Home Invasion

[WilliamA Schultz]

It is impossible to live next to a 'drug house' without some awareness, there are too many clues unless you are naaive beyond help. It is not toughness that inspires Caymen to say "he invites them over" it is his recognition of the danger that exists in our society today. I also believe that as a responsible gun owner Caymen would never 'scare' anyone with a gun. If you see his gun it is probably one of your final moments. I would welcome him as a neighbor and sleep better knowing he's close to my home.

My wife and friends make fun of my 'drills' that I practice regularly in my home. The crashing in of a door would trigger an instant movement to one of several loaded firearms in my home. I was raised with loaded firearms in the house and taught at an early age NOT to touch as a child. I practice running through the house in total darkness in preparation for a nightime break-in, the first light an intruder sees will be muzzle flash.

I do not relish shooting someone, I actually pray that circumstance never occurs, however I stand AWARE, IN PREPARATION, and will respond with DEADLY FORCE.

All my prayers and wishes to your BIL, Eddie.

 

[WILL E]

They make fun of you but if the time comes, and we all hope it never happens in our homes, you will be ready.



We don't practice drills, although I like the idea, but the couple of times that the alarm has falsed (we left a door part open and the wind blew it). We separate with our firearms, we also have code words. I go in front and she waits behind.



Again, I live in a nice neighborhood. Next door neighbor is Law Enforcement. I have a teacher across the street, a nurse next door. Not much chance of someone confusing our house with the drug house next door. But drugs make you stupid and criminals do stupid things. Like most gun owners I don't 'want' trouble to come to me but if it does I will meet force with force.

 

[Richard L]

will e,

I think the issue is that Eddies Brother in Law had no idea that those kind of people were in the neighborhood.



As I previously said, these kinds of Home Invasions are happening all over and even in some very elite and crime free, gated communities.



Also, it has already been stated that if you do not feel safe in your own home, then it's time to move. I will add to that: I have firearms for home security, but if I ever feel that I have to carry a gun on me at all times while in my own home then it's past the time to move.



These kind of crimes are unpredictable and the criminal has the element of surprise. I suspect that almost anyone in that exact same situation would have suffered the same consequences as Eddies BIL did.



Simply having a security camera on the front door would have shown 3 unkown people at the door and could have allowed time to get your gun, insure it's cocked and loaded, and be ready if they rushed the door.



...Rich

 

[WILL E]

Good points Rich. Since it wasn't his home he wouldn't have known how bad the situation could get. And of course I don't know the whole story. I am not saying what he did was wrong or that I am smarter or better. I am just saying if it had been me I would have had my firearm on me. When someone unexpected came to the door I wouldn't have answered it (don't know if he did or didn't) or perhaps they just broke the door down. But there would have been no time lost on me retrieving a firearm.





I don't carry a firearm in my own home because I don't feel safe. I feel perfectly safe in my own home. I seriously doubt I will ever have cause to stop someone trying to break in. But these kind of crimes are unpredictable and the criminal has the element of surprise. What they are not expecting is to meet immediate force on force. They also are not going to break in and find one of my firearms before I can get to it. To me is just makes sense. I know where it is, on me is the safest place for it and I have immediate access regardless of which room I am in. (Okay, I don't shower with it on...)



It's kind of like carjacking. It happens. It can happen anywhere. You can be in the nicest neighborhood and it can happen. Given the chance I will hand my car over but if I fear for my life I am not going to call a 'time out' while I get the firearm out of the glove box or trunk or whatever.



So I understand why some, actually most, folks don't carry a firearm on them at home. i don't fault them for it at all. If it works for them that's fine with me. I hope I can convince folks that it really isn't such a bad idea but in the end we make up our own minds for our own reasons.

 

[WILL E]

I want to be really clear. I don't think Eddies B-inlaw did anything wrong or was negligent in anyway. He was a victim of a crime by three low lifes. Just because I say I would have been armed does not mean I think Eddies B-inlaw was wrong for not being armed. We make different choices for different reasons. Eddies B-inlaw isn't on the board and can't tell us his side of the story or 'defend' himself. He has nothing to defend. You should be able to be in someones home as an invited guest without fear of a horrific crime happening to you. He did not deserve what happened to him, armed or otherwise.



