Kelly Hummel
Member
I RECENTLY PURCHASED AMBER LED LIGHTS FOR MY TURNING SIGNAL...AFTER INSTALLING THEM AND TESTING MY TURN SIGNAL ALL I GOT WAS A BUZZING NOISE CAN ANYONE HELP ME WITH THIS....THANKS IN ADVANCE
Led turning signal
- Thread starter Kelly Hummel
- Start date
Help Support Ford SportTrac Forum:
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- V8 engine
- What year is your Sport Trac?
- 2010
- What Generation is your Sport Trac?
- 2n Gen Owner
I know if the LED's don't come with resisters built in, you MUST install a resister to get the flashing correct..
ALSO are they installed with the correct polarity, I know LED's can only be installed in 1 direction.
Todd Z
ALSO are they installed with the correct polarity, I know LED's can only be installed in 1 direction.
Todd Z
Scott Tanner
Well-Known Member
a heavy-duty flasher may work also... the kind you need for towing..
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what the buzzing is about, but when you install LED bulbs, you also need to install an electronic flasher. The part number is EP-27, and it sells for around $12.99 at Autozone or other parts stores.
You don't necessarily need a resistor. Just replacing your flasher unit with an electronic one will do the trick. And it's a simple swap with the existing relay-type flasher unit. It's located under the dash near the steering column. I have all LED's in my rear lights, and I installed the electronic flasher unit and everything works like a charm.
Some LED's are not polarity-sensitive, but try reversing them anyway. That may cure the buzzing.
You don't necessarily need a resistor. Just replacing your flasher unit with an electronic one will do the trick. And it's a simple swap with the existing relay-type flasher unit. It's located under the dash near the steering column. I have all LED's in my rear lights, and I installed the electronic flasher unit and everything works like a charm.
Some LED's are not polarity-sensitive, but try reversing them anyway. That may cure the buzzing.
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Dallas Starr
Well-Known Member
I have also changed out all my lighting to LEDs and have installed the EP-27. Its a simple plug and play, the toughest part was locating it... i just put on my hazards and located it by ear.. haha
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
...just say NO to LED replacement bulbs.
Mike Wilson
Well-Known Member
Why "No", Tiger.
Have you had problems with them?:unsure:
Have you had problems with them?:unsure:
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
No, I wouldn't use LED type replacement bulbs 'cause they are too dim, too small, unsafe, and possibly illegal.
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
Too dim?:huh:
The ones I have in my tail lights are much brighter than incandescent bulbs. And they're about the same size as an incandescent 3157 bulb.
How are they unsafe?
As to the legality of LED bulbs, I suppose that would vary from state to state, but consider this: These days, many automakers are equipping new vehicles with LED tail lights as OEM standard equipment.
The ones I have in my tail lights are much brighter than incandescent bulbs. And they're about the same size as an incandescent 3157 bulb.
How are they unsafe?
As to the legality of LED bulbs, I suppose that would vary from state to state, but consider this: These days, many automakers are equipping new vehicles with LED tail lights as OEM standard equipment.
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Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
Consider this:
OEM LEDS are much, much bigger then the bargain-bin LEDs found in "bulb replacement" types.
The number of LEDs exceeds that found in "bulb replacement" types.
The type of LED is of high quality with a very wide viewing angle; wide for LEDs that is.
Consider this, when you look at a headlamp, with the headlights on, what do you see? A bulb? No, you see the reflector. When you see the person in front of you step on the brake, what do you see? Just the small bulb, or the entire reflector?
Cheap LED "bulb replacement" are made with a small number of poor quality, low-angle LEDs that while they do emit light sooner then a filament, effectively reduce the overall apparent size of the lamp when lit. Check local laws and regulations as to the distance and angle lights need to be seen from, and I'll bet you'll find these LED "bulb replacements" fail to meet those regulations.
