New round of cuts

[Bill Ellis]

sadly enough, all the pension plans and social security were designed and implemented during a time when few people lived very long after retirement. Fact was, back then, that retirement cost wasn't a big deal. Those same plans now are bankrupting the companies that are stuck with them. So, now we see them filing for bankruptcy and getting court permission to transfer pensions to the feds. It was a long-term Ponzi scheme that is now reaching it's limits...not enough new blood to pay for the old. It's gonna get rough in the next 10 years.

 

[Frank Marano]

i just read they are going to offer buy outs to the 75,000 union workers...



msnbc.com has it as breaking news on their website

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Bill-E, I agree with you regarding the pension plans, but for social security, I have to disagree and I do so because they are different animals.



Social security was never meant to be a retirement program. It was primarily meant as a widows & orphans, disability, and keep the elderly from starving program...and it is and should be funded quite well for that purpose; and was funded even better before it was raided by Congress.



Return Social Security back to what it should be...a "widows & orphans, disability, and keep the elderly from starving program", and make people figure out how to save for their own retirement.



Healthcare costs are the biggest, real unknown and wild-card for corporate pension plans. Realizing personal rate of returns for monies paid in that are reasonable and basing payouts on that is rather straightforward and without risk. It's the variation of rising healthcare costs and, yes, the longevity factor which is hard to predict. And when not predicted well, yes, pension programs become insolvent. It doesn't help that many companies "dipped into" their pension programs until the govt stepped in and passed legislation.



Let's not forget that SS isn't meant for retirement.



TJR

 

[Keith Lucas]

The Board of Directors of Ford are currently meeting in an attempt to find a solution to stop the dollar bleeding and the projected loss of nine billion dollars for this year.

Had they read a recent email; I sent to FoMoCo, they could have saved a lot of time and expense.

I have an 02 Trac that I am attempting to trade for a fully loaded 07 Trac, and will pay the difference in cash.

The first dealer I went to, found the Trac I wanted and said they would dealer trade for it. After dancing me around for over a month; I am still waiting for them to provide me with the final purchase price of the new vehicle.

This is a new dealership in this area and I would have thought would be quite anxious for business.

The second dealership I went to, the sales person said he would locate a vehicle for me and call me first thing the next morning; that was almost two weeks ago and still no call.

Being quite frustrated; I decided that I would visit the Lincoln dealer, where I take my wife's LS for service.

The sales person was quite helpful as I looked at an 06 Mark LT, but I told him that I might pay some cash and use Ford's money with the 0% interest rate. I had a question about that, and he said the finance manager was off that day, but that he would call first thing the next morning.

Guess what, over a week and no call.

I sent all three dealerships and FoMoCo, emails stating my unhappiness with their customer service. Guess what, no replies to my emails from any of them.

Ford, a simple solution, fix your customer service issues.

 

[WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs]

Finanace Manager was off that day? And, no one else in the Finance dept could answer the question? WTF!!! Blue Oval Certified is a joke of a program!

 

[2]

Ranger 185, if you walk into a dealership up here and they get your phone number they won't stop calling you to see if you are still interested. Sorry to hear about your poor service experiances.

 

[Gerald Pierce]

They had a Focus there for 22,600.00. Almost 23K for a Focus, are you freaking kidding me.

DW's ZX5 out the door with all bells and whistles (no sunroof/no leather -- is that even an option on a Focus?) was ~17k. 23k is insane.



Now, I just had it in for the first oil change - 3780 miles. They also had to repair the rear seat, the cloth is pulling away from the trim ring around the center rear seatbelt. They did some half -a$$ repair -- re-tuck and glue, and it will last about a week until someone sits in the seat again. Then we'll be back for a new seat cover/new seat all together. Son had his 06 ranger in the shop 3 times before 8k for CEL. Bad O2 sensors, bad Computer. Quality does not seem to be their priority recently, that's for sure. I've been a Ford Fan for a long time, but I am not feeling to faithful at the moment. I'll give them a chance to regroup, since I am not looking for another vehicle until next summer (focus goes to DD going off to college and DW gets a new vehicle), so we'll see what happens. I won't let a little thing turn me completely off, but with all the issues we have seen lately (tranny on ST, timing chain rattle, etc) and my own first impressions on these 2 new vehicles, I am starting to think about changing up teams.



To give credit, I have a 93 Mustang, a 99 sable, an 01 ST, an 06 ranger, and an 06 Focus. Only issue really has been the tranny on the Sable at ~65k. They replaced it under warranty. Now it needs a heater core (TSB on this, but they say I neglected it so I have to pay). I'll donate the car first simply due to the cost vs worth. Mustang needed a radiator and a MAF at 140k. Also needs a heater core, I think -- it was bought used and coolant was nasty when I bought it (thus the new radiator). ST - no issues. Also had a 95 E150 -- no issues except cosmetic stuff with the conversion package and a bad steering box at 40k.



