How bad is the economy?

[Jerry Gerner 2]

If it where that simple then don't you think most if not all people would do so. Man, some people are out of touch with reality. Most people are barely getting by form paycheck to paycheck with even with some assistance form the gov't. As for the nation being the way it is financially, the fact is most people of this great nation are mainly to blame for the situation their in, not all but most. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your own actions. Whatever happened to working hard and being proud of an honest days work and living on that. Most the people that got screwed are the ones that lived on credit be it (credit cards, homes loans,etc.) that they couldn't afford and new it and now the economy is in the tank and jobs are gone they're crying foul. "It's the gov't's fault, it's the stock markets fault, it's Bernie Madoff's (however you spell his name) fualt. No people, it's mainly your's. It's amazing how everyone wants to points fingers and not lay claim to there own demize. I was taught you work hard, "SAVE" your money (not give it to some high roller on wall street and hope to get rich), "SAVE your money just incase of hard times i.e. rainy days or in todays case rainy years. No one pointed a gun at these people's heads and said they had to go out and get these houses (mini mansions') just to "look rich" when they knew damn well they couldn't afford it. I grew up in the country living in old ass trailer homes and often in cars and sometimes on the streets. I've brought myself back from nothing a couple times in my adult years because I wanted to and with no help from any family or the gov't did I do that. I took my life in my own hands and made something for myself. The problem nowadays isn't the gov't, it's the peolpe that want everything "now" and don't want to pay for it or do go out and put all their money into big rims , t.v.'s, expensive clothes, etc. and not into their savings and their bills, rent, mortage or whatever else they should be worried about. I know I'm gonna get alot of harsh statements sent my way for this but it's the truth and the truth hurts.

:argue::banghead::boohoo::yawn::yawn::btddhorse:



Take control of your own lives and make something of it, don't wait around for the gov't to change because it hasn't in over two hundred years. And I'm out. :haveabeer:

 

[TrainTrac]

If there are no jobs in you area, move to where there are jobs.

The late, great Sam Kinison had a similar philosophy regarding world hunger.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/P0q4o58pKwA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Jerry Gerner 2]

:haveabeer: TrainTrac, that and over population in those countries. :smack::angry::boohoo:

 

[Les]

Jerry C, +1

 

[H D]

Jerry, very admirable. Exactly right.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Jerry Gerner, though I agree with most of what you say, the housing boom and the bust was caused largely by our govt.



Sure, no one put a gun to borrower's heads and forced them to over-extend themselves. However, our govt passed the laws that allowed the bad loans and the predatory lending to happen where it otherwise could not and did not.



TJR

 

[Jerry Gerner 2]

Again and I'm not trying to fight or argue with anyone on here but "Personal Responsiblity" for your own actions. WTH people, yes they made it easier for *******'s that wanted to look like they were living the good life in these nice homes but that doesn't excuse the fact. It's no different then say your kid smoking, drinking, doing drugs or even breaking the law by say stealing a car, etc.. You're not gonna blame the person for giving or selling them those products, no you're gonna blame and punish your kid for doing those stupid things. I'm no saint by any stretch but I grew up in a family where everyone smoked, even my brother when he started at age 9 but have I ever smoked or done drugs even though if I wanted to I could've gotten them for free from him or other family members, no I didn't because I made that choice "NOT" to. This is what's wrong with America, too much "P.C.", too much point the finger and sew that company because I spilled a hot coffee on myself and got burned, ******* you know it's hot, you're not ordering cold coffee right.

:smack::boohoo:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Jerry,



And I am not trying to argue personal responsibility either. I agree with you on that.



What I am trying to convey is the magnitude of the problem caused directly by our government.



The fall of banks in 2008 and 2009 and the recession that we are just coming out of was caused, directly, by the change in lending laws brought on under the Clinton administration (not blaming, just attributing). Before that time, no such boom in the housing market could have existed, not to that extent.



So, the huge loss in 401k and retirement savings over the past 3 years, losses that are just starting to come back have all been caused by the recession, which was caused by the housing bust, which was made worse by an over-inflated boom, that was artificially inflated due to changes in lending laws.



