Why do you hate the competition?

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Josh Langel

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We all have our favorite vehicle manufacturer.



I still like Ford, but I drive Toyota.



So, here's a question for everyone:



<B>Why do you hate the competion?</b>



I've heard a lot of members speak of other manufacturers in really terrible ways, but I don't hear a real reason why. I hardly ever hear a truth, but some like to just be bias and say outrageous things.



So, if you dislike Nissan, Toyota, Chevy, Dodge, ect... why?



Set the record straight!!!! :)
 
I was like that against Ford. It was because my family had always owned GM vehicles. I would do it to raz a friend of mine when we were growing up. Not because I knew much about either company. Just because it was fun. But it stuck. It was hard for me to go and even look at the ST because in the back of my head I didn't like Fords. No particular reason, just didn't.I have owned a '87 pontiac Grand Am, '90 Barretta GTZ (wicked fast), '89 Toyota Pick-up, '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee (POS), and now a '03 ST and '05 Mountaineer. My friend when I bought the ST really questioned me hard on it and I told him that it was the vehicle that meeted my needs at the time. I love it!! I will probably stick with Ford because of thier car designs until something else catches my eye. which will be hard since the new design of the ST has me hooked.;)
 
Life's too short to HATE anything.



I haven't personally met a person I would say I HATE, yet (maybe I am like Will Rogers), and likewise wasting energy on "hating" an inanimate object seems, well, childish.



With that said, I do have my preferences. For example, I prefer not to purchase GM products due to very poor reliability and service I have experienced.



Our environment and our experiences program our minds in the form our opinions and our biases.



TJR





 
I wont buyGM products, mostly chevys, because I have watched family members, friends and workmates, fix and repair them daily. Mostly after they were 3 yrs old...

Odd thing is one workmate swore by his chevys, despite the fact I was always taking him to the parts store or giving him rides to work..but he would go out and buy another chevy product and the breakdown cycle would start all over again...
 
I don't really hate any cars, I just buy what I like. Lately that's been Fords. My work van is a Chevy and my parents both drive Cadillacs with few if any problems. Never cared for Chrysler products though, just the styling and those godawful noisey starters they had back in the day I guess. I'm not much on imports although these days that line is kinda blurry.
 
I don't hate the competition, hell competition is good. If there was no competition, we'd still be driving Pinto's and Vegas.... ugh!



I try to buy the least trouble-prone vehicles, and in my own personal experience, those have been Mazdas and Toyotas.
 
I have owned both Chevy and Dodge (two each) and they all ended poorly. I will only buy American so that leaves Ford. So far, I have been very happy with the Blue Oval and will be a customer for life.



Ape Out.
 
I've tried to keep my vehicle choices close to home (U.S.). So far I can only stay in the Ford family. I've had two Chevrolet cars. I still own one, barely. The other car I only had for 2 years. I can't look at Chevy's without knowing the problems I've had. Dodge is too expensive for me. So I don't even bother in the dealerships. I get in trouble in the Ford dealerships lurking for Sport Tracs. I own a Hyundai, but that was because of the warranty and price. I don't really care for the prices and looks of the other imports. I don't hate any automakers. I guess my 1# disliked automaker is VW. I don't know why, but I can't stand to look at the vehicles.
 
I hate Chevrolets, not because they are junk, but it goes back to the Ford vs. Chevy game me and my friends played growing up.



Dodge, they have some nice designed cars, but when I look under the hood everything is stupid.



Imports. That is a big one fore me.



I guess it goes back to when imports first came into the US in large numbers. They were junk. They rusted out within a very short time. It was OK though. If it were a Ford, Chrysler, or GM, people would have cried foul.



When Ford had the first Escort come out, they had a problem that when the timing belts broke, the head was trashed. Ford learned from thier mistake and they do not, as far as I know, make an interference engine. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mitsubishi all still build interference engines. The timing belts breaks, you are screwed. The same with VW's. When it happened with a Ford, people screamed bloody murder. If it happens in a Honda, it is no big deal.



