applying for my concealed license permit...

[Tom Schindler]

I wonder if getting a CCW is similar to getting an FFL, gave mine up 20 yrs ago because having an FFL you forfit your search and siezure(SP)rights.

A CCW permit is not issued through the feds. They do not know that I have one. The Sherriff in my county (Anti-gun Sherriff) does not know I have one. Only the Sherriff in the neighboring county (Pro gun Sherriff) does.



In Ohio, the local Sherriff issues the CCW permit on a "shall issue" basis. In other words, they must have a reason you can't carry. California is a May issue state. They can deny because they don't feel you should.





Tom

 

[Bill Barber]

Thx C

Did not know that, but would be surprized if the feds do not have access to all state and county CCW data.

Friend of mine has a kali CCW,Ex LEO.He told me if you get pulled over by the CHP, or any city cop in the entire state, They will know when they run the puter Ck that you have been issued a CCW, But thats kali.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Bill,



There is a record of the permits issued to whomever inquires about it.



in example, you can go the the Sherriff and ask, "Does So and So have a CCW permit?". They must tell you. You can not ask "Give me a list of everyone that has a CCW permit".



A cop does not get a list that has everyoine listed, but when they run your plate, you do come us as having a permit.



More like a "need to know" basis.





Tom

 

[Bill Barber]

Thats most likely a good thing, from the LEOs standpoint, if i was a LEO, pulled over a car, ran the plate, saw that the driver has a CCW, first thing that comes to mind would be, this Driver may be armed, would call for backup.

Your going to be treated like a serial killer from the get go, LEOs will instruct you via in car bullhorn, get out of the car, pass side, lay down, spread eagle, do not move.

having a CCW is a man thing, no thx, do not want one, JMO

 

[TrainTrac]

Thats most likely a good thing, from the LEOs standpoint, if i was a LEO, pulled over a car, ran the plate, saw that the driver has a CCW, first thing that comes to mind would be, this Driver may be armed, would call for backup.

Your going to be treated like a serial killer from the get go, LEOs will instruct you via in car bullhorn, get out of the car, pass side, lay down, spread eagle, do not move.

I would disagree. There are plenty of stats that prove that most citizens with CCW permits are trained, responsible, law-abiding folk. They don't go waiving their weapons around and running their mouths. Kinda renders the whole concept of concealed moot. Most folks with a CCW permit rarely, if ever draw their weapons. Because they're responsible enough to know that you only draw a weapon if you truly intend to use it and then accept said consequences of using it. And though I don't have a CCW permit and haven't gone through the training (I live in the People's Democratic Socialist Republic of Illinois--on of only two states in the union with NO CCW law):smile0001:, I'm betting that it's part of many states' CCW training to immediately inform a LEO that you're legally carrying if you're pulled over. Just makes sense, to prevent the LEO from reacting in an over-zealous manner if he catches a glimpse of your weapon under your coat as you reach for your ID.



It's the idiot punks with a stolen, illegal weapon stuffed in their shorts who pull it when someone looks at them cross-eyed that LEO's need to be more concerned about than law-abiding, legally carrying CCW-permit holding citizens.

 

[Bill Barber]

TT

you say most citizens, thus could be a few bad apples with CCWs, agreed?

LEOs get killed all the time in my local, they cannot be to carefull.

 

[James Kerr]

In Florida there is no requirement to tell a cop you have a gun on you. They cannot look it up by running a check. I have had interactions with cops before and they never knew I had a gun on me because they didnt ask. I have had interactions were I did tell them and they didn't really care.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

Having to tell the LEO if you have a CCW varies state by state. I can't seem to find the link now, but there used to be a site that did reciprocity and gave the specifics on the laws and that part was also included.



I remember that WA does not require me to tell an officer if I am carrying, I still think it is a good idea, I always like to make officers comfortable and if they found out after the fact I don't see them being very happy.



License and Registration, yes sir, and also include my permit because it is in the same pocket as my ID. I would only offer up the ccw if I was carrying, when I got pulled over and wasn't carrying I wasn't tackled or anything crazy so I doubt they looked it up.

 

[TrainTrac]

you say most citizens, thus could be a few bad apples with CCWs, agreed?

LEOs get killed all the time in my local, they cannot be to carefull.

Very true. There's always a few bad apples in every barrel, no matter what you're talking about.



But just to play devil's advocate in your scenario about how you'd treat CCW-permit holders in a traffic stop if you were a LEO:



Wouldn't treating them all that way be, gasp, profiling???:smile0005: How is what you say different than treating any other group of citizens (black, hispanic, white-trash skinheads, mullet-wearing, religion & gun clingers, etc.) in the same manner in a traffic stop? I thought profiling was expressly verboten in this country?

 

[Richard L]

Virginia is a strange state. You can pack a gun, but not a radar detector??:smile0008:



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

Your going to be treated like a serial killer from the get go, LEOs will instruct you via in car bullhorn, get out of the car, pass side, lay down, spread eagle, do not move.

I was pulled over for speeding in a small village that has a "Ticket Based" economy. This village of less than 1200 people covers 6.9 square miles. They issue HUNDREDS of speeding tickets a day. The revenue of these tickets is MILLIONS of dollars a year for the mayor and police force.



I will pulled over driving 62 in a 35 zone. I was speeding. It was my fault and I know it. The officer pulled me over. Asked for licence and proof of insurance. informed him of my CCW and that I was armed. Officer thanked me for telling him since his dispacher didn't. Long story short, he came back and let me go without a ticket. He thanked me for being honest and cooperative with him.



If I would not have had my CCW permit, I would have gotten a ticket.



What does a CCW permit say about you?



