Fluid changes

[EddieS'04]

Rich,



I was told years ago that ams-oil got its start, with synthetics for airplane motors?? True or not IDK.

With todays' deals on the shelf. Im suprised that amsoil isnt onthe shelf. There are alot of things on the shelf nowdays, so they can compete. Im sure it is good oil, but Im like you Rich. Some things I dont want to wait on a delivery. We have an ams' dealer @ my church. He said, no one buys from him there. His sales are family and where he works.

I ran mobil 1 and motorcraft filters in my 5.0L '94 'stang. 'Cause the guy that built the (power adder capable) short block. Used it for break in and 2000miles after before I bought the car. I changed it every 6k.

When I built the 5.0L for my '88 T-bird. I ran motorcraft blend and valvoline blend,with motorcraft filters. Changed it every 5k. Despite my lead foot all was well.

I have no problem with premium syn filters. For street cars and trucks, I think $8 to $12 per Qt is overkill. With the 8k mile lab reports I have had for the Trac. Castrol or Penzoil syn on sale, works just fine for me. I allways keep one change ready. I catch the sales that offer the K&N with the oil. I would accept a mobil 1 filter also.

IMO, qaulity syn on the shelf oil @ $5 to $6 a QT and premium filters. Just fine for my Texas heat. If I ever get prooven wrong Then I will research and maybe spend more $$. What I find strange is. Most manufactors are building their motors with smaller filters than the old days?

 

[Richard L]

Eddie,

I think we are from a generation that appreciates the simplicity of how things worked before the marketing gurus started to put different spin on things. :haveabeer:



In my mind, Exclusive Distributorships brings up the images of Amway, Multi-Level Marketing, and Pyramid schemes. I am not saying that all MLM?s are Pyramid schemes, but a recent report showed that many MLM?s are tiptoeing very close to the edge of that legal precipice, and it is not uncommon for some to step too far.



I think that Amsoil makes fine products that would sell well at any store at a competitive price based on their company?s reputation alone. I also know that there are a limited number of retail stores that sell Amsoil products, but I think that may only be in areas where they do not have an exclusive distributor? I know I would be pissed if I was the Exclusive local Amsoil Distributor and found the local Walmart selling Amsoil? :angry:



I know distribution and store shelf space is very expensive when you are competing with the well known brand big boys and that's what started all these MLM businesses back in the early days from the Amway's business model. Amway started it's Exclusive Distributorship-Direct Sales business in 1959 and quickly became one of the most profitable businesses at that time. However, about 1979, the Feds declared Amway?s MLM was an unfair business model and Amway was forced the make changes. Amway was pushing existing distributors to recruit more and more distributors because Amway was making more money from the fees. prices, and inventory the Distributors were forced to buy, then they were making from the actual sales of their products to retail customers. That's when the Feds stepped in and created the "Amway 80% law". This law stipulates: At least 80% of any company?s revenue must come from products, services or sales to people outside the company.



Since Amsoil started selling their oil products to consumers around 1972, I wonder if they were tangled up in that same mess like the Amway business model, and like many other companies, had to modify their Exclusive Distributor to be legal?



...Rich

 

[Johnny O]

I haven't tried and tested every oil on the market but I've gotten UOA's from Blackstone on several and got the best results with Pennzoil Platinum. Not that Mobil 1 was bad, just that Pennzoil Platinum was better. Now for example on the Taurus my wife used to have, the UOA's for Motorcraft and Mobil 1 over 5000 miles were practically identical so I spent half as much and used Motorcraft in it. Now a Ford 3.0 is a low-stress cockroach motor that you could fill with peanut butter and get a good UOA, but that's why they are important because you can't just say that so-and-so oil is the best in everything. When I tried Mobil 1 0w-30 Fuel Economy Formula in my Trac, the UOA's said it was okay for 5000 miles but when I ran it for 7500 it was not so good.

 

[Vic Sorlie]

I was told years ago that ams-oil got its start, with synthetics for airplane motors?? True or not IDK.

With todays' deals on the shelf. Im suprised that amsoil isnt onthe shelf. There are alot of things on the shelf nowdays, so they can compete. Im sure it is good oil, but Im like you Rich. Some things I dont want to wait on a delivery. We have an ams' dealer @ my church. He said, no one buys from him there. His sales are family and where he works.

Eddie:



AMSOIL didn't start with aircraft engine oil. At one time they may have recommended an oil for piston aircraft engines, but that's long gone. AMSOIL expressly says No Aviation Use in their documentation. The only AMSOIL oil I've heard used (I'm in my 18th year as a dealer) is one of our 2-cycle oils in Rotax engines where no FAA certification is required.