There are a few "bulb replacement" LED clusters that are much, much better then the crap you buy at the parts store, but they are quite expensive. They are still small in size, but use higher-angle LEDs in a shaped array that allows some light to be reflected by the reflector and at different angles then 90° from the base.
Leave the LED integration to OEM, they have teams of engineers and vast resources to get it right, as opposed to a few LEDs slapped on a circuit board in China by a company not listed on the NYSE.
OEM LEDS are much, much bigger then the bargain-bin LEDs found in "bulb replacement" types.
The number of LEDs exceeds that found in "bulb replacement" types.
The type of LED is of high quality with a very wide viewing angle; wide for LEDs that is.
Consider this, when you look at a headlamp, with the headlights on, what do you see? A bulb? No, you see the reflector. When you see the person in front of you step on the brake, what do you see? Just the small bulb, or the entire reflector?
Cheap LED "bulb replacement" are made with a small number of poor quality, low-angle LEDs that while they do emit light sooner then a filament, effectively reduce the overall apparent size of the lamp when lit. Check local laws and regulations as to the distance and angle lights need to be seen from, and I'll bet you'll find these LED "bulb replacements" fail to meet those regulations.
There are a few "bulb replacement" LED clusters that are much, much better then the crap you buy at the parts store, but they are quite expensive. They are still small in size, but use higher-angle LEDs in a shaped array that allows some light to be reflected by the reflector and at different angles then 90° from the base.
Leave the LED integration to OEM, they have teams of engineers and vast resources to get it right, as opposed to a few LEDs slapped on a circuit board in China by a company not listed on the NYSE.
TrainTrac
Well-Known Member
The LED bulbs I'm using are very good. The have LED's firing out both the front, rear, and sides of the bulb, and they fire back into the reflector of the lens quite well. In fact, more light is visible from the reflector with my LED bulbs than with the OEM filament bulbs. They are also quite visible from the sides.
They weren't expensive either. Quality LED replacement bulbs are out there, you just have to do your homework and find them.
They weren't expensive either. Quality LED replacement bulbs are out there, you just have to do your homework and find them.
Tiger,
I disagree with your theory. You are implying that you see more light with a larger reflector which is not true. You only see a larger light...but not necessarily brighter-.
The reflector only directs the light emitting from the side of the bulb to be directed out throught the lens. An LED directs the light through a lens in the tip and accomplishes what the reflector and conventional bulb do.
The advantages are that an LED is much brighter than a standard bulb although more directional. The LED will be much brigher view directly in front of the bulb, while it will be slightly dimmer when viewed off angle. The viewing angle varies from as little as 40 degrees to about 100 degrees.
Since most vehicles use the same size and candlepower bulb the only difference is the shape and size of the reflector. The Lens in the LED directs the light to a narrower angle than the reflector, but the light is much brighter and much more visible at longer distances.
...Rich
I disagree with your theory. You are implying that you see more light with a larger reflector which is not true. You only see a larger light...but not necessarily brighter-.
The reflector only directs the light emitting from the side of the bulb to be directed out throught the lens. An LED directs the light through a lens in the tip and accomplishes what the reflector and conventional bulb do.
The advantages are that an LED is much brighter than a standard bulb although more directional. The LED will be much brigher view directly in front of the bulb, while it will be slightly dimmer when viewed off angle. The viewing angle varies from as little as 40 degrees to about 100 degrees.
Since most vehicles use the same size and candlepower bulb the only difference is the shape and size of the reflector. The Lens in the LED directs the light to a narrower angle than the reflector, but the light is much brighter and much more visible at longer distances.
...Rich
Jeff C
Well-Known Member
I'm gonna have to agree with Tiger on this one. You can get replacement LEDs on eBay for about $30 a piece (last time I looked) that have several dozen wide angle LEDs on all sides, front back, around, etc. If I were to switch to LEDs those are the ones I'd have.