I am a good person



Why?



To get a CCW permit, you have to visit the Sherriff's office. You get finger printed. You pass a background check. You have not been deemed as having any mental illness. Have not been convicted of a felony.



That says alot about you.



Without a CCW permit, the officer does not know anything about you. Has he ever been convicted of a fealony? Has he ever been deemed to have a mental illness? Does he have a gun?

having a CCW is a man thing, no thx, do not want one, JMO

Some people can not handle the responsibility of having a permit. There is nothing wrong with that. That is why it is a choice to get one.



For me, having the gun calms me down. I do not get upset at people. I do not freak out if I am at my parents and some crack head comes up begging for money. When at a shopping mall, I am more comfortable around my surounds.



I am more at ease at work because I work afternoons and my wife carries a weapon on her person when she is out.



None of this guarantees we will be safe, but we have a chance.





Tom

 

[TomT]

Thats most likely a good thing, from the LEOs standpoint, if i was a LEO, pulled over a car, ran the plate, saw that the driver has a CCW, first thing that comes to mind would be, this Driver may be armed, would call for backup.

Your going to be treated like a serial killer from the get go, LEOs will instruct you via in car bullhorn, get out of the car, pass side, lay down, spread eagle, do not move.

having a CCW is a man thing, no thx, do not want one, JMO

I can tell you that in Texas it's the exact opposite. Because LEO's know you have already been heavily scrutinized and are not a criminal, unlike someone without a CHL. You have to be squeaky clean to get a CHL.

 

[Kevin Lang]

None of this guarantees we will be safe, but we have a chance.

That seems to say that you do not believe that you have a chance against this cruel and violent world without a gun. If you have no chance without a crutch, you have no chance with him.



You're essentially saying that if some beefy unarmed dude comes up and is hell-bent on beating the living crap out of you, unless you have a gun, you do not have a prayer, but if you are armed, then you magically have a chance. That's preposterous, if you don't have the courage and initiative to even try to defend yourself without a gun, a few pounds of metal isn't going to help you.



You could shoot your assailant, yes. The gun could, in a completely sad way, even you out against your unarmed bruiser, but if you do not have the guts to even try to defend yourself without a gun, you won't find the guts to pull the trigger.



This train of thought is akin to having to down some booze to get "liquid courage" to talk to a lady. If you couldn't do it successfully before, you won't meet success with a crutch.



To quote Futurama, "Who needs courage when you have a gun?!"

:smile0010:



(*For the record I have nothing against guns)

 

[Richard L]

KL,

It has nothing to do with courage. a person can be killed by a single punch, and the guy does not have to be a big bruiser to do it. A gun is the great equalizer, and that's why police carry them.



You can be macho and think that you can defend yourself against any attacker, but the training and testing required for a concealed weapons permit clearly defines when it is lawfull and unlawfull to use deadly force.



Yes, it might be more sociall acceptable to use a Taser, or stun-gun, but in many states they are illegal to carry, or even own one.



In the end, it does not matter who is right or wrong if you are dead, so it's really about who's left. Anyone who has had to kill someone in self defense will tell you that it was a horrible experience, but they would do it again under the same circumstances.



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

KL,



You are right. I am defenseless against someone more powerful than I am. You are defenseless against a man larger and stronger than you are. Both you and I are defenseless against someone the same size as we are, but hopped up on drugs. 90% of all women are defenseless against a man of any size. 99% of all elderly folks (those 70 and older) are defenseless to the average person. etc.



Nobody had to pass a background check to become large or muscular. Nobody that I know of had to pass a background check to learn boxing, martial arts, etc.



Spend some time in a shooting range. It isn't full of rednecks or the typical stereotypical gun owner. It is people in wheelchairs, senior citizans, women, men, etc. people like you and I.



It isn't about carrying a gun to be a bad ass.



It is about not being a victim.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I think KL is trying to say that a gun isn't some "magic bullet" (pun intended) that makes the world a safer place, nor does it assure one won't be a victim. Likewise, it seems he is saying that to many a gun provides a "false sense" of security.



Security implies control, and as all the learned folks know, control is an illusion. Thus, by the transitive property, security is also an illusion.



TJR

 

[Jacob Dryer]

It is amazing to me how every gun post turns into this...

 

[Kevin Lang]

TJR, thanks. That's exactly what I'm saying.



Caymen, why are you 100% defenseless against someone stronger and larger than you, when you aren't packing? There are far more variables to consider for your defense than you simply being armed.



Richard L, it is about courage. Caymen is even saying that he'd draw on an unarmed assailant, which is has some serious courage issues, and that is instant jail time in many states for a reason. :smile0008:



JDBoxes, it's because guys touting that their firearm is their only line of defense gives all firearm owners a bad name. If your gun is your only line of defense, then if you feel threatened, you're going to draw your piece? Anti-gun zealots have a field day with statements like that

 

[Tom Schindler]

Caymen is even saying that he'd draw on an unarmed assailant, which is has some serious courage issues, and that is instant jail time in many states for a reason.

I said that? When?





Tom

 

[Kevin Lang]

Caymen, you say you are defenseless against a stronger adversary, except when you are armed.



You CC, so clearly you are armed most of the time you are out.



So if an unarmed guy comes and wants to match his fist to your face, from what you've said, either you're gonna let a dude beat on you, or you're going to draw your piece to scare him off or shoot him, failing that.



I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that anyone who is an American would just let himself get pummeled when he still had something constituting a defense, meaning you'd draw....though shooting an unarmed assailant without some seriously extenuating circumstances is really very low. And the first rule of the gun is not to point it at anything you do NOT intend to shoot.