The Law is the Law!

[Tom Schindler]

TJR,



You are not understanding what i said, Christians are NOT bound to the laws placed on the Jews. Things such as washing your hands up to you elbow, contacting the high priest to atone your sins, and not eating pork are under the Jewish law. Your quote is under Jewish law.



Jesus even showed the Jewish leaders the wrongs of their ways. if you feed your livestock on the sabbith, are you working? If you are a farmer and have livestock, it is unfair to the animals to make them go hungry on the sabbath.



Jesus removed these rules from us and became our connection to God. That is why prayers are asked in Jesus' name.



During the early times, man was required to perform a burnt offering of his best livestock he had to atone his sins. You do that today and you get arrested for cruelity to animals.



Your argument holds no water since Christians are not bound to those laws.





Tom

 

[Gavin Allan]

Tom's right. Although Jews may be prohibited from being with a woman when she is "unclean", Christians are free to pull out a towel and have at it! :bwahaha:

 

[Bill V]

Tom, I don't think you're getting my point. You say to rely on what the Bible tells us, and not what the Church tells us.



But who do you think it was who put together the Bible?



I fully realize that the different books of the Bible had different authors, most of whom were not affiliated with the "Church" per se at the time they wrote those books. But it was the Church who went through all those writings, and determined which ones are in, which ones are out, which ones are partially in (and in that case, which sections are in or not), etc. The Church effectively wrote (or at least assembled) the Bible. As such, when you follow Christ's teachings based on the Bible, you're actually following the Church's interpretations of Christ's teachings. You can't simultaneously follow the teachings of a book assembled by the Church, and disregard the teachings of the Church. It's a logical contradiction.

There are many churches out there that support Polygamy, homosexuality, pre-marital sex, no sex during marriage, etc. These are churches that wear the Christian name. Christ decides that this one church should allow open homosexuality while the other one strictly forbids it?

Sounds like your making statements in support of atheism, or at least agnosticism... :grin::haveabeer:

 

[Gavin Allan]

BTW: I have the Bible installed on my BlackBerry, and I am on my 4th update. What are they updating the Bible for?

 

[Bill V]

BTW: I have the Bible installed on my BlackBerry, and I am on my 4th update. What are they updating the Bible for?

Are the new versions backwards-compatible?

 

[Gavin Allan]

I doubt it. Once born-again, I doubt that a person can go back without a lot of trouble.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Cayman,



I understood you.



Still! Consider this. Jesus is God, and the holy spirit. They are one yet three. The good book is the word of God, therefore the word of Jesus as well. The OT has God's commands. You seem to say that most no longer apply to Christians. You are picking and choosing which ones to follow. Jesus didn't denounce everything in the OT through his sermons on the mount. Christianity in all it's varied forms picks and chooses from the Bible it's dogma and then it's followers pick and choose from there.



That very fact is why I have stated that using as an argument that the Bible or Jesus does or doesn't command something is rather moot.



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

Jesus came, fulfilled the OT. Now we are under the NT. Although we need to continue to operate under His ONE COMMAND, we are not bound by the law in the old Testament. Doesn't mean everything is the OT is bad--just means we evaluate what is there based on His ONE COMMAND and use His ONE COMMAND to guide our behavior. However, the OT does not apply anymore.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Gavin,



That's as clear as mud.



I know several Christians that follow much of the OT. Some claim that the OT gives evidence of a new Earth that is only about 6000 years old. For them, much of the OT is taken literally and followed and other parts ignored.



The OT and The NT their various messages and commands mean and are followed differently by different Christian sects.



who is to say who is right and who is wrong?



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

Guess we'll find out soon enough. I am figuring on finding out in about 30 more years.

 

[Tom Schindler]

I won't be commenting as much for the next few days. On vacation with the wife. Currently in Rock Hill, SC and heading south.

You are picking and choosing which ones to follow.

I am? Since when did this happen. I don't follow any of the laws in the OT. I try to live by the commandment Jesus gave me.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



When I said "you" I didn't mean to for you to take it personally. Sorry. Your admission that you don't follow anything in the OT makes my point that you like most all Christians pick and choose what you wish to follow from the Bible. Again, I am not simply talking about the red letter passages.



When Jesus said: "It has been said that ____, but now I tell you that ____" about the various laws and teachings of the pharisies you seem to be taking that to mean that all of the OT is null and void (that's my interpretation of what you are saying). That's fine if you think that. I have no issue with that. I'm not saying you are right or wrong. I'm just showing you how that is picking and choosing what to follow from God's instruction...the entire Bible is his word, right?



To many Christians the entire Bible is an instruction manual, not just the NT gospels. Others just take guidance from the NT. Still others (like myself) consider most of it myth, parable and assembled by man to serve the purposes of the Church and due to that put them most weight in the one, simple command (love they neighbor).



The red letters are the ones most seem to follow as instruction, I'll grant you that. But, supposedly, it is all the word of God. Jesus SAID what is in red. But God spoke to men to get all the other words in that book. Since Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit all in one, well, the entire thing can be viewed as his (x3) command.



TJR