I did see a commercial making a 5 year warranty standard on 07's, IIRC, but they need to make it so that I really don't need it in the first place.



Gerry

 

[Gavin Allan]

re: New round of cuts by Caymen,9/14/2006 12:22 CT



My prediction may be coming true. Sport Trac new design fails.



Tom

Ford bit the big one by making the new SportTrac an overbloated gas-guzzler. It overlaps way too much with the F-150 SuperCrew. Ford needs a vehicle the size of the Escape that has a great design, great performance, great reliability, and gets 25-35 MPG.

 

[Trevor Yeomans]

though the 4dr ranger does look a little blah, i would definitely get one since they have an available 3.0L International diesel engine (NICE!). as far as the company goes, i think they have a long way to go to prove their vehicles are reliable. most everyone i know would not buy a ford with over 80,000 miles on it. can you really blame them? trannys slippin at 60k, ignition coils bad at 50k, etc. while toyotas and hondas with over 120k are still running like champs. as soon as my warranty's up, i'll be looking for a new vehicle, and if its another ford, it'd better have a warranty. optional extended warranty.... you betcha.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Would anyone be interested in buying something like this?

Skoda Concept Pickup



or this?

Ford Ranger Highlander Concept

 

[Tom Schindler]

Can Ford produce a car in the US, made in the US, and sell it in the US for a price of $11K...and make money?



I ask because I have heard quotes that say on-average, something like $2,500 of the cost of a domestic-made car goes to pay pensions and benefits of retired company employees.

I think they can. They can afford to pay the CEO millions on top of millions of dollars.



I don't agree with making the union employees be responsible for the companies screw-up from NOT funding the pension accounts properly.



Vehicles like the Ford Ka are already designed, engineered, and built. Sure the USA has some stricter crash testes and stuff, but it wouldn't cost as much to convert a car to US specs then to design a new one from the ground up.



Ford biggest mistake was cutting back on the car lines. At one time, they had a full line of cars. Festiva, Escort, Tempo, Taurus, and Crown Vic. Before the Fusion came out, they only had the Focus, Taurus, and Crown Vic. Not everyone wanted a Taurus or Focus. The Fusion is what Ford needed, but they need to do more. Buld a car smaller then a Focus that gets good gas mileage. If they have to price a Ka higher then 11K, they could. That stupid looking Yaris from Toyota sells for $13K.



Tom

 

[Mike Wilson]

This should have been our new "Tracs!!!!

(Minus all of the LED's!) Only thing I didn't like!

 

[Mike Wilson]

And this should be the new Malibu or Impala, for G.M.

(God, G.M., why aren't you listening!!!!!!!!!).

 

[Travis Munday]

The Aussies get all the fun...not only do they get some of the best styled cars on the planet, they get stoutly built cars. And they dont put speed limiters on most every model....

 

[Todd Cloutier]

But, Americans don't want fun, exciting cars



I don't know why Ford and GM think that their cars have to be bland and boring. Ford has a couple of interesting cars in the Mustang and Fusion. GM really doesn't have much at all, the Impala is particularly boring. Chrysler at least is doing something interesting with their styling.



So, how about it, Ford and GM? Let's see some interesting and exciting new product.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Hey-- I'll take a Ford Ranger Highlander! That looks COOL!



I'm with Caymen-- the CEO makes plenty of money, as do the other top eschelons. Why should they get paid so well, especially when the company has been going downhill and losing business for so many years?



Union members aren't responsible for designing, engineering, and pricing the product, so don't take it out on them. Ford management should have forecasted its costs regarding pensions, etc., and this should all be set aside and taken care of.



Todd makes good points too. Really, what is the difference between a Taurus and the 500? They look the same and are about the same size/quality/design. Also, there isn't much difference between the Focus and the Taurus either. Now all the trucks and SUVs look the same too--What's up with that?



Ford shouldn't have killed the Thunderbird or Cougar. Ranger has needed a redesign and updating for ten years. Product design staff must have all been asleep.



Remember the EXP? Fun to drive cheap transportation with a bit of style (maybe a bit weird). Ford cars and trucks are so BORING.



Why keep Mercury? Duplication of more boring vehicles and more parts/dealers/service departments. Get rid of Mercury or fold it into Ford.



Sales departments need a HUGE enema. I would buy a new vehicle today if the sales process were quicker and less hassle. To buy a car these days, I have to spend a whole day being lied-to, jerked around, having to wait, getting forms typed, being sold a vehicle I don't want (instead of finding the one I want in another dealer's inventory). Then I have to be put under high pressure for paint sealants, extended warranties, etc. Sales people do not return calls or E-mails.



Service Departments are better than they used to be, but still need more training in honesty and product knowlege.