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
Richard-
Notice how I used the phrase "apparent size". That means how big a LAMP, not LIGHT appears to be when on. An LED "bulb replacement" can only big as big as the hole it is meant to fit through, or about the size of a quarter. So when on, all you see is light about the size of a quarter. The outer lense of the tail lamps provides only a small amount of light scattering, not enough to increase the apparent lamp size above a half-dollar.
LEDs have a narrow viewing angle, which basically eliminates the rear reflector from being used. Even if you've got a high-angle LED, say 120°, that is still a third of the angle of a regular bulb...in a single plane. Not only have you got only a third of the angle in a single plane, that angle is only present in planes in FRONT of the LED; a regular bulb has 360° of viewing angle in EVERY plane. Any direction you can think of, a regular bulb gets light there. Simply not the case with an LED.
Since a regular bulb produces light in every angle in every direction, the front lense is fully lit up by the bulb, not just as small area directly in front of the bulb. Then, to intensify the light, the rear reflector uses the light that exited behind the bulb and bounces it back forward, essentially doubling the brightness. In practice, it is actually more then double in certain areas due to the design of the reflectors and precise control of light beams. So the apparent size of a lamp with a conventional bulb the area of the reflector.
The "apparent size" of the lamp doesn't grow the further away you are. So lets say you are 1500 feet away, what is going to be more noticeable, a lamp the size of a half-dollar, or one the size of a softball? Softball, right? Think about this a bit further, how big is a traffic light lamp? It's something like a foot across. Reason being is simple, the further away you want something to be seen, the bigger you make it. A traffic light needs to be seen from, sometimes, a mile away. If the lamp was only the size of a quarter or softball, it would not be seen from such far away distances.
The benefits of LEDs are numerous compared to conventional bulbs: light up sooner, are brighter when viewed dead on straight, last longer, run cooler, etc, etc. However, when you try to retrofit a housing meant for a regular bulb with LEDs, unless you go all-out, the benefits of the LEDs are outweighed, in my mind, by the short comings. OEM LED lamps are much different in design and execution then bulb and reflector style lamps, but still, in some, you get off angle too much and the lamps appear off when they are on.
Notice how I used the phrase "apparent size". That means how big a LAMP, not LIGHT appears to be when on. An LED "bulb replacement" can only big as big as the hole it is meant to fit through, or about the size of a quarter. So when on, all you see is light about the size of a quarter. The outer lense of the tail lamps provides only a small amount of light scattering, not enough to increase the apparent lamp size above a half-dollar.
LEDs have a narrow viewing angle, which basically eliminates the rear reflector from being used. Even if you've got a high-angle LED, say 120°, that is still a third of the angle of a regular bulb...in a single plane. Not only have you got only a third of the angle in a single plane, that angle is only present in planes in FRONT of the LED; a regular bulb has 360° of viewing angle in EVERY plane. Any direction you can think of, a regular bulb gets light there. Simply not the case with an LED.
Since a regular bulb produces light in every angle in every direction, the front lense is fully lit up by the bulb, not just as small area directly in front of the bulb. Then, to intensify the light, the rear reflector uses the light that exited behind the bulb and bounces it back forward, essentially doubling the brightness. In practice, it is actually more then double in certain areas due to the design of the reflectors and precise control of light beams. So the apparent size of a lamp with a conventional bulb the area of the reflector.
The "apparent size" of the lamp doesn't grow the further away you are. So lets say you are 1500 feet away, what is going to be more noticeable, a lamp the size of a half-dollar, or one the size of a softball? Softball, right? Think about this a bit further, how big is a traffic light lamp? It's something like a foot across. Reason being is simple, the further away you want something to be seen, the bigger you make it. A traffic light needs to be seen from, sometimes, a mile away. If the lamp was only the size of a quarter or softball, it would not be seen from such far away distances.