I am simply offering up an alternative approach. Some may think I am some kind of macho gun freak, others may say I am a coward in my own home. I believe my choice is based on logic as I see it. I offer compelling reasons to keep yourself armed at all times. I respect alternative points of view. If you feel you cannot keep the gun out of the hands of children, then I respect that you don't keep a gun around. If you feel that having to carry a gun in your own home means you don't feel safe, I am okay with that too.





I am just one of countless responsible gun owners. I thank you for considering and trying to understand my position.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Will



Member here feel the need to analize everything I say and try to discredit whatever I say.



Too many here live in "whiteyville" and think they are immune to crime and violence.



I support anyone that chooses not to carry a weapon. I carry a weapon because I want to be ready if ever some POS tries to take my life and it is my right to do so.



I do not carry my weapon in my home, but I do have one in my chair that is ready to go, if needed.





Tom

 

[WILL E]

Tom,

I think you know my intention was not to come to your specific defense. I haven't been around long enough on the board to know the different people yet.



Rich makes the point that 'normal' people would not have a gun when children are present. I am not sure that is a true statement. Rich might be surprised at how many people are armed. I don't put my gun away when children are present. I consider myself a pretty normal guy. All of my friends, I repeat, all of my friends know I am armed any time it is legal for me to be armed. Most of them would tell you that 'If anyone is going to be carrying a gun I want it to be him'. I am always armed when their children are present since we are never in a situation where it would be illegal for me to be armed. None of them have ever told me they feel uncomfortable and if they did I would respect their feelings and leave. I am good enough friends with these people that they know they can be honest with me.



I would hope that people on the the board do not disagree with you just because of your userid but I am also old enough to know that my hope is misplaced.



Tom/Rich I am not taking sides. I don't know either of you and have no skin in the game. I am expressing my viewpoint and I hope (there is that word again) that someone might look at my rational argument and say "That makes sense, I am going to do that too".

 

[Richard L]

will e,

I have a lot of friends, and none of them carry guns while in there house. There may be a gun nearby or handy, but nobody had answered my knock on the door with a gun in their hand or waistband. So I think I am pretty safe to say that the overwhelming majority of people do not carry guns on them when they are in their home. That's why the criminals have turned to Home Invasions, especially in nicer neighborhoods. It's a complete suprise to the occupants since they live in a neighborhood that is very safe, and often even leave their door unlocked.



I don't have small children around, but I still don't leave guns lying around, just in case a friend comes by with a child...it's just too easy to forget you left the Glock on the coffee table and the kid sees it and suddenly it's too late.



Every few weeks there is a news story about how a toddler got hold of a gun and shot themselves or someone else. Now most states have laws that will procecute the parents for letting a kid have access to an unsecure gun. Every few weeks there is an elementry school kid who gets caught with a loaded gun in his napsack, and I'm talking about 2nd and 3rd graders.



Home invasions are not that common, and the odds that someone will choose my house to kick in the door is probably pretty slim. I think my odds of winning the lottery or getting struck by lightning would be better. I do have a gun, but never carry it with me while I am in the house and don't leave it laying around for the previously stated reasons.



I understand that having a gun provides a level of security, but not being accessable defeats the purpose in most cases such as in a home invasion. I think the odds are greater that I will forget and leave the gun out where a kid can get it, then my home being targeted for a home invasion. If I lived in a different neighborhood I might think differently, but then I would not live in that neighborhood very long.



The reason I took exception to what Caymen said was that he was acting all macho about his having a gun...so much so that he actually invited criminals to come to his house...That is just stupid. Does he expect them to call and make an appointment to rob him!! No, they are going to come when he least expects it and they may have guns of their own.



They don't even have to knock on the door or kick it in. They can hide outside your house and jump you when you arrive home and open your door. So you cannot plan for every scenario the criminals can find another way....That's how the criminal mind works, always planning and scheming.



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

There may be a gun nearby or handy, but nobody had answered my knock on the door with a gun in their hand or waistband.

It is called concealed carry for a reason. I place my gun in my holster under my shirt and unless you frisk me, you will not see a gun.



More people carry than you might think. It is not about brandishing the weapon or having it in your hand. It is keeping it hidden at all times, unless needed.

The reason I took exception to what Caymen said was that he was acting all macho about his having a gun...so much so that he actually invited criminals to come to his house...That is just stupid. Does he expect them to call and make an appointment to rob him!! No, they are going to come when he least expects it and they may have guns of their own.

Actually it is because you have a hard on for me and take everything I say in a literal way. A criminal can hide in the bushes waiting for me, but 99.9999% of the time I am armed. The criminal does not know if I am armed or not. One slip up and I will do what I have to do for my safety.



To "invite them into my home" is not a "Come on bad guys, my door is open to you". It is I invite them to try it with me. Break into my home and find out what happens.



It is interesting that Will E knew what I said while you just felt the need to be an ass.





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Thanks for reminding me why I stopped coming to this site.

 

[Les]

Thanks for reminding me why I stopped coming to this site.

Nelson, that's why it's called the "Off-Topic Message Board" and why TVs have channel selectors.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

"Hold on, there is a knock at the door. Time to grab my gun."



Nice neighborhood I live in. Maybe its time to move?



TJR

 

[WILL E]

Again, I don't want to get between the two of you guys.



And I don't do the quote thing, I don't like to pick apart stuff. Rich, you said most normal people wouldn't have a loaded gun handy when children are present. I think there are a lot of normal people who do. That's different than people who carry guns with them in their house. I agree, most of my friends, even the abnormal ones , don't answer the door with a holstered firearm. Their choice.



Regarding children gaining access to my firearm. I would again argue that having the firearm on me, holstered, at all times is the safest place. I do not leave the firearm laying around. This may not be suitable for everyone, there is a lot of responsibility associated with owning and carrying a firearm and people need to weigh the benefits and risks. If you google accidental deaths you will find that firearms are low on the list.



While Caymans 'Bring it on' may seem like macho bravido most firearm carriers are not looking for a fight. In fact you tend to avoid escalations because you understand the possible consequences. And we don't go running to a fight. If I am at the mall and someone starts shooting somewhere, I am heading for the exit. It is Hollywood that promotes the 'cowboy' everyone is going to pull out their 'heat' and start shooting myth. I think he is just projecting his frustration that there are people out that there that will hurt innocent people.

 

[Les]

"whiteyville"

?

 

[Richard L]

will e,

While Caymans 'Bring it on' may seem like macho bravido most firearm carriers are not looking for a fight.

That's exactly why I called out Caymen on his statement. People who have a Concealed Weapons permit are warned about such macho statements and which leads me to believe that Caymen does not actually possess a CW permit and it's just more of his huffing and puffing to make himself sound more important.



That's not to say he does not carry a weapon 99.9% of the time (illegally), and I doubt that his employer knows this since most places of employment do not allow employee's to carry guns to work, even with a CW permit. I'm sure Caymen will make up a new lie to fit this situation too.



If you or anyone feels so unsafe in your own home, please feel free to keep your gun with you at all times...That's your right. That's your own personal paranoia problem.



I was in the military for 20 years and I was often in situations where I carried a rifle or side arm 24/7. These situations were far more threating and far more likely to happen than any home invasion. Carrying any kind of weapon 24/7 gets old very quickly...Hell, I don't even like to carry my cellphone, especially in my house.



I just think that some gun owners are way to paranoid about carrying a gun when the risk of anything happening, especially in their own home is almost negligable. Just having the gun in the house probably increases their odds of something happening, even just an accident while cleaning the gun.



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

That's not to say he does not carry a weapon 99.9% of the time (illegally), and I doubt that his employer knows this since most places of employment do not allow employee's to carry guns to work, even with a CW permit. I'm sure Caymen will make up a new lie to fit this situation too.

