Did we get him?

[Richard L]

KL,

I guess one could read anything into someone's speach, especially if you don't like the man. I think that attitude blinds people to any good that has been done, and only assumes there was some alterior motive.



The raid was carried out by an elite group of senior Navy SEALs known only as Team-6. Their names and faces are unknown to the public...and obviously, that works for them, and that's just the way it is.



As for the intellgence value of the computer hard drives and documents: The intelligence community is pouring over them and I am sure they will find more than Bin Laden's Facebook friends or if he made his mortgage payments and paid his electric bill on time..lol The fact that Bin Laden felt so secure in his compound with only a handful of body guards, while the Packistani military training center was just down the road. He certainly let his guard down and violated a lot of security issues...the major one that stayed in that house for over 6 months.



I think there will be some references to the cells even if it is only a thin thread. Remember that we got Bin Laden because one of the Gitmo terrorist mentioned the name of Bin Ladens most trusted courier. Then it took years before they heard him talking on a cell phone and were able to pinpoint his residence so they could watch his movements. And it was he who unknowingly led them to Bin Laden.



If the US intelligence agencies can locate Bin Laden on such a fragment of information, imagine what they can get out of Bin Laden's computer data and documents that where found in the house??



I say, don't rain on Obama's parade just because you don't like him...because it also rains on the parade of the Navy SEALS... They know they got the job done even though their names may never be known nor their photos published in the media. I'm sure some of that is for their own safety and security and for their families.



...Rich

 

[Kevin Lang]

He certainly let his guard down and violated a lot of security issues...the major one that stayed in that house for over 6 months.

It's hard to move a decrepit old man around, especially when he reportedly had to be tethered to a dialysis machine. Especially when he had a 25 million dollar bounty on his head, and is wanted in most every country in the world. This is a load off of the terrorists' shoulders. (His demise.)



So, how long until we use this to bring all the troops home so Obama can fulfill his campaign promise? With "the objective" in the Middle East now "completed", the voting public is becoming more receptive to the notion that "we're done over there". I'm even hearing this from people who should know better.

I say, don't rain on Obama's parade just because you don't like him.

The point is that Obama shouldn't be having a parade. He did worse than nothing; he admitted to delaying the killing of Bin Laden in that speech of his. President GW Bush didn't behave like this when Saddam was captured and killed on his watch.



I'm not railing against Obama because I don't like him, such a petty act would be almost as deplorable as Obama's actions in the wake of this killing. Those deplorable actions are why I'm vexed. If GW Bush had done the same antics at the capture & execution of Saddam, I'd have been equally vexed, if not moreso.

 

[Les]

It's hard to move a decrepit old man around,

He was only 54.

 

[Kevin Lang]

He was only 54.

54 years old is ancient in a country where the average life expectancy is 66.9 years. (Pakistan)



Especially when he also had failing body parts & was living outside of civilization & the longevity that brings.

 

[Rick Kent]

54 years old is ancient in a country where the average life expectancy is 66.9 years. (Pakistan)



Especially when he also had failing body parts & was living outside of civilization & the longevity that brings.

He inherited $80 million when his father died and was living for the last 6 years in a house, with a roof, floors, toilets and running water, in a city, across from a pharmacy.....



Better than our military is living in the desert.



Where is the confirmation he had failing body parts? Rumored he had kidney issues way back when but it was never substantiated.



I wouldn't put him in the same category as some tribal member living in the high mountains without modern medicine.

 

[Bill V]

CLANDESENT! I wont trust anyone that is purposefuly clandesent. The fact is, he has been since the conventions. The nation knows it.

Eddie, I don't trust anyone who is descended from the Klan either. (By the way, the Klan spells it with a 'K', and descent has a 'c'.) But of all the outrageous things I've heard people accuse Obama of, this is the first time I've ever head anyone claim he was of Klan descent. Where in the world did you get that ridiculous idea? It's even more outrageous than all the birth certificate nonsense.



Now, if you were to say that you and/or KL were of Klan descent--now that just might be believable...

 

[Richard L]

KL,

So now you sound like we should take pitty on bin Laden. Perhaps we should have captured bin Laden, brought him to the US, put him on Medicare, set him up in the Mayo Clinic, and treated him for his Kidney issues and nursed him back to health.



The bastard is dead, and I have no sympathy for him, and I don't feel many other Americans do either.



Everything you are complaining about is Obama getting it done when Bush and Clinton failed. Talk about partisian politics??? You don't have to vote for him, but you seem to be afraid that he will get reelected because he got bin Laden. With the election almost over a year away, this will soon be forgotten and our attention will turn back to the economy, joblessness, and the cost of gasoline.



...Rich

 

[Kevin Lang]

So now you sound like we should take pitty on bin Laden. Perhaps we should have captured bin Laden, brought him to the US, put him on Medicare, set him up in the Mayo Clinic, and treated him for his Kidney issues and nursed him back to health.

Don't put false words in my mouth. Pray don't impose your ignorance upon me (yet again). I know it's hard for you, but please try.

You don't have to vote for him, but you seem to be afraid that he will get reelected because he got bin Laden. With the election almost over a year away, this will soon be forgotten and our attention will turn back to the economy, joblessness, and the cost of gasoline.

