2-3 Slip - Scared Newbie Needs Some Guidance

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I guess I am on OT borrowed time. 90,000 miles. My brother is on tripple borrowed time at 160,000 miles and my sister...well, at 190,000 miles, what would you call that?



Fact is, there are some issues with the ST's tranny. Does it mean all will fail? Nope. Are the odds are against you that it will fail?



Not in the least.



Some people like to sensationalize everything. Fall into the sucker bait lawyers like to jiggle in our faces.





Tom
 
I don’t think anyone can predict when or even if a particular transmission will fail. So I don’t think anyone should dump their Sport Trac because they are approaching 50K, 70K, or even 150K miles because they fear their transmission will die any time because they are on borrowed time.



As previously stated, Ford is not telling anyone just how many transmission failures there have been with the 5speed automatic but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that the failure rate is significantly higher than most other vehicles.



People expect major drive train components to last the life of the vehicle with reasonable maintenance, but we all know that new things will break within days of getting them, Sometimes they break sooner rather than later. Many people are of the opinion that the Sport Trac transmission is breaking more frequently than it should and a lot sooner than it should. This opinion is supported by the number of people who post here who have experienced transmission problems with their Sport Trac.



The all too common 2-3 shift flare has plagued Ford’s automatic transmission for many years including the 4-speed predecessor of the 5-speed transmission. The problem is so well known in transmission repair circles that some companies have repair kits to replace the troublesome OEM valve body assembly with custom made, or factory modified units.



Ford is obviously aware of the problem since the early days of the 4-speed automatic which had the same 2-3 shift flare problem, because they added electronic sensor to detect the when those gears were engaged or disengaged. That’s one of the triggers for the flashing O/D light, however we all know that by the time the O/D light starts flashing, you already have major damage to the transmission.



Ford also came out with a modified valve body for the 5-speed transmissions, however this was only successful if the clutches and bands were not already damaged beyond repair.



It may be simply a tolerance issue. The smaller the tolerances, the more expensive the part is to manufacture. That’s why German and Japanese cars tend to be more reliable is their close tolerances insure uniformity and higher quality. I think the deciding factor if your transmission is destined to fail or not just depends on some minor variances in tolerances. If a part is to be machined +/- .005” and your part is within tolerances on the negative side, your’s may fail while someone on the positive side yet still within tolerances never has a problem. Perhaps if it’s pressure related, and the tolerance is between 60-70 PSI, it works fine if your fluid pressure is above 65 PSI while someone with pressure on the lower side of 65 PSI may be prone to early failure.



In either case, the transmission is within the specifications and tolerances, but if it is on the wrong end of the tolerance range, you are prone to failure?? What ever the reason, Ford has either not resolved the issue, or they know what causes the failures but refuses to admit there is a problem to avoid the expense of repairing thousands of transmissions. They can save a lot of money if most failures occur after the warranty has expired.



…Rich

 
Nick,

Not bad luck, Just some bad eggs.....



Things here can scare you, But just think how many people post with problems, I am going to say a bunch of them don't even own the ST any more...



Todd Z
 
TJR, I'm not really worried about it, as I live with a "FORD" guy ;) He knows all when it comes to Fords and other makes and is well qualified to trouble shoot and fix it all. (Lucky me!) But I also want to add, in all the years he has worked on Fords and for Ford, he has not yet once seen a bad tranny in the ST, and in all those years he did tranny flushes, not one ever had an issue after. I want to add, he has told me, there is a correct way to flush a tranny and a wrong way. He too has in the past owned two ST's himself. He didn't get rid of them due to issues, he gets a new vehicle every two years no matter what.





I just wonder if sometimes it has something to do with folks not knowing when to use O/D off and on.. something to ponder... :) I used to be scared of the o/d blinking light of death, but really I don't believe out of the THOUSANDS of buyers of STs can we really say there is a problem from the factory on the tranny, (although, that should not be ruled out) just from about 15-20 posts of people that has had the issue.





A few do have tranny issues on this site and do not have the the same tranny issues.

Many of us have never had any trouble at all. We would have to see the Ford Complaint statistics to know for sure just how many ST's were reported to have issues with the tranny and How many with the same issue. Other than that all we have is this site and what we read.



In Kingman, AZ I know there are at least 22 (5 are 07 models) ST's rolling around, and I have not heard of one tranny issue with any of them, how do I know, I ask.
 
GM,



I no longer have my ST. I sold it with 32K miles on it. Never ever had O/D turned off. Then again, I never hauled anything with the truck, other than a load of mulch a few times. No towing was done.



I didn't have any tranny issues with the truck. I did have the infamous "low temperature whining" problem, and the "slow speed turning shudder" problem. Both of which seem pretty chronic, both of which are known by Ford as they are discussed in TSB.



Ford did the '04 tranny additive recall for a reason. I submit that reason was to address the alarming number of transmission failures they were seeing in the 02, 03 models. They wanted to get ahead of the problem, and delay it from happening or lower the incidence of it happening in the '04 models.