Sure, borrowers also are responsible, they are responsible for their own personal situations and for anyone in foreclosure now, well, they get little sympathy from me. But the guy and gal that saved all their lives, put money into their 401ks, put money away for college for their kids, etc, and that didn't live beyond their means and were responsible got hit VERY HARD over the past few years due to the recession. Again, a recession caused directly by our govt.



I'm all for smaller govt, but this is an example of where government interferred (tampered) and changed things, giving enough people a loaded gun with which they could not only shoot themselves, but also cause enormouse collateral damage that hurt lots of innocent people.



Govt's job isn't to protect people from themselves, granted. That's where personal responsibility comes in. However, it is the role of govt to provide some level of protection of one citizens from the actions of another. In this case, our govt was contributory in our citizens causing harm to one another...the irresponsible essentially f'ing over the responsible, BIG TIME!



TJR

 

[Johnny O]

I used that Sam Kinison example when I taught a college economics class. :grin:

 

[H D]

It wasn't so much that they allowed banks to make loans that were bad, they FORCED banks to make bad loans.



Then again, if you make $20k a year, have 4 kids, and a $500/mo. leased Caddy, what would make you think you could afford a $200k house? Oh, you can't, but you certainly deserve it. Go ahead, somebody else will pay for it in the end.

 

[Jerry Gerner 2]

This is a great analogy about the whole bank/ wannabe home owner fiasco.



"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible".



Think about it !!!



Hugh, I see you get it.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Then again, if you make $20k a year, have 4 kids, and a $500/mo. leased Caddy, what would make you think you could afford a $200k house? Oh, you can't, but you certainly deserve it. Go ahead, somebody else will pay for it in the end.

There is more to it. This is only a small percentage of those affected by this debacle. There are many people that were suckered into these predatory loans that were set up to fail from the start with the intent to screw the home owner.





Tom

 

[Robert Thomas]

"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible".

Genius



Thats all that needs to be said

 

[Les]

There are many people that were suckered into these predatory loans that were set up to fail from the start with the intent to screw the home owner.

Caymen, ever the conspiracy theorist. The intent was not to "screw the home owner", the intent was to make money. This wasn't a big government scheme to rip off their citizens, nor was it devised by banks to make money, they just saw the opportunity and ran with it. In the end, the government looks pretty dense, and the banks will end up losing much of what they earned thru foreclosures. Granted, the people that profited, Wall Street and mortgage brokers will walk away with their money, but there are always winners and losers. If you couldn't figure out that a mortgage of $2500 a month, could not be paid with an income of $3000 a month, then you're just too stupid to own a home. Quit blaming the government, the banks and everyone else, the person most responsible is the person looking back at you in the mirror. Besides, many of these people have been, and are still living in their homes for over two years rent free.

 

[Richard L]

I agree that there is plenty of blame to go around, but I don't consider myself a snowflake and I'm pretty sure most of you do not consider yourselves snowflakes either.



I agree with TJR that the Clinton administation pressured the Morgtgage system to get more people qualified for home loans. The mortgage industry then just turned a blind eye to applicants qualifications. Some people lied about their income and expenses, but the mortgage companies did not do a very good job in doing credit checks, and income verification.



With the slick variable rate interest mortgage loans, people were lulled into thinking they could buy more expensive homes with artificially inflated prices than they really could afford. When the interest rate jumped up and the economy started to slump, reality hit home and many found that they could not sell the house for anywhere near what they paid, and many lost their homes.



My daughter and her husband bought a home just a few months before the mortgage meltdown. They bought a modest home for $166K but the salesman tried to convince them that they qualified for homes costing nearly twice as much. My daughter is so glad that they were not talked into buy the more expensive house since they got divorced about a year later...she got the house but also got the mortgage payments along with it and would have lost the house if they had bought a more expensive home.



It's kind of like what the Cable and Satellite TV services are doing. They want you to sign a contract for 2 years and give you attractive, locked in rates for the first year, but cannot tell you what the regular rate will be the following year...some are nearly double the price of their introductory rate. Then they wonder why people breach the contract and they charge them $150-$250 dollars to cancel something that they cannot afford.



