrong in this situation, and you would have none of that.



I apologize for the "problem with authority" quib, but frankly, why the rant. She was doing her job and it sounds like you were not doing yours and giving her a hard time to boot.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

GM says:

Wow! I learn so much from this site. (about people)

Oh, GM, care to share what you have learned?



Looking for more comments. If I stuck my nose where it didn't belong, folks, tell me. Others that think when people make a comment and put themselves out there they should expect feedback and be willing to take it constructively, please chime in too.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

*** I AM SORRY NOBLEMAN! ***