My wife and I had an '04 Mountaineer. It was a demonstrator. It had almost 7k miles when we got it "new". We leased it. Within 3k miles it had the tranny flare issue and the clunk into reverse issue. Several adjustments, two sol packs and another 20K miles later and it was still not right.



As I did my research I found that several owners of 02, 03, and especially 04 Explorers (and STs and Mountaineers...all with the same tranny) were exhibiting similar failures at low miles...well less than 50k miles, some as low as 10k miles or less.



Sure, we hear about a few dozen or so on this site, and you find as many on as many other sites. We even started a poll once on this site to see how many were having tranny problems.



The bottom line, as I see it, is that there is a problem here in Ford quality, and its pervasive. Ford knows they have issues. They know they are selling a product that will lilkely have tire cupping issues for whatever reason; they know that they have under-powered power steering pumps; they knew that the OEM shocks on the '05 and earlier models were not sufficient; they knew that the OEM tires were crap; they know they have a tranny issue (thus the '04 recall). They know or knew these things, yet rather than fix them, rather than retool their lines, and re-engineer thier models and components, they simply seem to feel that what they are selling is "good enough", as if a defect that hits 1 in 100, or even worse, 1 in 20, or 1 in 10, is okay.



TJR
 
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Ford did the '04 tranny additive recall for a reason. I submit that reason was to address the alarming number of transmission failures they were seeing in the 02, 03 models. They wanted to get ahead of the problem, and delay it from happening or lower the incidence of it happening in the '04 models.
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Good thinking. The additive was a tranny repair in a bottle.



Actually, that bottle was to fix the mistake at the factory. The wrong fluid was put in the tranny at the factory and the bottle was to bring the fluid up to the proper specs.



It was not a special witches brew that would magically prevent a tranny from failing. "Cauldron boil and bubble, no longer have the tranny give trouble" :lol:



It was an additive to bring the existing fluid up to the requires specs to perform like it should.





Tom
 
It was an additive to bring the existing fluid up to the requires specs to perform like it should.
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BINGO !!!!



Todd Z
 
Caymen says:
Actually, that bottle was to fix the mistake at the factory. The wrong fluid was put in the tranny at the factory and the bottle was to bring the fluid up to the proper specs.
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For a guy that seems to believe every nutball conspiracy theory about GWB, I don't see why you wouldn't "question" the whole "wrong fluid at the factory" line that Ford put out.



I personally find it hard to believe that all of a sudden Ford started putting the wrong fluid in trannies.



More likely, IMHO, is that they wanted to change the fluid in an attempt to avoid the problems they were seeing.



If the recall truly was for the purposes of bringing the existing fluid up to the required specs, then my question is was the original fluid really wrong, or did the so-called "specs" change?



I suspect that the fluid in the 04s originally was the same as in the 03 and 02, the only thing that changed was the specs. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary?



If my theory is the case, then why did the specs change?



And if my theory is not correct, then why did the '04s get a different fluid in the factory than previous model years? If they did have a different fluid, I doubt it was accidental.



Regardless which came first, the fluid change, the spec change, the wrong fluid; the one thing that is clear is that there appears to be what we call in the industry "tampering" going on. Tampering in that changes were being made. Why were those changes being made?



It all smells way too fishy to me.



TJR
 
I think all the confusion about the "Tranny fix i a bottle" was that Ford really never explained the issue, and the dealers were even more confused. Some dealers were telling people that eveytime they had their tranny fluid changed or flushed they would have to add another bottle of the additive. If you put in the correct Mercon-V, why would you need to add their snake oil?



Ford said that they put the wrong fluid in the vehicles. Was this a suppler problem? Or was it a modification of the original Mercon-V formula to help resolve a problem? Remeber that the recall was only for specific model years and only those the vehicles that exhibited a specific set of symptoms...ie: Would not shift into gear or was slow shifting into gear, particularly in reverse. Those were symptoms that nobody had reported here prior to the recall, and there have only been a few reports since the recall. They very gingerly tip-toed around the working to eliminate the symptoms of the 2-3 shift flare problem, and I think that makes a lot of people suspicious.



The 2-3 shift flare is a much more common problem that has been reported here many dozens of times, yet Ford continues to ignore that the issue even exists ??



I'm sure thare are some people who are like hypo-condriacs and if they hear of someone having a transmission problem, suddenly they imagine they are having the same problems when in fact there is nothing wrong.



...Rich



 
For a guy that seems to believe every nutball conspiracy theory about GWB, I don't see why you wouldn't "question" the whole "wrong fluid at the factory" line that Ford put out.
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My line of work educates me about the government inner workings. Something you and most people have no clue about.





Tom
 
Caymen said:
My line of work educates me about the government inner workings. Something you and most people have no clue about.
Click to expand...



There you go again! Assuming that you know with authority what someone you have never met knows or doesn't know.



TJR
 
I also know how easy it is for a mix-up can happen.



Here is an example.