The benefits of LEDs are numerous compared to conventional bulbs: light up sooner, are brighter when viewed dead on straight, last longer, run cooler, etc, etc. However, when you try to retrofit a housing meant for a regular bulb with LEDs, unless you go all-out, the benefits of the LEDs are outweighed, in my mind, by the short comings. OEM LED lamps are much different in design and execution then bulb and reflector style lamps, but still, in some, you get off angle too much and the lamps appear off when they are on.
Dingo
Well-Known Member
www.spiderlite.com 
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, Spider Lites. Those are much better then regular LED bulb replacements.
Tiger.
I'm sorry but I still disagree.
You continue to imply that LED's are inferior to conventional bulbs because they do not illuminate the entire reflector. All LED's have the ability to illuminate the reflector and most will do so nearly as bright as a conventional bulb. LED's do give out a lot more light out the sides than most people realize.
How much of the reflector is illuminated with an LED is also related to the shape of the reflector. It may be more desirable to have the reflector fully illuminated but the intese light from the LED is bright enough to be seen as well or better than a convetentional bulb, even at off angles, under normal traffic conditions.
I think you are trying to say that the more expensive LED's look better, but it's relly the desing of the bulb not the price that makes them look better. The cheaper ones will work just as effectively, but perhaps they don';t look as good.
...Rich
I'm sorry but I still disagree.
You continue to imply that LED's are inferior to conventional bulbs because they do not illuminate the entire reflector. All LED's have the ability to illuminate the reflector and most will do so nearly as bright as a conventional bulb. LED's do give out a lot more light out the sides than most people realize.
How much of the reflector is illuminated with an LED is also related to the shape of the reflector. It may be more desirable to have the reflector fully illuminated but the intese light from the LED is bright enough to be seen as well or better than a convetentional bulb, even at off angles, under normal traffic conditions.
I think you are trying to say that the more expensive LED's look better, but it's relly the desing of the bulb not the price that makes them look better. The cheaper ones will work just as effectively, but perhaps they don';t look as good.
...Rich
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
Richard-
Show me a typical, auto-parts store bought LED bulb replacement installed and lighting up a reflector. Then show me a typical LED bulb replacement lighting up a reflector in a capacity anywhere close to that of a regular bulb. 'Cause I can show you plenty of LEDs that don't.
I think you're a bit confused as to exactly how and why LEDs work, and how they work in a typical housing.
If you'll notice, OEM LED tail lamps lack reflectors behind the LED.....why is that?
Just a bit of reading for you-
from <a href="http://www.superbrightleds.com/carbulb-notes.htm" target="top">www.superbrightleds.com</a>:
"Brightness of LED Car Bulbs
LED bulbs are generally not as bright as standard incandescent bulbs, they have many advantages over filament bulbs (longer life, faster on/off times, lower power consumption, more vivid colors) but brightness is not one of them.
They are generally not as bright but some of them with large numbers of LEDs, will appear brighter than filament bulbs.
As an exception, our new 3 Watt Luxeon LED car bulbs are as bright or brighter than most standard filament car bulbs.
The light is distributed differently so they can appear brighter in some applications and not as bright in others, it depends on the size and shape of the bulb housing and reflector.
Most LED bulbs emit light like a flashlight, all out the end. Regular filament bulbs emit light from the end and all sides, so they will be better suited for some lighting applications than LED bulbs.
This is the same reason why we do not rate LED car bulbs in lumens or watts, they would be a deceptively low numbers because the light is measured from all sides and the end on standard filament bulbs but only from the end on LED bulbs"
Show me a typical, auto-parts store bought LED bulb replacement installed and lighting up a reflector. Then show me a typical LED bulb replacement lighting up a reflector in a capacity anywhere close to that of a regular bulb. 'Cause I can show you plenty of LEDs that don't.
I think you're a bit confused as to exactly how and why LEDs work, and how they work in a typical housing.
If you'll notice, OEM LED tail lamps lack reflectors behind the LED.....why is that?
