90 Year Old Vet told to remove Flag by homeowners Assoc.

[Tom Schindler]

By the way, HOA's are not profit oriented and since even the board members are volunteers, they will pay their share.

I don't ever recall saying a HOA tries to get rich. I would rather live in an area without a HOA so I can apply that money I would be paying to a HOA to my mortgage.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Ironic!



I think a HOA is a lot like a union.



It's an organization that exists to represent the interests of its members; achieving for the members that which the members might otherwise be less likely to get on their own, and in return requires a fee from said members.



That's what a HOA is. I pay them so that I can be a part of the organization that sets rules, and has my back, making sure that member's home values are maintained due to proper maintenance of member homes, etc. Without a HOA it might be difficult to make sure my neighbor's lawn gets mowed, or he doesn't put crap all over the place. So, if I value that, I pay into a HOA.



Very similar to a union. If I think that I cannot achieve what I want from a job, or from an employer on my own, I might seek a job that is unionized and pay a union to help get the things I might not otherwise get on my own.



Union = HOA.



So, I guess it would make sense not wanting a HOA if you simply don't believe in paying someone else to regulate you, represent you, and provide services for you, supposedly for your own good. Of course, it would be ironic if you felt that way about HOA, but not about Unions.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

So, we can agree that Gary S. is a union supporter. TJR is too.





Tom

 

[Les]

I don't ever recall saying a HOA tries to get rich. I would rather live in an area without a HOA so I can apply that money I would be paying to a HOA to my mortgage.

The money I spend for services I receive from my HOA is money I would spend anyway for those services. If I paid for them independently, it would cost me more. Yeah, living in a HOA comes with rules, as does the city, county or state you live in. But I knew going in what they were, and found them more helpful in keeping some of my neighbors in-line over the years, than being a personal problem for me.



Back to the original thread...check with the home owners in the immediate area and if they don't mind, and it doesn't sound like they will since many reports indicate there are many that fly the flag, give the MOH winner a pass, he's earned it.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen,



I never said I was a supporter of HOAs. When I said "I" above, I was speaking to make a point.



I don't live in house regulated by a HOA.



I probably never will.



I don't believe in organizations that take my money, represent me, and say they have my interests in mind, but yet to them I am just another faceless, nameless, number...a drone that must conform.



That's not to say that for some people, HOAs, or Unions for that matter might not be just what they need. I'm just not one of those people.



I'll take care of myself, thank you.



TJR

 

[Les]

I don't believe in organizations that take my money, represent me, and say they have my interests in mind, but yet to them I am just another faceless, nameless, number...a drone that must conform.

...so you don't believe in our government ?



Like them or not, HOA's are a way of life in many areas of our country. Obviously the more rural you are, the less populated the area, or a slower developing community, the more choices you may have. Except in the most populated areas up north, this is not nearly the problem as in the more "recently" developed south.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Les,



Correct. I DO NOT believe it is the role of our government to "take care" of its citizens.



Because, essentially, they can't do that without picking my pocket.



TJR

 

[gary s]

tom,



of course i am pro union, my wife is a member :banana:

we reap all the benefits

as far as landscaping, 5 months a year doesn't cut it in florida. check me again 140 a month and btw water is expensive in fla.

in my case, HOA works good for me as i may not want to look at your rusty shed in the back of yard against that eye sore of a fence you have. (example).

i don't think you want to live next to someone that has 10 broken down fords in their yard, do you?



gavin,



based on what you said, so should you get special treatment from everyone else ?

wake up bud

 

[Tom Schindler]

i don't think you want to live next to someone that has 10 broken down fords in their yard, do you?

I do not have a HOA and nobody in this area has broken down cars in ther yards. Your point?





Tom

 

[gary s]

my point,



what is to say you have a neighbor move in that is a slob and does not maintain his yard, collects "parts" vehicles, paints their house pink ( oh wait you may like that ).



when you wake up in the morning is that what you want to look at?



this is gettin' old. don't worry, i will be perfectly happy with my home in the HOA

 

[Kerry Matthews]

My family owned a 'summer cabin' on Forest Service land near Lake Tahoe. FS guidelines are worse than some HOA's. A guy in the next tract down from us had the same problem. He erected a tall white wooden flagpole in front of his cabin, and flew the Stars & Stripes from it. FS came along and told him he'd have to take it down, as it wasn't an 'approved' flagpole, and it didn't meet FS guidelines for 'blending' in with the surroundings. He told 'em "Screw you! I'm on US goverment owned land, and you're telling me I can't fly a US flag on US owned land?!" They took him to court over it. It went all the way to the Supreme Court, as no lower court would touch the case. He won...

