GAO chief warns economic disaster looms

[Nelson Atwell]

I'm really surprised to see that this isn't a campaign issue (see link). Of course, most people are more concerned about a possibility that their "entitlements" will be reduced or not keep pace with inflation, than they are in protecting the economic future of the country for their children and grandchildren.



I've heard numerous complaints about the 2.2 % pay increase the military received in next year's budget. I guess not many have had civilian jobs. I worked for nine years before I joined and can recall years in which I received no raise at all.



Discussing the financial aspects of this is just the tip of the iceberg regarding the issues facing this country. The children of the sixties (I'm included in this bunch) and more recent decades is focused primarily on material wealth and having the freedom to whatever the heck makes them feel good, and doesn't really care too much about the legacy left by their ancestors or the legacy they will leave for future generations.



We need to become more like Asian cultures where we venerate the elderly and consider our acts in the long view of how it reflects on our grandparents' and parents' legacy and how our acts can impact our children and their children. A tad bit of Native American respect for the land wouldn't hurt us either.



The days of single child, middle class families living in 8 bedroom houses will be short-lived I am afraid.

 

[Gerald Pierce]

I've heard numerous complaints about the 2.2 % pay increase the military received in next year's budget. I guess not many have had civilian jobs. I worked for nine years before I joined and can recall years in which I received no raise at all

I am one of these. With the tempo the military is being used at currently, if they do not keep the pay up there, then we are going to lose valuable folks quickly. My current schedule has me away from home for 12 out of 15 months. Granted, at my level, I understand the requirement and realize the benefits I have, but for a single person that has good training and no need for the extra benefits (commissary, medical, dental, etc), it is going to be harder to keep them in.



I undertand your point, and literally feel the same way, but at the same time understand why the government does what it does. Just as any employer, they have to remain competitive, and 2.2 pct raises do not offset the hardships being imposed on these young people.

 

[Terry Schultz]

I was drafted ---- IN THE OLD DAYS ----(took a 50% pay cut with a preagant wife) -- everyone that is in now are by choice. I totally support all of our troops and wish they were not in the delima that they are now.



In the real world, these things happen very often; pay wise. Choices are made and decisions must be made. It is not an easy decision to make. People are lost to other jobs because of money.



Do not fault anyone that leaves or stays because of the money. Security of our nation will continue. NO ONE is ill-replaceable(sp).



I see the flames coming



Terry

 

[Keith Lewis]

If the pay raises for the military aren't done, then things will go back to 20% of the enlisted corps being eligible for food stamps. It is too easy to let it get behind, and then playing catch-up will be hard to do (last time required 2-3 years of 10%+ pay raises across the board).

 

[Tom Schindler]

I think we need a few more tax cuts for the friends of the "Royal Family"!





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Tom (Caymen), aren't the Kennedy's and their friends rich enough already? :unsure:



I understand the need to give the military meaningful raises, but it was used as an example of the mindset of a generation.



We have too many people expecting a handout from the government every time they face a financial challenge. I remember when I was a kid it was embarrassing to be on welfare and receiving food stamps. I remember when all my parents could afford was a can of tuna or a pound of hamburger so we could have tuna/hamburger helper. My parents applied for food stamps once, and my mom cried for days and refused to use them. She said she couldn't go to the store and use them because she would die of embarrassment. A swiss steak or pot roast was like a holiday meal for us back then. Now days there is no shame in taking handouts. Instead, people feel entitled to them.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Yes they are. Lets not forget about those from Texas too.





Tom

 

[Gavin Allan]

What's the issue? I support raises for military members. I've long felt that ALL government employees ought to have their pay automatically increase each year based on the CPI.



As for losing valuable folks quickly: It appears we are doing just that. Almost to 3000 US casualties in Iraq, with no end to the carnage in sight.





May God bless our troops and their families. May God also bless our President and our other leaders.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

The Air Force is implementing a plan to eliminate 40,000 Airmen in the next couple of years. Many will be forced to leave by next March. The Air Force leadership decided to cut troops, because Congress doesn't have enough money to pay for replacement of the aging aircraft we fly. They plan to redirect the money that would have paid those salaries into buying new equipment.



Remember the phrase, "This isn't your father's Oldsmobile"? When referring to aircraft such as the B-52, A-10 and C-130, the phrase, "We fly your Grand-father's aircraft." applies.



During World War II the government placed restrictions on energy consumption and consumption of certain raw materials such as iron and copper. The crops from the nation's farms were widely bought by the Government to feed the troops and the citizens grew Victory Gardens to feed their families. Many sacrifices were made to allow victory in that war. I'm not saying that sort of sacrifice is required, but some sort of sacrifice by this generation should be given to help preserve the future.

 

[Tom Schindler]

They plan to redirect the money that would have paid those salaries into buying new equipment.

The money that was supposed to go towards the company I work for was diverted to Iraq. Add all the tax cuts to the mix and it is clear to say that the best thing that could happen is to remove the current president from office.





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Tom,



The President doesn't create the budget. Congress does. The President has very little control over Congress and that is exactly what the writers of the Constitution envisioned when they wrote that document over 200 years ago.



Firing the President for the budget problems would be like firing you because your company failed to make a profit.

 

[Tom Schindler]

The president has diverted money, thanks to tax cuts for the wealthy and "Operation Iraqi Liberation", from the defense program. I, like you, work in the defense industry.



I have seen our work go from "balls to the walls" to a stand still. I have seen too many jobs get pulled off the floor because of budget cuts by the president and the congress.



The president is the cause of the budget cuts. Remove him from office.





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Tom,



The President proposes a budget, but he doesn't create the budget. Congress does. The President's proposal is developed from inputs of each department of the government.



