Knowingly and willfully selling something you know is defective is not a good way to sleep good. But, if your concience is clear, good for you.
Mine is too.
Not saying you are right or wrong, but...
Tom
2-3 Slip - Scared Newbie Needs Some Guidance
- Thread starter Chris M 2
- Start date
Help Support Ford SportTrac Forum:
Knowingly and willfully selling something you know is defective is not a good way to sleep good. But, if your concience is clear, good for you.
Mine is too.
Not saying you are right or wrong, but...
Tom
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2003
- Messages
- 22,489
- Reaction score
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- Location
- Long Island, NY
- What engine do you have?
- V8 engine
- What year is your Sport Trac?
- 2010
- What Generation is your Sport Trac?
- 2n Gen Owner
It is also against the law to willingly sell something that you know is going to brreak...
So simply don't buy that any more...
I NEVER have had to put a tranny in ANY ford I ever bought new, On my 4th new ford..
My brothers Toyota supra 90K tranny blew, moms Cresida , 55K tranny, Dads Chevy blazer 20K tranny, 90K motor....
My escort 100K no issues, Both BroncoII's know for problems, only 1 needed a motor ( my fault Overheated it)
I think i will keep my fords, Thank you... I will go to bed and sleep knowing i will not have to replace a motor or tranny tomorrow...
Jordan, It sounds like that is the converter or the converter solinoide....
Todd Z
So simply don't buy that any more...
I NEVER have had to put a tranny in ANY ford I ever bought new, On my 4th new ford..
My brothers Toyota supra 90K tranny blew, moms Cresida , 55K tranny, Dads Chevy blazer 20K tranny, 90K motor....
My escort 100K no issues, Both BroncoII's know for problems, only 1 needed a motor ( my fault Overheated it)
I think i will keep my fords, Thank you... I will go to bed and sleep knowing i will not have to replace a motor or tranny tomorrow...
Jordan, It sounds like that is the converter or the converter solinoide....
Todd Z
Jordan Tremblay
Active Member
If it is the converter or the converter solinoide, do I need to change something or fix it? Or is it normal? I just want to be proactive and hopefully head off the problem before it gets any worse.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen said:
Okay, now we are at a difference of opinion on what "knowingly defective" means.
As I said, we had an '04 Ford with the infamous tranny problems. It was adjusted and the solenoids replaces at 11k, 19k and 28k (note 8k to 9k intervals). Each time the Ford dealer said the problem was "fixed", and each time it was, for almost 10k miles.
There are websites dedicated to Ford transmissions issues, those that solicit for lemon law claims...why, because of the high incident rate and recurrence rate of low mileage transmission problems on Explorers.
So, yes, if I replaced the solenoids for $700 or so, that being the "band aid" I spoke of, then I would sleep good at night if I sold the vehicle the next day, or a week later. Just as Ford and Ford dealers have been sleeping good at night with all those shoddy transmissions in the field.
Bottomline: If you replace the solednoid, or do other work, and have it done by a qualified service center and they say "it's fixed", then go ahead and sell it with a clear conscience.
TJR
Okay, now we are at a difference of opinion on what "knowingly defective" means.
As I said, we had an '04 Ford with the infamous tranny problems. It was adjusted and the solenoids replaces at 11k, 19k and 28k (note 8k to 9k intervals). Each time the Ford dealer said the problem was "fixed", and each time it was, for almost 10k miles.
There are websites dedicated to Ford transmissions issues, those that solicit for lemon law claims...why, because of the high incident rate and recurrence rate of low mileage transmission problems on Explorers.
So, yes, if I replaced the solenoids for $700 or so, that being the "band aid" I spoke of, then I would sleep good at night if I sold the vehicle the next day, or a week later. Just as Ford and Ford dealers have been sleeping good at night with all those shoddy transmissions in the field.
Bottomline: If you replace the solednoid, or do other work, and have it done by a qualified service center and they say "it's fixed", then go ahead and sell it with a clear conscience.
TJR
There are websites dedicated to Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford, GM, Chrysler, VW, etc. because a lawyer knows it is a way to make money. There are websites dedicated to bash ebay, Paypal, best buy, CompUSA, etc.
That proves nothing.
For every guy that has issues, there are hundreds that never do. If you find yourself being that guy that always does have issues, you fing youself thinking "It could be my fault"
Tom
While there is some truth to what Caymen is saying abve, I have to disagree that there is nothing wrong with the Sport Trac tranmsissions.
This is a lot of evidence that the ST automatic transmissions have some known weaknesses that have cause problems for disproportionate number of owners.