You'll never see AMSOIL in a big-box store like Walmart or Pep Boys because AMSOIL does not sell company-to-company. The products are sold direct through their dealer network using several methods. If you see AMSOIL on a store shelf (say NAPA) it's because that individual store owner wanted an account and worked with a dealer to get one. We have similar wholesale accounts for commercial businesses and individuals, plus plain ol' retail sales from the corporate website or phone.

 

[Vic Sorlie]

I think we are from a generation that appreciates the simplicity of how things worked before the marketing gurus started to put different spin on things.



In my mind, Exclusive Distributorships brings up the images of Amway, Multi-Level Marketing, and Pyramid schemes. I am not saying that all MLM?s are Pyramid schemes, but a recent report showed that many MLM?s are tiptoeing very close to the edge of that legal precipice, and it is not uncommon for some to step too far.



I think that Amsoil makes fine products that would sell well at any store at a competitive price based on their company?s reputation alone. I also know that there are a limited number of retail stores that sell Amsoil products, but I think that may only be in areas where they do not have an exclusive distributor? I know I would be pissed if I was the Exclusive local Amsoil Distributor and found the local Walmart selling Amsoil?



I know distribution and store shelf space is very expensive when you are competing with the well known brand big boys and that's what started all these MLM businesses back in the early days from the Amway's business model. Amway started it's Exclusive Distributorship-Direct Sales business in 1959 and quickly became one of the most profitable businesses at that time. However, about 1979, the Feds declared Amway?s MLM was an unfair business model and Amway was forced the make changes. Amway was pushing existing distributors to recruit more and more distributors because Amway was making more money from the fees. prices, and inventory the Distributors were forced to buy, then they were making from the actual sales of their products to retail customers. That's when the Feds stepped in and created the "Amway 80% law". This law stipulates: At least 80% of any company?s revenue must come from products, services or sales to people outside the company.



Since Amsoil started selling their oil products to consumers around 1972, I wonder if they were tangled up in that same mess like the Amway business model, and like many other companies, had to modify their Exclusive Distributor to be legal?



...Rich

Rich, this is a car enthusiast forum and I'm one just like you. Car people have their favorite products, of which oil is probably at the top of the list. Maybe we can agree that AMSOIL is one of many oils out there in the market. We're all free to choose what we think makes the best choice for our rides.



You've got some bad knowledge about MLMs though, especially regarding AMSOIL. I don't know where you're getting this "Exclusive Distributorship" business, because I've never heard that phrase in my 17 years as an AMSOIL dealer. Ditto for "Amway 80% law," which I've never heard of. It wouldn't apply to AMSOIL dealers anyway, because everything we dealers do is based on product sales exclusively. I'm not required to buy anything, sell anything, can talk to anyone in the U.S. or Canada. If I want to earn commission (and I do) then I use the tools AMSOIL has given me to help individuals and businesses solve their lubrication issues.



Which is why I help sponsor this here forum. The information's free for the asking.

 

[Richard L]

Vic,

I never said that Amsoil was NOT a good product and I also agree that people will often have a favorite brand of oil, toothpaste, or Tequila...That's what is so good about this country, we have a choice, and we can choose to take it or leave it. My whole point was to advise dlkhr18 that it was more important to use a quality brand oil and change it at proper intervals, rather than rely on someone's claim or opinion on which brand is best. Also, it's important to be able to get the oil when you need it, and the convenience of locally available oil vs mail-order oil is a consideration.



I also never said that Amsoil was violating any laws regarding MLM's or Direct Marketing practices, or that Amsoil was an MLM or Pyramid Scheme. Amsoil just happend to start in 1972 which is around when many MLM's were starting to take off. I also said that I did not know if Amsoil started with the same MLM business model, but they might have been forced to change when the Feds passed the Amway law.



I do not have bad knowledge of MLM's because I have done my homework! I was recently involved with an MLM that turned out to be a $900 million Ponze scheme....So I made it a point to educate myself about MLM's, Pyramid, and Ponze schemes to insure that I never get involved with any of them again. I got about 40% of my investment back, and the attorney assigned as the Receiver has promised that more money would be returned...someday.



The fact that you have never heard of the Amway Pyramid scheme, or the 80% law that the Feds installed to force Amway to change the way they did business and others were forced to follow, only tells me that you have limited if any knowledge of what an MLM is or what is legal.



Also, be aware that all MLM's use different terms to describe their business model, and most will claim they are Direct Sales, Direct Marketing, Distributors, Members, Affiliates, etc...but almost never say they are MLM's, Pyramid Sales, and certainly not a Ponze Scheme..!



Eddie,

Yes, Amsoil was founded by an Air Force Lt. Col who saw the military aircrafts need for synthetic oils and started his own company in Wisconsin selling oil to the military and commercial airlines. In 1972 he decided to sell to the general public and started the Distributorship, claiming that "Word of Mouth" sold better than just putting the product on the shelf....and it's cheaper too.