You are a sick individual. I do have a CCW permit, in two states, I might add.



I do not carry my weapon at work because they do not allow them. Then again, we are behind an 8 foot fence with barbed wire on top of it. My weapon is in my car while I am at work and there is nothing illegal about it.



As usual, Rich you are an ass. Plain and simple. You call me a felon because you THINK I carry a gun illegally. Of course, in Ohio, I can carry a gun open in public and there is nothing anyone can say.



Go ahead, call me a felon. If that makes you feel all bad ass, so be it. You are the fool.

even just an accident while cleaning the gun.

I don't know who taught you how to clean a gun, but my range master for my CCW training taught us that when cleaning a gun you NEVER have ammo in the same room. Then again, maybe you were not in the military but want to make yourself sound like a know it all.



You were a crew chief for a NHRA racing team, you invented the PC, and you were the number one car salesman in the USA.





Tom

 

[WILL E]

Rich,



I thought I had provided a rational and non-judgemental arguement for carrying a firearm both in your home and outside of the home. Then you come up with this:



"If you or anyone feels so unsafe in your own home, please feel free to keep your gun with you at all times...That's your right. That's your own personal paranoia problem."



I thought I was clear that I do not feel unsafe in my own home. I don't make any assumptions about why you don't carry a gun and I don't try to make it sound like there is something wrong with you. You are basically saying. "I feel safe so I don't carry a gun, you carry a gun so you must not feel safe and btw you are paradnoid as well". I look at it as being prepared for the extremely slight possibility that a criminal may try to invade my home. It would be just as unfair for me to say something like "you don't carry a gun because you can't handle responsibility and are afraid of them". That's unfair. I don't know you and I can't make that kind of judgement about you. You gave some pretty good reasons why you don't think you want a gun around children. I don't completly agree with those reasons but I don't make the assumption that there is something wrong with you because we disagree.

 

[Richard L]

Caymen,

I can smell BS when I hear it...and 99.9% of what you post here does not pass the sniff test.



If you have two CW permits which states are they from, and why don't you post a copy here? I know you won't because I don't believe you have ONE from any State. Ya, I know you will say that you don't have to prove anything to me. You always talk trash but can never come up with proof of anything you say and that always smells of BS.



If you do not carry your weapon into your place of employment, then you cannot possibly be carrying your weapon 99.9% of the time like you stated...Just another one of your BS exagerations that I called you out on.



I never shot myself cleanig a weapon, but many people have done it in the past and there are statistics to prove it. It does not require a CW permit to carry a gun in your own house, so that also means that many people who buy or own guns are not trained how to safely handle a gun.,,,thus accidents will happen.



I can prove I was in the military..I have my military ID card and even my old security badge for access to all DOD buildings in Washington DC. I will post them as soon as you post your CW permit from either state you claim to have it from.



SO PUT UP OR SHUT UP !



...Rich

 

[Jacob Dryer]

Flex Cough, Done.

 

[Richard L]

will e,

I look at it as being prepared for the extremely slight possibility that a criminal may try to invade my home

Paranoia is an irrational fear that someone is out to get you. Perhaps that is too strong, perhaps Phobia might be better. But it does appear that you have some fear of being caught unarmed? Perhaps you are just excercising your right to bear arms...but you keep eluding to that fact that you will be ready if a criminal tries to get into your house? While that could happen, the odds are very very remote and that in my mind borders on paranoia or some kind of phobia.



I am not trying to insult you, or tell you that you should not carry a gun 24./7 even in your own home, but your reasoning is totally irrational in my opinion. Having a gun in the house could be consider a rational protective measure for most home owners. Carrying that weapon 24/7 in your own home would indicate some level of insecurity. So if you claim that you live in a nice neighborhood, and feel save in your home, your obsesion with carrying a gun while in your home is irrational.



Again, no offense is intended towards you. I just don't understand your logic when you admitt that the chances of something happening are extremely remote, but you still carry the gun in your house??



...Rich