Many consumers were naive to the perils they were being exposed to because the government regulators failed to do their jobs and that's what triggered the avalanche.



...Rich

 

[Johnny O]

It started out with the Community Reinvestment Act but over time there was just too much easy money pumped into the housing market for everybody. The banks didn't care about the run-up in prices or risky loans because if someone defaulted, the bank could sell the house at a big profit anyway. That works as long as prices are going up. Eventually people will quit paying, or cannot afford, the price of a house, demand drops, followed shortly by prices. When houses are worth less than people owe, everybody has problems. Although as long as you can make your payments, there is no reason to walk away from your house IMO.



A few years ago when times were good, my cousin's son moved to L.A. for his first real job after grad school. 23 years old, has a good job, but no work history other than making sandwiches at Panera Bread when he was in college and he got a $1 million mortgage with no money down on a four-plex. He lives in one and rents out the other three. I knew right then that the bubble would burst sooner rather than later.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Jerry G said:

This is a great analogy about the whole bank/ wannabe home owner fiasco.



"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible".



Think about it !!!



Hugh, I see you get it.

Funny analogy. And, I guess I also "get it", as does Hugh, because I agree that people that bought homes they shouldn't have been able to otherwise afford, had no personal business doing so and when bad things them happened to them, they have no one to blame.



But a simple analogy of snow flakes and an avalanche tend to put things in too simple of terms.



Again, Jerry, you refuse to acknowledge that through the actions of our government, some of its citizens were given the opportunity to throw personal responsibility out the window, and due to their actions hurt themselves AND INNOCENT OTHERS.



The analogy is funny, but it doesn't take into account the small trees, the skiers, and the town at the base of the mountain that are all innocent, but taken out by the avalanche...sure, blame each snowflake, but many of those hit hardest had nothing to do with avalanche and didn't contribute to it.



It's as if, the municipality that prevents avalanches was asleep at the wheel. Maybe they instituted some new policy that allows avalanches to happen, or worse, causes avalanches.



When that's the case, sure, we can blame the snow. But snow does what snow does. Left unchecked it will do things that hurts others.



I blame those that lost their homes for their own actions. I blame those that lost their jobs or their savings due to the actions of others...actions that were allowed by our govt not because the govt FAILED to do its job or FAILED to act, but JUST THE OPPOSITE, because our govt tampered with laws and regulations that were in place for generations.



It is easy to blame the people that bought homes they shouldn't and not feel bad for them, and to call the irresponsible. But what exactly do we say to the innocent person that lost his or her job, or savings? Should he go punch the guy in the nose that is having his house foreclosed on? Or should he hold his govt (more) accountable?



TJR

 

[Jerry Gerner 2]

Ok, here's the next thing to blame the gov't for since no one wants to take responsibility. Cash for Clunkers, thousands have already had their nice new rides repo'd because the big bad gov't gave them the opportunity to trade in their old ass beat cars and trucks that they could barely afford to keep drivable in on new shiny vehicles that there was No way in hell they could afford. Yep, all gov't's fault, not the ******* that new they couldn't afford a car payment but did tried to do it anyway. It's like when you're a kid and a old man asks if you want a piece of candy, sure, you're a kid, you want that piece of candy but it comes down to you knowing better. I can understand the innocent people that got screwed in this whole housing deal but seriously tell me you don't know of atleast a couple people that bought a house they had no way of affording should something bad happening. Always expect and be ready for the worst of times especially in the "best" of times. Kinda like idiots on drugs, alcohol, etc. sure you get to be out of reality and away from worries and cares for a short period but wow, your more F-d then when you were stoned or drunk. I know alot of people like this, most in my own family but I didn't turn out that way, because I made the smart decisions. I feel for all the "innocent" people out there that got screwed. :boohoo:

 

[Roger Batts]

My wife is the director of a daycare in the Dallas/Ft Worth area. She is always looking for quality people willing to teach children from newborn to five years.

 

[Les]

I feel for all the "innocent" people out there that got screwed.

There are no "innocent" people, they were all responsible on some level.