Longevity. On a regular basis I see the "junk" American cars from the 80's still on the road. I am lucky to see one import 20 year old on the road. I spend 9 years on the road traveling for business and I have driven in many different places in many parts of the country. I see more cars from the 80's that are domestic then I have seen imports no matter where I was. From Maine to Florida. Almost all the states east of the Mississippi River. I have also been through Texas, Nevada, and Kansas. Same thing.



The import names get praises for making something that does not meet up with the competition. Lets look at the Ridgeline. If Ford would have built a FWD designed pick-up with a differential in the back to make it AWD, the media would have been all over them. Honda does it, "what a concept!". Give me a break.



The media sings praises about Toyota's. I have driven them. I have felt the "quality" that the media just loves. I don't see it. I try to look at it with an open mind. Industrial grade plastic on the dash. Thin doors and tinny sounding engines.



A Pontiac Vibe is a clone of the Matrix. because it says Toyota in the front, people are willing to pay more for a used Matrix then a used Vibe. Again, the name. It doesn't mean that the Toyota will last longer then the Vibe. The engine isn't going to last longer and the tranny does not shift better on a Matrix. Same vehicle. Higher resale value goes to the Matrix just because it says Toyota in the front. That is really sad.



Mazda was the only innovative car maker out there. At one time, they made three different types of engines. A Gasoline, Diesel, and Rotary. No other car maker out there did that. Mazda just about went broke because of that. If it weren't for Ford bailing Mazda out, Mazda would be gone.



Subaru. The WRX is an awesome vehicle. AWD turbo. Mazda was one of the first, in the USA, to offer an AWD Turbo rally car. The media all but ignored it. When Subaru did it, the oooos and ahhhs went flying.



I have worked on my fair share of Honda's and Toyota's. I have seen some of the most asinine idea's I have ever seen. Banjo bolts that rust to the point of busting fuel lines just to change a fuel filter. People think the quick connectors Ford uses suck. You have no idea what it is like to run a new fuel line.



The freaking rotors on the Toyota my niece drives, are smaller then the rotors on my Escort are.



My brother has had two Honda's. One CRX SI and one Civic SI. Both were garbage. They run like a scalded dog, but at 120,000, they were parked. Bad engine, bad tranny, suspension rusting out. You name it, I have seen it.



I guess what it really comes down to, is it just seems like the media is willing to forgive dumb moves the imports make but chastize the big three for the same mistakes.





Tom
 
Caymen says:
I guess what it really comes down to, is it just seems like the media is willing to forgive dumb moves the imports make but chastize the big three for the same mistakes.



Yeah, that might be it, but I don't so much believe in "the media" as if there is one guy in programming booth somewhere with a nametag on his shirt that says "The Media".



Instead, I believe that "perception is reality". The perception is that the imports are more reliable and better made, and that perception defines the reality. Some perception is based in true reality, but not all. Somone else on this board said that a big part of why imports get such high reliability and consumer satisfaction survey ratings isn't necessarily because the cars are better built, but because the service, when needed, is provided with far fewer hassles.



Another thing the imports tend to do well is to standardize more, in design, and components. Toyota may have as many if not more models than Ford or Chevy, but they have fewer starter motors, and alternators, and fuel assemblies, and various other components and sub-systems as they try to standardize on a few, and reuse them from model to model. That's just smart, and it improves quality ten-fold as you can spend more time qualifying a supplier and a component and distribute that QA cost across all the vehicles using that part...and more models using a part means more parts in the field, sooner, meaning you find problems sooner and can correct them sooner. It also means that there are usually no SMALL problems, which is why when Toyota has a recall it often dwarfs the numbers recalled in USA models.



TJR
 
I guess my 1# disliked automaker is VW. I don't know why, but I can't stand to look at the vehicles.

Maybe, but their new TV commercials are great. :lol:

"Time to unpimp zee auto."
 