I don't feel too sorry for Ford-- the answers are obvious and have been well-know for years, but they don't seem to fix anything.

 

[WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs]

Gavin good feedback. I tried buying a new vehicle over the phone and they wouldn't deal with me at all. I've purchased an M3 and SLK Benz over the phone. With Ford, come on in lets deal spend a few hours with us dickering with the price. Spend another hour with the finance person. BS! M3 called and told them what I wanted. Dropped off the down payment check. 4 weeks car arrives all the paper work is already to be signed when we picked the car up. I spent less than 40 mins in the dealership total!



Ford are you listening? Get you freakin act together! Train the dealers correctly. Build cars WE, I repeat WE want. I will NOT purchase a Ford again until the models are more appealing. And, the dealers charging over 30K extra for the Shelby 500? What a joke. Other cars in that price range are far more superior than that car!

 

[TomT]

Chrysler has really been the only US company that's been innovative with their designs. To bad they are built so crappy.

 

[2]

SST- fully agree.The GF and I just purchased a new Nissan for her. We were in the dealership for a total of 30 minutes. That included going in to discuss what we wanted, completing the order and picking it up. The test drive was an additional 30 minutes and they let us go by ourselves. Ford won't let me test drive any vehicle by myself. I always have a salesman nattering in my ear when I am test driving trucks, then like you say, I have to sit there for an hour or more while we go back and forth on price, and then another hour with the finance guy.



TomT - Is Chrysler still considered a US company at this point?

 

[Dave Johnson]

I have been lurking at MySportTrac for several months, just trying to see what people thought.



I've only owned 2 brand-new cars in my life. One was a fully-loaded 85 Mustang GT, and the other was a fully-loaded 98 Mercury Sable. I still drive the Sable. 107K and counting.



A couple of years ago, my neighbor bought a new 04 ST. At first I thought it was a ridiculous truck wanna-be. I looked at it a little further, and realized that a nice comfy well-appointed 5 passenger car with a bed really struck me as something I wanted. I was looking for something modest that could haul clients and/or employee to lunche during the week, and then 2x4's during the weekend (I'm a closet-case carpenter wanna-be).



My bro bought a new Exploder about a year ago, and every time I climbed into it, I thought "This is really nice!". Then, my friend bought a new Acura RL. When I first slid into it, I realized that "This thing redefines 'really nice'". If only Ford could build something that screamed "Fit and Finish... I Am Quality" like this...



Now granted, the RL is just an Accord on acid. My point being, that it's a fricking Accord on Acid! It didn't feel like your typical Lincoln approach of just putting more chrome and dials into a Ford. This car was really different. My bro's Exploder? Well, it's an Eddie Bauer, but I sure didn't get the same feeling.



Disapointing? Yeah. But I'll put up with marginally lower expectations if I'm "Buying American". Call me a homer, but I'd rather buy a car built by a Tom or a John, than I would by a Pedro or a Yee. I'm sure there is some retard out there that is calling me a racist. I'm just into taking care of my own first is all.



In spite of all of that, I'm all set for buying an ST over a Ridgeline. Until I remember having to deal with the dealers. Both of my experiences (with two different dealerships) have been nothing but disappointing.



I ordered the 85 fully-loaded Mustang, because I wanted the last of the carborated 302's. Fuel injection wasn't an American engineering forte at the time, so I wanted what I considered the last of the "Boss" 302's. I ended up waiting 4 months to find out from the dealer that it wasn't ever going to be built. The plant stopped production to gear up for the 06 FI-model. Which wouldn't be delivered for another 3-4 months. My dealer sat on my money and lied to me thru the whole process. The dealer ended up finding a lesser equipped one in a diferent color. I was young and stupid, so I bought it.



I noticed the cowl shake while I was driving it off the lot. I kept finding random plastic pieces and screws all over the place that I never could identify. The gas-powered hinges for the hatch gave up after 4 months. It got worse. Much worse. I sold it at 30k.



Much later, the Sable was a different experience. The salesguy I was dealing with was a very laid back, no-nonsence guy. Unfortunately, he was fired midway through the deal. I ended up witha snot-nosed punk (owner's kid?), who tried to sell me everything from Scotchguard for the leather seats, to the extended warranty. I asked him if he thought the car was so unreliable that I would actually needed the extended warranty. He sputtered, I declined. End of story. In spite of his badgering I bought the car. I'm glad I did because it's been a really good reliable ride. It's time she should be handed off to some high-school kid though...



...So now I'm faced with the decision of shelling out a bunch of hard cash for something I like (and frankly, feel like I need), but knowing it's dosen't have the quality it should or could have, and realizing that the dealer network is both slipshod and now desperate. I'm feeling like I'm about to get screwed. Why bother?



I want Ford to succeed, but from personal experience I can't see how they are going to.



Can someone please give me some good words?







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