The problem goes all the way back to the 4 speed version of the same tramsmission that was upgraded to the 5 speed overdrive. The 4 speed was also notorious for the infamus 2-3 shift flare, so much so that Ford added electronic sensors to determing the rotating speed of those gears to insure that 3rd would only engage after 2nd had disengaged. The problems was later found to be in the valvebody shift valves sticking, and also that the valvebody gasket on some transmission was leaking causing lower fluid pressures.
Then a couple of years ago, Ford announce a recall because "Some" transmissions were filled with the wrong fluid at the factory?? The symptoms they described were unable to shift into iny gear, or delayed shifts into reverse.
There are a number of transmission repair websites that sell or modify valvebodies designed specifically to solve the 2-3 shift flare problem that so many ST owners here have reported, and membership here is just a fraction of the owners who purchased about 60K unit every hear for the first 4-5 years. Obviously Ford does not admit to the problem since most failures occur after the 36K mile warranty has expired. I for one think that a transmission should last for the life of the vehicle, not just 50K-70K miles.
I know people who have 25-30 year old junkers that have never been restored or very well maintained and have not had the transmission fluid changed since the day they left the showroom. and they keep plugging away with 200K+ miles on them
The problem appears to be that when the manufacturers starting downsizing the vehicles in the late 1970's they reduced the engine horsepower and made the tramsission lighter duty. Now in the late 1990's and into the 2000's they are putting more horsepower back into the engines but now the transmissions are the weak link in the driveline. I don't think the Sport Trac transmission is strong enough to handle a 200+ horsepower engines in a 4300+ lbs chassis.
...Rich
This is a lot of evidence that the ST automatic transmissions have some known weaknesses that have cause problems for disproportionate number of owners.
The problem goes all the way back to the 4 speed version of the same tramsmission that was upgraded to the 5 speed overdrive. The 4 speed was also notorious for the infamus 2-3 shift flare, so much so that Ford added electronic sensors to determing the rotating speed of those gears to insure that 3rd would only engage after 2nd had disengaged. The problems was later found to be in the valvebody shift valves sticking, and also that the valvebody gasket on some transmission was leaking causing lower fluid pressures.
Then a couple of years ago, Ford announce a recall because "Some" transmissions were filled with the wrong fluid at the factory?? The symptoms they described were unable to shift into iny gear, or delayed shifts into reverse.
There are a number of transmission repair websites that sell or modify valvebodies designed specifically to solve the 2-3 shift flare problem that so many ST owners here have reported, and membership here is just a fraction of the owners who purchased about 60K unit every hear for the first 4-5 years. Obviously Ford does not admit to the problem since most failures occur after the 36K mile warranty has expired. I for one think that a transmission should last for the life of the vehicle, not just 50K-70K miles.
I know people who have 25-30 year old junkers that have never been restored or very well maintained and have not had the transmission fluid changed since the day they left the showroom. and they keep plugging away with 200K+ miles on them
The problem appears to be that when the manufacturers starting downsizing the vehicles in the late 1970's they reduced the engine horsepower and made the tramsission lighter duty. Now in the late 1990's and into the 2000's they are putting more horsepower back into the engines but now the transmissions are the weak link in the driveline. I don't think the Sport Trac transmission is strong enough to handle a 200+ horsepower engines in a 4300+ lbs chassis.
...Rich
shawn stonbraker 2
Well-Known Member
Very well said Rich!!!! I think you hit it right on the head. One tranny for an engine putting out 125-150HP will probably show weakness with the same engine putting out 200+HP. Just because it bolts up without any modification, doesn't mean it is the right choice for the application. Car companies need to realize this. I know the bottom line is to save money in the manufacturing to make money on the sale, but at what cost? The reputaion should be the number one concern when making an automobile. If you make a quality product, the results will be an increase in cash flowing in. Ford and GM need to realize this to get back on track. When was the last time either one has put out a "new" transmission? I'm not talking about a "retooled" one that has another gear to get some more MPG. They do improvements on the engines because HP sells but it's putting alot more strain on the tranny's, and they just aren't going to hold up.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Right on RichardL, Stone.
There seems to be a disproportionate number of Explorers with tranny problems at low mileage (70k miles and under) and Ford doesn't seem to care.
Even on this board many members seem to imply that its simply OK and expected for 1 out of 5, or 2 out of 10 Explorers (and STs or Mountaineers) to have tranny problems with so few miles.
TJR
There seems to be a disproportionate number of Explorers with tranny problems at low mileage (70k miles and under) and Ford doesn't seem to care.
Even on this board many members seem to imply that its simply OK and expected for 1 out of 5, or 2 out of 10 Explorers (and STs or Mountaineers) to have tranny problems with so few miles.
TJR
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen said:
That's a cop out. I have owned almost 10 new vehicles over my lifetime. Only one had tranny problems at around 10K. It was a Ford. When I did my research I found that on average 2 out of 10 owners with the same tranny and with low mileage were reporting the same problems.
Ford engineering f'ed up...I am sure of it. I got paid $2500 in a Lemon Law settlement. Ford will likely get hit with a class action lawsuit for the Explorer trannys. I already got my cut, and since I signed on the line that was dotted, I have no further, future recourse.
Clearly Ford had a big problem with their 02, 03, and especially 04 trannys. The '04 fluid additive recall, IMHO, was nothing more than a recognition on Ford's part of the high rate of failures for 02s and 03s, and an attempt to prevent (or slow) that incident on 04s. I'm sure that's all that was...a hope to slow and delay the inevitable until off warranty.
They can't keep hiding behind this problem, and the apologists forever.
TJR
That's a cop out. I have owned almost 10 new vehicles over my lifetime. Only one had tranny problems at around 10K. It was a Ford. When I did my research I found that on average 2 out of 10 owners with the same tranny and with low mileage were reporting the same problems.
Ford engineering f'ed up...I am sure of it. I got paid $2500 in a Lemon Law settlement. Ford will likely get hit with a class action lawsuit for the Explorer trannys. I already got my cut, and since I signed on the line that was dotted, I have no further, future recourse.
Clearly Ford had a big problem with their 02, 03, and especially 04 trannys. The '04 fluid additive recall, IMHO, was nothing more than a recognition on Ford's part of the high rate of failures for 02s and 03s, and an attempt to prevent (or slow) that incident on 04s. I'm sure that's all that was...a hope to slow and delay the inevitable until off warranty.
They can't keep hiding behind this problem, and the apologists forever.
TJR
I never said there is no problem with the 5R55E tranny. I am simply saying not every 5R55E tranny is going to fail.
I know people that have trouble with every vehicle they buy. Why does one person have the same issue over and over? Could it be a lack of maintenance, driving style, or pure luck?
I drive the piss out of my vehicles. I tow too much weight. I actually bent my hitch towing 8,000 LBS too many times. I drive too fast and stop too hard.
My tranny shifts fine. I replaced my rotors after close to 90,000 miles. My engine has plenty of power. It rides fine.
I still get 19 to 20 MPG driving to and from work with 22 MPG on long trips.
What more can I ask for?
The only tranny I destroyed was in my 1992 Escort GT. That is when I tried to do a burn-out in reverse. Escort differentials do not like 7,000 RPM clutch dumps in reverse. Could I blame that on Ford? Sure. Is it Fords fault? Not in the least.
Buying a used car is always a gamble. Many people neglect their vehicles, then dump them. Buying a used car for the right price is the secret. The money you save can then be "put away" in case something rears it ugly head.
If it were up to me, I would consider selling my wifes 2000 Explorer for $5,500 and buy another one with 130,000+ miles for $3,000. A few repairs later and I can drive another year for nothing. That is right. I can drive a vehicle for a year and make money.
Tom
I know people that have trouble with every vehicle they buy. Why does one person have the same issue over and over? Could it be a lack of maintenance, driving style, or pure luck?
I drive the piss out of my vehicles. I tow too much weight. I actually bent my hitch towing 8,000 LBS too many times. I drive too fast and stop too hard.
My tranny shifts fine. I replaced my rotors after close to 90,000 miles. My engine has plenty of power. It rides fine.
I still get 19 to 20 MPG driving to and from work with 22 MPG on long trips.
What more can I ask for?
The only tranny I destroyed was in my 1992 Escort GT. That is when I tried to do a burn-out in reverse. Escort differentials do not like 7,000 RPM clutch dumps in reverse. Could I blame that on Ford? Sure. Is it Fords fault? Not in the least.
Buying a used car is always a gamble. Many people neglect their vehicles, then dump them. Buying a used car for the right price is the secret. The money you save can then be "put away" in case something rears it ugly head.
If it were up to me, I would consider selling my wifes 2000 Explorer for $5,500 and buy another one with 130,000+ miles for $3,000. A few repairs later and I can drive another year for nothing. That is right. I can drive a vehicle for a year and make money.
Tom
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
I've owned mostly Fords for the last 20 years. One thing I'll note is that many Fords since about 1990 or so recommend a tranny fluid flush every 30k. That's not "severe duty", that's everybody, all the time. And a tranny flush is something that most people don't think of at all and don't want to spend the money on. Only lost one tranny ever, that was in a '91 Lincoln Continental (fwd) that my dad bought new, I got it with 99k on it, tranny went out to lunch around 140k and it had a flush every 30k. Sold it with 152k, still looked and ran like new and never an ounce of trouble with the air susepension (now there's a miracle right there).
Werd.
I think with any vehicle the transmission is on borrowed time after 100k.
I'll be away for several days and without internet access, just so you people know I'm not ignoring you.
Richard L said:
Werd.
I think with any vehicle the transmission is on borrowed time after 100k.