Much of the budget items are "must pay" items. These programs may be large like Social Security, or small like the phone bill for your local Forest Ranger's office. These "must pay" bills need to be funded for the continuation of existing programs. These "must pay" items could be reduced immediately if the government decided to reduce services to citizens.



There are also long-term investments, such as development of new aircraft carriers. The design and building of these items takes decades sometimes. Funding of long-term projects such as this must continue each year until completion, otherwise the investment of previous years will be lost.



Your complaint about no work in your factory is likely due to some decision President Clinton made during his administration to not develop new ships or to project decommissioning of a ship that would have needed your company's product today or in the future. I'm not saying this is the case, but it is a possibility.



In short, the Budget is like a speeding freight train in some respects. It takes a long time to slow it down, and the only way to stop it is to apply the brakes for a long time. In the case of the US budget, we will need a long-term commitment from both the Democrats and Republicans to get this under control.



If you want some deeper insight into this or need a sleep aid, just read the information at this link: http://www.dod.mil/comptroller/icenter/budget/ppbsint.htm. I sat through two and a half weeks of training on this subject as a new recruit right after basic training. Yeah...some portions of my career field suck, but I do get to live in some really cool places. :lol:

 

[Tom Schindler]

Your complaint about no work in your factory is likely due to some decision President Clinton made during his administration to not develop new ships or to project decommissioning of a ship that would have needed your company's product today or in the future. I'm not saying this is the case, but it is a possibility.

Wrong. Bush signed for the work, then diverted it to his war for oil.



We have meetings once a year with people from Washington DC. I m not allowed to say the names of who they are, but they are top brass in the military. This isn't coming from heresay, but by the top brass in the Navy. Next summer we will be having a visit from him again.





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Tom,



If this is the case, can you fault the President or Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld for diverting money from Navy programs to Army programs? After all, the Army is fighting the War on Terrorism and the Navy for the most part is just ferrying cargo back and forth. The Air Force also has been playing a relatively minor supporting role, though the Navy and Air Force are providing support personnel to fill Army slots, since the Army currently has a shortage and we have overages of personnel.



Because of my job, I can't enter into a debate about whether or not the War on Terrorism is justified or whether correct decisions have been made. All I can tell you is that the military is ready to defend our country and is better equipped to do so than at any other time in history.



The whole point of this thread is that the Government needs to be smarter about how it spends our tax dollars, and we will need to sacrifice a LITTLE today to prevent our children and grandchildren from sacrificing a LOT in the future.

 

[Tom Schindler]

If this is the case, can you fault the President or Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld for diverting money from Navy programs to Army programs?

The money is not going to the Army. It is going to the rebuilding of Iraq. The Army still is not getting the supplies they need. You know that as well as I do.

All I can tell you is that the military is ready to defend our country and is better equipped to do so than at any other time in history.

According to the "Top Brass" I heard this from, the Navy is the smallest it has ever been.





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Tom,



You have mail.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yawn, more tired rhetoric and hyperbole.



If only the democrats didn't suck so much they might actually be able to field a candidate, have some real ideas and plans of their own, and make a difference in this country, rather than being the "party of ear pissing" which they are today (and have been for the last 6+ years).



For a two party system to work, one of the parties can't be lame. All of those that bitch about Bush and his policies have no one but themselves to blame! You voted for him, or your lackthereof in putting up a viable alternative candidate led to his election. Either way, you and your party are a big part of the problem!



TJR

 

[TrainTrac]

After all, the Army is fighting the War on Terrorism and the Navy for the most part is just ferrying cargo back and forth.

:huh: You might want to rethink that statement, Nelson. The Navy is playing a huge role in the WOT.



-Carrier Strike Groups are providing air cover to the troops on the ground, and all the other ships/subs in the CSG are providing fire support to the troops on the ground. The CSG (mainly through the Carrier) functions as a Command and Control facility for many different forces engaged in the WOT.



-The Expeditionary Strike Groups are transporting Marines to their theaters of operation and also providing the Marines and their cooperating forces with Command and Control facilities. The ESG command ship (usually a LHD or LHA) also has a fully staffed, 600 bed, five operating room hospital facility on board. This is often where injured troops are first medevaced to for treatment.



-How about the thousands of USN Hospital Corpsmen deployed with the Fleet Marine Force? And the Navy has also deployed many other medical teams from their major facilites in Bethesda, Portsmouth, VA, and San Diego to Iraq to provide medical support.



-The Navy Seabees are doing tremendous work helping rebuild in Iraq and Afghanistan. And Sailors from my last command prior to retirement (Naval Computer and Telecommunications Area Master Station Atlantic) were being deployed as Individual Augmentees to Iraq or Afghanistan to assist with rebuilding communications and IT infrastructure. Some were even being assigned as security forces.



I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Every one of the 349,783 Sailors in the United States Navy are providing a vital contribution to the Global War on Terrorism. Whether they are part of the 37,644 Sailors deployed, everyone is doing their part in one way or another.



Considering your comment once again, an uninformed person could say the same thing about the Air Force... "After all, the Army is fighting the War on Terrorism and the Air Force for the most part is just sitting back on their posh, country club bases sending in a few planes now and then".



But you and I both know that's not true either.

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

Looks like we've caught Pres. Bush in another lie; about the economy as well as the war in Iraq. And, we're in a Catch 22; I mean we are cutting back the Air Force and yet we need more fighting power in the war on Terror. I also heard that the CIA special task force on finding Bin Laden was disbanded. The American Indians had it right "white man (in govt.) speak with forked tongue". I for one would like to know what gives? They passed & funded a 700 mile long fence, that will never be built, when there is over 2000 miles of unprotected border. :huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::wacko: