Phelps -- Greatest Athlete?

[Andy Chase]

Mookie, I agree. You can compare wins now vs. back in the day, but technology changes so much its hard to decifer if the athlete is that much better or if its technology making the difference. Would Tiger woods hit 300+ yard drives with a wooden driver? Probably not. Phelps is the best swimmer now, but there is now way of easily comparing Spitz and him now since Spitz is older and not in his prime. Maybe if one had a time machine than you could compare...Just like Tiger and Arnold Palmer would be a good match up, if they both were in their prime.

 

[TrainTrac]

I think you have to put this in the proper context. By that I mean that I think it could be better stated that Michael Phelps is the greatest athlete of his generation, or his time. Just as Jim Thorpe was the greatest of his generation, or his time. Technological or rules/regulation changes often allow an athlete to achieve greater results than a predecessor.



If Olympic records were kept all the way back to the first games in Greece, would someone have denigrated Jim Thorpe's achievements because of the advances in technology between his time and ancient Greece?



There was a similar debate in 1961 when Roger Maris broke the Babe's single season HR record, because of the difference in the number of games per season. But the real reason there was so much of an uproar was probably because of the "blasphemy" of Maris' breaking of Babe Ruth's record. The idiotic decision by the then MLB commissioner of putting an asterisk beside Maris' record caused an aura of skepticism associated with this record until Mark McGwire broke it in '98. (That's a whole other "controversy"!)



Just celebrate Phelps' achievements, knowing that once again, an American is the best in the world!

 

[Kevin Palmer]

On paper, I could see where he could be termed the greatest athlete.



It is a fact that he either is now, or will be the most decorated in the form of Gold medals as well potentially set the most new records.



However, it is one sport and as mentioned above most will never have the opportunities that he has in regards to being able to compete. By that, there is something like 20 potential swimming competitions as compared to maybe 3 or 5 biking competitions. There is one Softball competition, maybe 2 air rifle competitions, etc etc etc.



I think a better judge of a "greatest athlete" would be someone that participate in various competitions. That would be a true test of their ability.



Is he a great swimmer???? Yes, the gold speaks loudly of that.



I am glad he swims for the USA and not another country...

 

[Andy Chase]

I'm not saying he is or isn't the greatest ever, but regardless of how many chances of winning medals, he is still setting records just about everytime he swims. Thats more amazing than winning a gold medal. Tiger Woods wins events but he doesn't break the course record everytime he plays. Yes he has at some, but probably not as many as Phelps will have.

 

[Jeffrey Travis]

ath·lete [ath-leet]

–noun a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise, or game requiring physical skill.



There is NO way to state who is the greatest athlete - it is not apples to apples. Swimming vs baseball vs track vs etc vs etc



There has to be common ground other than just being an athlete. You can call someone the greatest Olympian (based upon medals earned) or the greatest swimmer, greatest baseball player, etc but the common ground is missing to link sports.



Tiger, he is an athletic golfer, as opposed to some of those that need a 'bro' or 'manzere'. He had transformed the sport as well, many do what it takes to try to keep up.



Some will say baseball is not an athletic sport BUT take in account the toll it can take on a body. 162 games a year plus travel. Sure games are only about 3 hours a day but add in pre-game & post game activities, it is a full day of work. If you are a pitcher you get 20-35 or so starts per year - throwing >100 pitches. It takes a toll on the whole body. Yes you can look like David Wells but there is an inner athlete there somewhere. As far as hitting a baseball that can vary from 60-103 mph, bending, dipping, curving, splitting - it is THE most difficult skill to master in sports. Hence why you can fail 7 out of 10 times and be paid millions, be an All-Star and called one of the best ever.



Many go for multi-sport stars and believe that is what could make them the best ever. Cannot tell as some who went down one path and stayed there never showed what they could do in another sport.



Michael Jordan learned that baseball was not as easy as he thought (or was he on hiatus from the NBA because David Stern told him to take a few years off?)



Danny Ainge baseball/hoop - better career in hoop



Bo Jackson - serious talent is too sports - injury took him down to early



Dave Winfield - drafted in 3 if not 4 pro sports



Jeffrey Alan Samardzija - football at ND, gave it up to play baseball, now closing for the Cubs



Charlie Ward - football/hoop



Bob Hayes - football/track



Deion Sanders - football/baseball & you can say track, he ran in college



.......that's probably enough about nothing........

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I see no reason to trivialize what Phelps has done. Comparisons will always be made.



If your criteria is total career gold medals then he is the best Olympian to-date. Soon he will (probably) have the most golds won during a single Olympics.



As Andy said, he is doing all this and breaking Olympic records in the process.



You have to give the guy some serious kudos.



TJR

 

[TomT]

Five facts about Michael Phelps' five gold medals:



1) If Michael Phelps were a country (Phelpsylvania, perhaps), he'd be tied for third overall in gold medals won.



2) In the total medal count, Phelps would be tied for 12th overall with the Netherlands.