I'll be away for several days and without internet access, just so you people know I'm not ignoring you.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen said:
No one said every tranny was going to fail. But the incident rate of failure even when under warranty is high, and between the period of off-warranty (36K for the older models) and 70k miles it is alarmingly high.
And it seems once problems start, they are costly.
Ford should have addressed these issues long ago.
TJR
No one said every tranny was going to fail. But the incident rate of failure even when under warranty is high, and between the period of off-warranty (36K for the older models) and 70k miles it is alarmingly high.
And it seems once problems start, they are costly.
Ford should have addressed these issues long ago.
TJR
Chris H 3
Member
This is a very timely post for me and my 02 70K ST. (Thanks to Stonemiser and the other Chris a little farther down the alphabet.)
Does anyone know an honest tranny shop in North Atlanta? How about Tilden in Dunwoody? They have done maintenance work on my wife's Volvo before with no complaints.
Chris H.
Does anyone know an honest tranny shop in North Atlanta? How about Tilden in Dunwoody? They have done maintenance work on my wife's Volvo before with no complaints.
Chris H.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
JohnnyO said:
That's the problem with low expectations. Those delivering goods and services will always live up to them.
If 100K is borrowed time, then for every 130K or 140K breakdown expect to see some failures at 60K and 70K.
TJR
That's the problem with low expectations. Those delivering goods and services will always live up to them.
If 100K is borrowed time, then for every 130K or 140K breakdown expect to see some failures at 60K and 70K.
TJR
Do you have actual numbers, or are you going by the lawyer scare (sell) tactics?
Not really. The costly part is driving it for months hopeing a problem you have is going to go away.
Lets see some actual numbers and not some ploy of an ambulance chasing lawyer scaring someone into a lawsuit.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen, you know very well that the actual numbers could only be obtained by Ford, and Ford isn't about to disclose them.
All I have, all anyone has, is what they read on boards, and what they can get from service managers that are willing to talk. The service managers I have talked to said there are severe issues with the 02-04 trannies on Explorers.
Q: Do you think that the 04' Transmission Fluid Additive recall was anything more than Ford's reaction to an alarming rate of transmission failures in the 02s and 03s?
Recalls are most often put in place for safety issues. Anything that is a minor defect that isn't a safety issue never gets a recall. The transmission fluid additive recall was NOT a safety recall. It was, IMHO, a preventitive measure by Ford to delay costly transmission repairs until the vehicle was off-warranty.
If not for the reasons I mention, then why exactly was that recall put in place? What was it meant to accomplish?
TJR
All I have, all anyone has, is what they read on boards, and what they can get from service managers that are willing to talk. The service managers I have talked to said there are severe issues with the 02-04 trannies on Explorers.
Q: Do you think that the 04' Transmission Fluid Additive recall was anything more than Ford's reaction to an alarming rate of transmission failures in the 02s and 03s?
Recalls are most often put in place for safety issues. Anything that is a minor defect that isn't a safety issue never gets a recall. The transmission fluid additive recall was NOT a safety recall. It was, IMHO, a preventitive measure by Ford to delay costly transmission repairs until the vehicle was off-warranty.
If not for the reasons I mention, then why exactly was that recall put in place? What was it meant to accomplish?
TJR
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Gypsy me
Well-Known Member
I own an 04 same tranny as others, over 42 thousand miles not one issue, had the additive added still no issues, I used o/d off/on to climb and slow down on hills, (as stated in the owners manual) still no issues. I LOVE MY Trac I find it very odd that some have problems and others don't. Maybe they fired the gal or guy that created the issues at the tranny factory? Chris M, I think you should get it checked out at a local tranny shop as others have stated, once it's fixed you will have a GREAT ride
carry on
I find it very odd that some have problems and others don't. Maybe they fired the gal or guy that created the issues at the tranny factory? Chris M, I think you should get it checked out at a local tranny shop as others have stated, once it's fixed you will have a GREAT ride carry on
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
OUCH! That hurts thinking about it!
I had a Ford EXP that went through four manual transmissions in the first 10,000 miles. What a junk transmission! No synchros on reverse--always got a nice loud grind when putting it into reverse. The thing looked like an aluminum beer can with a few pieces of steel gears inside it.
I can imagine the strain of doing a reverse burnout on such a light-duty piece of crap with a heavy car like an Escort. Forward it wouldn't be so bad since there wasn't much traction or weight shift for more traction. Reverse would be a killer!
Dreman
Well-Known Member
The Escort is a heavy car? What do you consider a light car?
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
GM...42K miles is just breaking in a vehicle, IMHO. The next 30k miles will tell. After that, by all accounts, you are on "borrowed tranny time" with the ST's transmission.
Good luck.
TJR
Good luck.
TJR