A few years back, I was involved in an incident where a company was having trouble with bad welds. They got a different welder, same thing. New welding machine and wire. Still same problem. New argon tank. Still same issue.



The problem, the argon tanks were accidently filled with air, and not argon. By knowing what welds were being welded with the wrong tanks, we were able to X-Ray the suspected bad welds to confirm the quality.



How can saying the wrong fluid be so hard to believe?



There you go again! Assuming that you know with authority what someone you have never met knows or doesn't know.
Click to expand...



Because if you knew you would think the same way.





Tom
 
Caymen said:
How can saying the wrong fluid be so hard to believe?
Click to expand...



Because there is evidence to the contrary.



Again, was the original fluid wrong because a mistake was made, or determined after the fact to be inappropriate because of a spec change.



We will never know. Either way, essentially Ford is telling the truth: "That the wrong fluid was added in the factory."



The question is when did it become "wrong?"



TJR
 
What evidence...the evidence that I have, which is circumstantial, but evidence nonetheless, and it is an alarming rate of failures in 02, 03, and 04 transmissions.



You dismiss that evidence as non-existent. I don't. That's the difference.



As I said, the hard, factual evidence is held by Ford. They won't be sharing it I am sure, not until the class action lawsuit hearing that is.



TJR
 
2001 had the same fluid. No failures there? How about the 2004 Explorers that have the additive? 2005 Trac's? No tranny failures at all?



You are just guessing and making it as fact. That is wrong and you know it.





Tom
 
Caymen said:
2001 had the same fluid. No failures there? How about the 2004 Explorers that have the additive? 2005 Trac's? No tranny failures at all?



You are just guessing and making it as fact. That is wrong and you know it.
Click to expand...



Says who? Can you show me that the 2001 had the same fluid? Can you show me there we no failures for the 2001...I am sure there were some.



As for 2004 with the additive, I know of several that had issues...I owned one. Talked to the local Ford dealer, they fixed several when fixing mine, and they don't even sell that many Explorers being a small suburban shop.



I'm not making stuff up. Neither is RichardL or others who are looking at the "evidence" with an open mind.



I talk with people, I hit various boards, and I see a high incident rate of reported Explorer trannies across the recent years.



It's not just one website either, it's many (like the one linked), it's no one data point, but several...all of it, together, makes a reasonable person think that there is (was?) an Explorer transmission issue that is hitting more owners than it probably should.



So, no, I am not making things up, just reporting what I am seeing and connecting some dots.



Oh, and I have respectfully asked you before to not "TELL ME" what I know. I'll remind you again of that. It is an insult for you to assume what I know, what I think, and to tell me so as if you are a mind reader. It is very insulting, so stop it.



TJR
 
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I know for a fact that the 2000 Explorer used the same fluid. Mercon V. How do I know, I have one. the 1998 and 1999 also use Mercon V fluid.



That is right. The same tranny fluid in the 2001 to 2005 Sport Trac is also used in the 1998 Explorer. Mercon V





Tom
 
Caymen,

If the tranny is the same, and you have had no problems, then that makes me even more suspicious that Ford really corrected any problem by the recall to add the bottle of "Tranny fix" That also just confirms that you agree with what we are saying, that the bottle of tranny fix did not solve the more common problem of the 2-3 shift flare.



If the 2-3 shift flare problem no longer exist in the newer model Explorers and Sport Trac's, perhaps Ford finally found a solution to the problem that fits within their budget and implemented that modification in the new models.



If they admitted there was a problem they would have a very angry bunch of owners of the older models wanting their transmission fixed or replaced on Fords dime, espcially the ones who were ignored or never got their dealer to properly fix the transmission. You know, the ones that were told, "We can't duplicate the problem", or "That's normal, all Sport Trac's do that", etc. Then when the warranty expired they were told "you need to have the transmission rebuilt and that will cost you about $2400".!



I have to agree with TJR, It is very odd for you to side with Ford on this issue and imply that there is no real problems with the 5-speed automatic transmission used in the earlier Sport Trac's (2001-2004)



The fact that many transmission did not fail does not mean there is no problem. Of all the Explorers made with the 5 speed automatice, we don't know the exact percentage of transmission failure that have occured over the years, partly because Ford won't tell anyone, and partly because they may not know all the failures. You have to consider that if most failures occur in the 50K-70K mile range, then those vehicles are out of the 36/36 warranty and unless they have an extended warranty many of those transmission are fixed at other tranny shops like AMMCO, etc.



Ford rightfully figures that they a financially better if they don't admit to any transmission problems during the 2001-2004 model years assuming that most transmission failures will after the 36/36 warranty and the number of failures that occur on vehicles with the ESP extended warranty would be low enough to be offset by the profit made on the price of the ESP warranty. So in either case it's a win-win bet for Ford to just ignore the problem. The only ones who really know there is a problem are the members of our website and similar Explorer sites, and the people who experienced transmission failures. There only recourse is to get the word out and to sue Ford.



If I could get odds like that in Las Vegas, I would move there tomorrow :D



 

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