_________________

 

[Nik Hoffman]

Wow, my HOA dues are only 200 a year, still have the restrictions on a fence shed, but oh well. Ill keep the rules in mind when I move elsewhere. I for one like my property value right where it is, unless it plans on going up more!

 

[TrainTrac]

It seems that support for the Colonel is growing . The American Legion has volunteered to cover his legal expenses. This has gotten so much publicity that I'm betting that the HOA board will soon vote to change the rules in favor of Col. Barfoot. They won't want the bad PR, nor do they want to spend $$$ on a legal fight, especially if Col. Barfoot's getting supporters with $$$ like the Legion.

Legion supports veteran's fight for flagpole



The American Legion - December 3, 2009



The American Legion has joined the fight being waged by a Medal of Honor recipient against a Virginia homeowner association's demands to remove a flagpole.



Col. Van Barfoot, 90, a World War II and Vietnam veteran, was ordered by the Sussex Square Homeowner's Association to remove the flagpole from his front lawn after he flew the U.S. flag on Labor Day and Veterans Day. The association is claiming that the flag pole is not "aesthetically appropriate."



"The association underestimated the fight left in this elderly veteran and now they have to contend with the determination and persistence of Col. Barfoot's 2.5 million friends in The American Legion," National Commander Clarence Hill said. "Col. Barfoot has hired legal counsel. The American Legion is prepared to help with the expenses and fight these disgraceful actions by the association. Where is the common sense here? Is this anyway to treat any American, much less a true hero like Col Barfoot?"



Fighting for the flag is not new to The American Legion, the nation's leading authority on flag etiquette. Since 1989, The Legion has been fighting for a constitutional amendment that would grant Congress the authority to protect Old Glory from desecration.



"The flag is a symbol of our country," Hill said. "People should fly it proudly. That's all Col. Barfoot wants to do. If he were desecrating the flag, instead, the association couldn't do a thing to stop him. We proudly stand with Col. Barfoot and say enough already!' Let him keep the flagpole and fly the flag as often as he wants. He certainly earned that right."



"What the association is doing is especially disgraceful given the fact that our president has ordered another 30,000 troops to Afghanistan in defense of our freedom," added Joseph Caouette, The American Legion's Chairman of Americanism. "I wonder what they think of all of this."

 

[Nelson Atwell]

I seriously think the US Flag Code should be amended to state that as long as all other Flag regulations are adhered to and it doesn't violate safety regulations or intrude on someone else's property, that anyone can plant a flag pole anywhere they damn well please.

 

[Andy Cabrera]

From the Richmond Times Dispatch!

A homeowner's association said today it will drop threatened legal proceedings against Col. Van T. Barfoot over the Medal of Honor recipient's refusal to get rid of a vertical flag pole.

"The Sussex Square Homeowners Association Board has agreed to withdraw legal action previously announced for Friday, December 11, 2009 at 5:00 p.m.,"

HOAs are not all powerful! Especially when they are exposed to mass negative publicity



Col. Van T. Barfoot - Fly proudly Sir!



[Broken External Image]:[Broken External Image]:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Cabrera said:

HOAs are not all powerful! Especially when they are exposed to mass negative publicity

Changing rules and laws because of "mass negative publicity" to me sounds a lot like rule by mob and succuming to mob mentality.



On that very subject Thomas Jefferson said:

"Bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

To me, that means that as long as no rights were violated or laws broken then the minority (the HOA) should not be compelled by the majority (the public and public opinion), and when such happens it is not necessarily a cause for celebration.



Again, not knowing all the facts of the case I think an organization should have the right to define their own member rules and hold their members accountable, so long as those rules don't violate any laws. I'm not so sure in this case any laws were violated.



Lastly, I agree someone should be able to fly a flag on their property in a manner that they wish...so long as they don't willingly and by their own choice live in an area controlled by an organization that legally sets restrictions on said.



TJR

 

[Roger Batts]

To top it all off, this was included in the article:

On another front today, U.S. Rep. Eric I. Cantor, R-7th. introduced a resolution in the House of Representatives resolving that any recipient of the Medal of Honor be permitted to "properly display" the flag from the recipient's property.

It looks like someone sat up and took notice! Just wish Congress would do the same about everything else!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Roger,



So you think more laws defining our rights, and more laws for the special rights of special groups are a good thing?



I certainly don't.



Less laws. Less special cases. Smaller government. That's what I'd rather see.



TJR

 

[Roger Batts]

What I meant was, I wish Congress would listen to us instead of their fat-cat buddies in the special interest groups.

 

[Tom Schindler]

I wish Congress would listen to us instead of their fat-cat buddies in the special interest groups.

We don't have the money the fat cat buddies have.





Tom