3) India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria, Egypt, Mexico and Bangladesh (appx. combined population = 2.1 billion) have earned a total of four Olympic medals in Beijing. Phelps (appx. population = 1) has five.



4) Phelps has won five of the eight gold medals awarded in the men's swimming competition.



5) Excluding the United States and Australia, the rest of the world has earned a total of five golds in the men's and women's swimming competition. Phelps -- well, you get the picture.

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Tom,,,

Fantastic comparison...



Really brings it home.

 

[Bill V]

TomT, interesting comparison, but like all numbers, they can be spun however you want. Here's a way to spin his accomplishments completely the other way when doing a "greatest olympic athlete" comparison...



Olympic gold medals awarded in men's swimming from 2004 to 2008 (so far)--26

Gold medals won by Phelps in that span--11

Percentage--42.3%

If he wins the rest of the golds in which he's competing, he'll still have won only 14 of 33 possible golds in his sport, for 42.4%.



By comparison--



Gold medals awarded in softball from 1996 to 2008 (so far)--3

Gold medals won by Lisa Fernandez in that span--3

Percentage--100%

If she wins the gold this year, she'll still be at 100%. In fact, because softball was first added to the Olympics in 1996, and will no longer be played there after this year, a win by her and her US team will mean that she will have won every Olympic gold medal in her sport in history--past, present, and future



So if you want to compare stats, well, there is no comparison--42.4% over two Olympiads vs. 100% over all history.



Don't get me wrong--I'm not at all saying that Fernandez is a better athlete than Phelps. I'm just saying that, depending on your perspective, any statistical analysis like yours or mine becomes meaningless...

 

[TomT]

Who's Lisa Fernandez?

 

[Jacob Dryer]

 

[Kevin Palmer]

JD,,,

Nice,,, LOL

 

[Bill V]

Phelps lends a new spin to the phrase "Breakfast of Champions" by starting off his day by eating three fried-egg sandwiches loaded with cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise.

According to JDBoxes' cartoon, it sounds like those sandwiches aren't the only eggs he's eating... :wub:

 

[Woppy V]

LOL JD THAT IS HILARIOUS!!

 

[Rick Kent]

Great Athlete, without a doubt. Most decorated Olympian, absolutely.



Greatest athlete ever, not a chance.



Lets not forget that some of "his" gold medals have been won during team relays.....

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Fkent484 says:

Lets not forget that some of "his" gold medals have been won during team relays.....

True. But in how many of those relays was Phelps swimming the last leg and went off the blocks with his team NOT in first and then closed the gap to win? More than one, I suspect.



As I said before, his talent and accomplishments at this point seem to be clearly unparalleled. Because of that I am not sure why the animosity, other than the fact that I know for many they simply don't see swimming as a real sport (even if they won't come right out and say it).



TJR

 

[Les]

Lets not forget that some of "his" gold medals have been won during team relays.....

Your point being ???



Swimming, like gymnastics, forces or allows, the better athletes to cross-over from individual events to team events. This shows flexibility and the ability of the athlete to perform under different conditions.

As I said before, his talent and accomplishments at this point seem to be clearly unparalleled. Because of that I am not sure why the animosity, other than the fact that I know for many they simply don't see swimming as a real sport (even if they won't come right out and say it).

I agree TJR, what is everone's problem ??? Regardless of the sport, these athletes spent upwards of a third of their lives training to be there. Few, if any of us, have been that dedicated to anything !!!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Les said:

Few, if any of us, have been that dedicated to anything !!!

Correct.



Until we have olympic events for:



- Sport Trac Modding



- Toyota Hating



- Ford apologizing



- Union supporting (or bashing)



- Political ranting



- ST transmission replacing



...then I don't see many here getting any gold!



TJR

 

[Bill V]

Les and TJR, the "animosity" has nothing to do with Phelps, or his accomplishments, or opinions on the sport of swimming. It only has to do with people (on both sides of the argument) discussing where his place belongs in the annals of all-time great sports champions. And in order to be considered for that level of accolades, that level of scrutiny needs to be made.



It's kind of like when the Baseball Writers of America elect new members to the Baseball Hall of Fame. Any players under such consideration have had great accomplishments in their careers. But now, the writers are trying to decide whether they truly belong at that very top pinnacle. And to do that, they really need to nitpick each player's career and accomplishments. It doesn't matter that none of the writers have ever had any significant accomplishments in baseball themselves. And their application of such scrutiny doesn't mean that they disrespect those players' accomplishments, or have anything against the sport of baseball itself. It's simply the process that needs to occur to sort things out.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Bill V,



I just wish people would tone down the cross-era and cross-sports comparisons. I see nothing productive in them.



Comparing Michael Phelps to Michael Jordon, or Tiger Woods to Ben Hogan (examples of "cross sports" comparison, and "cross era" comparisons) can't really be done. Sports are different and time changes things within a sport.



Yeah, I get that when claims are made that Phelps is the "Greatest Athlete of All Time" that such comparisons are bound to happen.



But frankly, except for some on this site, I haven't been hearing Phelps called these things, so I don't understand the hornet's nest stirring.



TJR