Caymen-

The 4.0 in your ST is not a clearance motor. If you loose your timing chain, you will loose your motor. Unless you are exceptionally lucky.



There are very few OHC motors on the market today that are true clearance engines. My Audi A6 2.8 is not, my Jetta 2.0 is not, and my ST 4.0 is not. A timing chain/belt failure on any of them will likely cost the motor.



Advantage Audi/VW. They put the belt in a position that is easily serviceable, and recommend inspecting every 50K with replacement no later than every 90K. Ford calls the chain in the ST a lifetime part, but how many rattle? How many on this board have had failures? And the passenger side cam is driven from a chain on the back of the motor, making easy service impossible. You have to just about completely pull the motor to get to it. I love the 4.0, but the timing chain setup is asinine. They should have run the entire thing from the front, using a drybelt and recommended replacement at a regular interval. I would rather have a belt that I know needs replacement every 50K than have a "lifetime" chain that is almost impossible to get to without major work, sit there and rattle, and worry me for the last 30K. And it is out of warranty.



My favorite automaker? Audi. Hands down. My father has put over 375K on his 1989 Audi 90 with no "repairs". Maintainence? sure, brakes, struts,......typical stuff. But no breakdowns, nothing. My A6 is rolling up on 150K with no problems. Ever. The 4wd is unbeatable. Ever since my first Audi 1986 4000 CS Quattro, I have been sold on Audi's 4dw capabilities. I put 130K on that car without any problems either. Traded for the A6. Should have kept it; in retrospect, it had tons of life left. But I love my A6 too.......



cheers

Andy
 
I never really understood the dislike to other brands. Every brand has had its share of cars/trucks that they wish they could get a "do over" on. I bet Ford would like to take back the Pinto, Chevy take back the Chevette or Corvair and Crystler would take back the Cordoba or Aries, etc.



I am pretty brand dis-loyal. I drive a Ford, and my wife drives a Chevy. That does not neccesarily mean or next cars will be the same.



My wifes last car was a VW jetta. I can say that will probably be our last. It wasn't total junk, but we spent more in maintenance and repairs than I care to talk about. When we traded it at 120,000 miles, we probably spent 10 times in maintenance than we have on the trac and it is at 115,000 miles. If that is a reflection of "German Engineering", then Germany must be about to fall apart.



The Hawk:cool:

 
That is a reflection on German engineering, but made in Mexico.



Keep in mind most north American VWs are made in Mexico.



My Jetta has got 170K and has had less than $1K in repairs.



But I got an early 2000 model, before the Mexico plant was tooled for the new design, and mine was made in Europe.
 
Caymen-

The 4.0 in your ST is not a clearance motor. If you loose your timing chain, you will loose your motor. Unless you are exceptionally lucky.



Did I say anything about a timing chain? I said timing belt. A timing belt requires more maintenance then a chain does. There is a difference.





Tom

 
Funny how Caymen said Toyota engines sound 'tinny'. My Matrix engine is very smooth, much quieter than my old ST with that timing chain rattle it had at 2500-3000 rpm.



Guess it's all in your preconceptions and how those trick you into believing what you want to believe.



On the other hand, the 3.0L V-6 in my wife's Escape is very quiet. Too bad they didn't use that motor in the Trac instead of the 4.0L Explorer motor.



The worst sounding engines have to be the 2.2L 4's used in GM's. Neighbor 2 houses down from me owns a couple of Cavaliers... I can tell who is coming down my street without even looking up due to their clattery/industrial sound. Mitsubishis are just about as bad, too.
 
I will never own a volkswagon. My mom owned 2 Jettas, a 91 (i think) and an 02. Both were crap with major electrical problems that would stall us on family trips etc.



My friend owned a 03 Golf and by the time he got rid of it in 05 (for a mazda 3) he had receipts for warranty work worth more than $18,000. So from my own personal impression of them I could never bring myself to buying one.



Buy I still don't hate them.



Dallas
 
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