Keep track until the nightmare is over

[Gavin Allan]

It couldn't possibly get any worse.





Tom

Seriously Tom, what is so bad?



Interest rates are low.

Unemployment is very low.

Standard of living is very high.

We have the best medical care in the world.

We have more freedom than others.



What is so bad?

 

[Tom Schindler]

Coastie,



I know where you are coming from. I just HONESTLY hope the reason people are anti-Clinton is because she is is woman. The same with Obama. He has a Muslim name and black skin.



I truly hope deep down inside people are looking past the color, race, and/or sex of the candidate.



Unfortunatly, I think peoples first impression is "Oh no and f'ing woman" or "What a black Muslim? No way!"



If we think that is not true, I think we really need to look at ourselves.



The same would go if a gay person ran for president. "What a F_____ No way!"





Tom

 

[P M]

I assure you, my anti-Hillary stance is based entirely on her actions and how I feel she would lead the country. Just think of the coattail riders who will come out of the woodwork looking for appointments if she were to be president. Ugh...



My biggest problem with her is that she is a hard core politician. Not unlike others in both parties, she just takes it to a new level. She says and does what generates positive publicity for herself. A leader has the responsibility to make the right decision regardless of how popular the decision may be. Politicians have a hard time with that.

 

[Tom Schindler]

PRM,



Polititions say and do whatever it takes to get into office. Once they are in office, they do whatever pays them the most.



How is she any different than any others?





Tom

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Tom, I will strongly agree that many see either a female or a black person and can not see past that. That will fade in time. Will it be this time?????? Only time will tell.



I personally believe that a huge percentage of Americans are still very raciest. Because of that, I think a woman will be elected before a person of color other than white. I personally could care less the color of your skin or what is between your legs, I care about the right and wrong of things.



Another prediction I said about 10 years ago was, (Paraphrased), if a person with any color of skin makes it into office other than white, or, if they were not some sort of hero (Like Powell a few years back), that they would not see their end of office by any other means than assassination.



Do i still think that is true. To some degree yes, but even in as little as ten years I have seen the attitude of Americans relax a bit.



Politics and religion are two very dangerous areas to mess with. Both from the public view of things to the legal stand point.



Being objective is critical in having this type of conversation. It can be very entertaining until someone simply stops playing and says something just to push the buttons of others. I am glad to see this is still a safe conversation... LOL

 

[Gavin Allan]

I don't think that many folks are against Hillary because she is a woman, or Obama because he is black/muslim. Sure-- there are some out there who think that way, but I don't see this as a majority view.



I think most folks vote on issues and experience, and what they think will happen and what is best for the country.



As for me, I don't care if we elect a gay female baboon that speaks Tasmanian and has a disability and birth defect. If this person can best run our country, I would vote for them.

 

[Tom Schindler]

I personally believe that a huge percentage of Americans are still very raciest. Because of that, I think a woman will be elected before a person of color other than white. I personally could care less the color of your skin or what is between your legs, I care about the right and wrong of things.

Deep down inside, every human being has some type or form of racism in them. No matter who you are, there is a tiny bit. I know I have some racism in me. When I see a young black man walk up to me, I raise my guard. If it were a white man, I would not be as concerened, if not at all.



As I said, I only hope that our feelings about Obama and Clinton are ONLY views about their beliefs and not the other way around.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen says:

For the majority of Americans that are sick and tired of the tyrant in DC, you can get this handy clock to keep track of the day that we get our freedoms back.

"Tyrant"...."get our freedoms back"...



Hey, I'm as critical of Bush as the next guy, but I don't see how rhetoric like that can help one's case.



TJR

 

[EddieS'04]

Nelson, you are right. Iam not much of a political debater. But this country is 2 decades over due for a strong 3rd party...

Iam fed up with the present republican party(despite some of the truths Gavin points out) and I cant buy into the socialism the dems would lead us to..

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



So you would hope that this country is past it's petiness and able to see that a white woman or a black man can be as capable of running this country and shouldn't be discounted merely on sex or race. I agree that's a good thing to hope for.



Yet, a few months ago you indicated on this website that you had the ulitmate say in your house and are able to assert your will over your wife's; and that is the way that it should be. I think that you even said that for many things you are simply more capable of making the right decision.



M'kay.



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

I agree on the need for a third party. Neither the demos or repubs represent my beliefs.

 

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



My biblical view of family headship has nothing to do with my secular view of government. Neither have anything to do with the other, though you would like to vilify me into thinking that way.



Government needs to say out of religon and religon needs to stay out of government.