Just a bit of reading for you-
from <a href="http://www.superbrightleds.com/carbulb-notes.htm" target="top">www.superbrightleds.com</a>:
"Brightness of LED Car Bulbs
LED bulbs are generally not as bright as standard incandescent bulbs, they have many advantages over filament bulbs (longer life, faster on/off times, lower power consumption, more vivid colors) but brightness is not one of them.
They are generally not as bright but some of them with large numbers of LEDs, will appear brighter than filament bulbs.
As an exception, our new 3 Watt Luxeon LED car bulbs are as bright or brighter than most standard filament car bulbs.
The light is distributed differently so they can appear brighter in some applications and not as bright in others, it depends on the size and shape of the bulb housing and reflector.
Most LED bulbs emit light like a flashlight, all out the end. Regular filament bulbs emit light from the end and all sides, so they will be better suited for some lighting applications than LED bulbs.
This is the same reason why we do not rate LED car bulbs in lumens or watts, they would be a deceptively low numbers because the light is measured from all sides and the end on standard filament bulbs but only from the end on LED bulbs"
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Tiger,
Actually I do know quite a bit about LEDs. I have been tinkering with them for many years and have been interest in their improvements over the years.
Again you are equating brightness and visibility to simply illuminating the entire reflector. That would mean vehicles with larger reflectors are more visible which is not true. There many different sized taillights and headlights on vehicles today and their lights are equally visible.
Many vehicles like Hondas that have LED taillights have an array of LEDs with very small or no reflectors. Thes lights are intensely bright and as visible as and a bulb and reflector. That's because the LEDs have a built in lens much like a Projector Beam headlight. It is that lens that disperses the light for a wider viewing angle.
The real problem with LED replacements for conventional bulbs is that the bulb depends on the reflector to bounce the light out towards the lens which illuminates the entire reflector with a fairly even light except for the center of the bulb which is brighter.
The looks of a fully illuminated reflector is more pleasing than a quarter size bright light. Visibility is similar and probably favors the LEDs.
You are probably correct that the more expensive LED replacement bulbs will have LEDs around it's circumfrence to illuminate the reflector, and that will make the light appear larger. Do the cheap ones give off the sam amount of light as the more expensive?? I don't know becaus you have to look at the specs for the LEDs not the price of the LED's The narrower the angle the more light is concentrated through the lens. The wider the lens angle the less intese the light appears.
...Rich
Actually I do know quite a bit about LEDs. I have been tinkering with them for many years and have been interest in their improvements over the years.
Again you are equating brightness and visibility to simply illuminating the entire reflector. That would mean vehicles with larger reflectors are more visible which is not true. There many different sized taillights and headlights on vehicles today and their lights are equally visible.
Many vehicles like Hondas that have LED taillights have an array of LEDs with very small or no reflectors. Thes lights are intensely bright and as visible as and a bulb and reflector. That's because the LEDs have a built in lens much like a Projector Beam headlight. It is that lens that disperses the light for a wider viewing angle.
The real problem with LED replacements for conventional bulbs is that the bulb depends on the reflector to bounce the light out towards the lens which illuminates the entire reflector with a fairly even light except for the center of the bulb which is brighter.
The looks of a fully illuminated reflector is more pleasing than a quarter size bright light. Visibility is similar and probably favors the LEDs.
You are probably correct that the more expensive LED replacement bulbs will have LEDs around it's circumfrence to illuminate the reflector, and that will make the light appear larger. Do the cheap ones give off the sam amount of light as the more expensive?? I don't know becaus you have to look at the specs for the LEDs not the price of the LED's The narrower the angle the more light is concentrated through the lens. The wider the lens angle the less intese the light appears.
...Rich
Dallas Starr
Well-Known Member
so what your trying to say is that these LED's arent bright enough?
wow! Sorry but this is waaaay brighter then the stock 3rd brake light
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wow! Sorry but this is waaaay brighter then the stock 3rd brake light
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