...Rich

 

[Vic Sorlie]

Eddie,

Yes, Amsoil was founded by an Air Force Lt. Col who saw the military aircrafts need for synthetic oils and started his own company in Wisconsin selling oil to the military and commercial airlines. In 1972 he decided to sell to the general public and started the Distributorship, claiming that "Word of Mouth" sold better than just putting the product on the shelf....and it's cheaper too.



...Rich

Rich, you're wrong. The company's original product (company name was AMZOIL back then) was a 10W-40 motor oil, the first synthetic oil in U.S. to receive API certification. It was not sold for aviation use to either military or commercial airlines. The MLM program was started in 1973, suggested to company founder Al Amatuzio by Shirley Green, a farmer's wife from Kansas. Sorry you got involved with what sounds like a "Program MLM" as opposed to a "Product MLM," which is what AMSOIL is.



Hope we're done with this, as we're way off-track from what OP started here.

 

[Richard L]

Vic,

Here is an extract from Wikipedia?s history on Amsoil:

History

As a jet fighter squadron commander, Lieutenant Colonel Albert J. Amatuzio had the opportunity to witness synthetic lubricants in action. Although commercial uses for synthetic engine oils had emerged as early as the 1920s with Standard Oil and further pushed onto the market in 1946 with National Carbide Company, Amatuzio felt inspired to conduct research in the early 1960s. He soon re-branded the old technology with the slogan, "First in Synthetics" and sold commercially available synthetic oils using a multi level marketing business plan.

The fact that they changed their name from Amzoil to Amsoil is not mentioned and does not change their history nor does it make anything I said WRONG??. Also, excuse me for typing 1972 instead of 1973, but that also does not materially change anything I said.



As I understand the Amsoil/Amzoil history: In 1972 Amatuzio developed the first synthetic oil to meet API specifications and that?s when he started his MLM distributor business model...perhaps it was not implemented until 1973? Whether it was in 1972 or 1973 is not the issue. Amsoil or Amzoil was started using some form of MLM business model that Amway pioneered. In fact many people think that Amsoil and Amway are somehow related? They are NOT!



I only suggested that Amzoil/Amsoil started the MLM business model when many other companies were jumping into MLMs, like Fuller Brush, Avon, etc... and they may have been forced to change their business model in 1979 when the Feds went after Amway and created the new law to distinguish between the sales of a product or service vs an investment opportunity.



Many MLM's refer to this Federal law as the "Amway Law" or the "80% Rule" If you must buy-in or pay a fee to participate, and LESS than 80% of a company's revenue comes from the sales, or services to customers outside of the company, the company is declared by the Feds to be selling investments which are controlled by the SEC (Securities Exchange Commission). SEC laws say that anyone selling investments must be registered with the SEC or they are in violation of SEC laws. That's where some MLM stumble across that legal line.



An MLM is an MLM no matter what the company claims it is or what it claims it sells. A Program MLM or a Product MLM is still and MLM that requires some buy-in fee or membership (which they may call anything they want), and they must follow the Federal 80% law.



MLM's and Pyramid Sales schemes are NOT illegal provided they follow the Federal laws and not cross the line into Investments. Like I previously said, most MLM's are tiptoeing right on that borderline between legal and illegal.



The company that I "Invested" in (paid an affiliate fee) crossed that line and was shut down by the SEC. The SEC found that less than 2% of their revenue came from sales outside the company and the rest of their revenue came from a constant flow of new investor's cash that was used to pay previous investors?.that's the textbook definition of a Ponzi scheme.



Most Ponzi Schemes started out as legitimate business ventures, but when they started to fail financially, the owners panicked and thought that getting more investors would allow them to pay the previous investors until they ride out the financial storm, but it eventually collapses when you run out of other people's money.



I am not attacking you or Amsoil, I just said that companies that operate using the MLM business model leave a bad taste in my mouth. I guess I need to wash that down with a beer



:haveabeer:

...Rich

 

[Jerry G.]

Looking to see what kind of fluids everyone on here uses. Normally I just take whatever is on sale or the first thing I see. I'm changing my oil and transmission fluid. Not exactly sure where to drain or fill the tranny. If I looked I could probably figure it out but why not just ask and then find. Haha

I have a 2007 S.T. 4.6 v/8 there is NO dip stick for the tranny on this truck and I was told by a Ford garage that if the trans is not leaking just dont worry about the fluid .Its a closed system . A local transmission garage said to have it serviced one a year . I believe the Ford dealer ,just leave this one alone on this particular vehicle.

 

[Jerry G.]

When in doubt have a beer .Still in doubt, have another beer .Keep repeating this until your doubt goes away.