Tom

 

[A K]

Government needs to say out of religon and religon needs to stay out of government.

But does religion need to stay out of the Rockies clubhouse? Discuss.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



It all just seems illogical to me, Caymen...not villainous.



You seem to imply that a woman is not suitable or right for co-leadership of a family, yet she is quite fine for leading the free world.



Simply illogical and hypocritical, IMHO.



Almost as hypocritical as "wishing" people could see past sex, color and race in one hand while on the other hand saying with a straight face that a wife should be subservient to her husband and bow to his will and rule.



It's as if you are preaching enlightenment while wallowing in backwards-thinking.



Don’t shoot the messenger…I am just observing, not judging.



TJR

 

[Nelson Atwell]

TJR,



Tom (Caymen) is an enigma. Haven't you figured that out yet?



P.S. Tom, I am not calling you a name.

 

[Tom Schindler]

You seem to imply that a woman is not suitable or right for co-leadership of a family, yet she is quite fine for leading the free world.



Simply illogical and hypocritical, IMHO.

Nothing hypocritical at all. My religous views dictate my life. I put my faith in the bible. At the same time, I know the the government is there to take care of the country it represents and it is not required to follow the bible, and in my opinion, it shouldn't.



How is that confusing?





Tom

 

[Bob Alcaro]

Please! Please! no more Clinton's or Rodham's or whatever she is calling herself today!



Here's a woman who as first lady didn't know how 240 "Top Secret-Classidied" files appeared on her dining room table, had no knowledge of how, why, or whatever reason Vince Foster would commit suicide, with questionable documents in his briefcase, no response to the questions about the missing WhiteHouse silverware, as well as other token knicNacks?

This is a woman who cannot remember anything and yet she gets $6.million to write her biography, which hasn't yet been started. (OH! yea, and her husband - who not only can't remember anything but doesn't know the meaning of the word: "is". and he gets $12. million for his "memoirs")

Please! Please! NOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo not again..........

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



Are you serious? How is it not confusing?



Here is the way I see things:



The Bible was written by men with an agenda. Yes, I know, many say it is the innerant word of God, but that clearly isn't the case for anyone willing to read up on Bible history, and recognize the revisionist nature of the Bible. The Bible, though clearly inspired by those that claim to have heard the word of God, isn't a complete book...it is a version of what men at certain points in time wanted to include in the book for the primary purpose of furthering their religion.



So, to say that one's religious views dictate that the man is the head of household and that the woman is to be subservient need (IMHO) to simply recognize that the Bible was written by MEN. Nuff said.



My dad told me that black people are lazy, they steal, and they can't be trusted. He also told me that women aren't as smart as men and that they can't make good decisions because they are emotional. His dad no doubt told him the same thing. Just because someone you trust says something with convicition, and that many believe it to be true it doesn't make it true.



At a certain point people have to start thinking for themselves. Sure, we would like to say that we have beliefs and that our beliefs should stand the test of time. I'm all for that. But we should always be willing to question our beliefs, and as importantly question where they have come from and even if they are our own.



So, go ahead Tom. You go ahead and vote for Hillary to show how enlightened you are, then you go and tell people how they should judge Hillary not on her sex, but on her abilities...you go ahead, I am sure it will make you feel better.



The question is, how will it make your wife feel when you give all this power to females in the outside world, yet in your house, you make it clear as to WHO is in charge?



The question isn't whether or not your actions are confusing to you, or me...but will they be confusing to HER?



(Sorry to bring her into this...but ultimately this is about her...we are the men, right...the one's with the power <sarcasm>).



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

The question is, how will it make your wife feel when you give all this power to females in the outside world, yet in your house, you make it clear as to WHO is in charge?

Unlike most Catholics, she does read the bible. She knows what the bible says about proper headship in a family.



The difference between you and I is that you see the bible as mans word. I see it as Gods word written through man.



Nobody says I am voting for Clinton.



All I said is hopefully people are not first swayed against her because she is a female and nobody is swayed away from Obama because he is looked at as a black Muslim. He may be black, but he is not a Muslim. But the is besides the point.



They do have some hope. America elected a man that has reading problems and the personaility of a chimp...except not as funny or witty.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen says:

They do have some hope. America elected a man that has reading problems and the personaility of a chimp

So that's hope?



You are saying that since America has shown it will vote for a man that isn't smart or that looks like a monkey they might therefore be ready to vote for a woman or a black man?



It seems you are equating lack of intelligence and looking like a monkey as being similar to being a woman or black?



Does that mean that you think that women aren't smart and that blacks look like monkeys?



Again, you confuse me, Tom.



TJR