Here's an example of the aforementioned ignorance :banghead:

 

[Richard L]

KL,

All of your fears about Obama are unfounded and cannot be substanciated. You simply don't like him and in your mind can only have alterior motives for everthing he does.



I don't care for him either, but I will give him credit when he does something I think was done right. He could have just ignored the intelligence and did nothing, or he could have rushed in with a decision to bomb the compound months ago, and prehaps bin Laden would not be home then, and we would have never known if we got him.



Remember how many times we dropped bunker-buster bomb on Bagdadh because there was an informant or rumor that Saddam was hiding there...All false and worless intelligence.



He got it right and now he is accused of delaying, or doing it for political motivation. Damn, what's a guy have to do to please you! The majority of the country thinks it was a good thing and could care less if there was any delay on the part of Obama...he got the job done, and that's what counts. If he tries to make it political ammunition for his reelection he will be riddiculed much like G W Bush was for saying "Mission Accomplished".



...Rich

 

[TrainTrac]

@Bill V: If you look at the context of Eddie's statement, I think he means to say clandestine, because as I said to Richard L earlier in this thread:

I think Eddie is referring to the fact that President Obama, until a few weeks ago, refused to publicize his birth certificate and put the whole issue to rest. That, and also the fact that he ordered all of his academic and passport records sealed as well.



Compare that with just about every other Presidential candidate in modern history who has made their academic and other records public during the campaign. And recall that there was a stink made over McCain's eligibility because he was born in the Panama Canal zone.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

As a person that carries a security clearance, rest assured, the FBI knows everything about us. If Obama was illegal, it would have been exposed.

Elected officials may have security clearances, but it is only because they are elected by the people. Sadly, many of the people running our country wouldn't qualify to join our military, because they wouldn't pass the security screening. Many more would require waivers - exception to policy. Drug use and DUI would have caused problems for the last three people holding the office of POTUS.



I personally believe that all federal officials should be held to the same standard as our military. It would cause a bit of chaos in the beginning as the bad ones are weeded out, but in the end we would have a better government.

 

[Les]

You don't have to vote for him, but you seem to be afraid that he will get reelected because he got bin Laden. With the election almost over a year away, this will soon be forgotten and our attention will turn back to the economy, joblessness, and the cost of gasoline.

Here's an example of the aforementioned ignorance

This very subject was discussed last night and it appears what Rich says is basically true. Many Presidents have experienced a "bump" in popularity following an event such as this. Roughly 9% points that is short lived and forgotten by election time. Bush senior had a bump following his war and he lost the next election.

 

[Richard L]

For all the folks who think the President must publish a copy of his birth certificate for the public to view, you are all dead wrong!



I have never seen where any previous President was required to publish his birth certificate or passport records for public consumption. I don't even know if there is some agency of the government that officially checks on the birth records of Presidential candidates? Perhaps the candidates fill out a form about their personal history, and the FBI does a preliminary background check to verify that the person is eligible to be a candidate for President.



I recall were John McCain's eligibility came under question because he was born Panama (Canal Zone). It was explained that, children born on military bases to US Military personnel serving overseas are deemed to be born on American soil, are granted the same citizenship and birth rights of any American born citizen.



As for the FBI, NSA, Secret Service, CIA, etc knowing everything about you...that may or may not be true. They only keeps files on people of interest. If you were not under suspicion for anything, committed any crimes, or you not a politician or some kind of VIP, they don't keep files on you.



If you apply for a security clearance, you must fill out a Statement of Personal History, where you must give such info as to your date and place of birth, where you went to school where you lived over the past 20 years or more, list your parents names, siblings, and friends, and some other known relatives and where they live.



Depending upon what level of security you are applying for, the various agencies will verify the information you provided. If they see big gaps in your history, they may dig deeper. And yes, they will often go to your friends and other people who know you to find out what kind of person you are...I know they went to vist my best friend and his mother asking about me when I applied for a Top Secret clearance.



Even after you get a security clearance, about every 5 years you must update your Statement of Personal History with new addresses, new friends, etc.



It takes a lot of manhours to create files about people if they don't provide a Statement of Personal History. If the various agencies think you might have a shaddy background, they have to compile this information without making you or any of your friends aware that they may be investigating you. So if you have never been in the military, requested a security clearance, never been arrested, or never been involved with any groups that might have been brought to the attention of the FBI, NSA, etc, they probably don't have any files on you.



I know there were all kinds of files on various individuals (Like the Kennedy's) that J Edgar Hoover kept for his personal use...which sounded suspiciously like blackmail...lol



...Rich

 

[H D]

I personally believe that all federal officials should be held to the same standard as our military. It would cause a bit of chaos in the beginning as the bad ones are weeded out, but in the end we would have a better government.

That wouldn't be a very representative government. This suggestion flies in the face of our republican culture. I'm not saying I don't think it would be a good thing, though.



I filled out a book about myself when I applied for the Secret Service. Apparently, there was a chapter they didn't like because I'm not whisking Michelle Obama around the country to chide fat kids.



My dad had to do an extensive security clearance (I'm not sure what his level is) to work in the F22 program at Lockheed. He's been with Lockheed over 25 years and gone through multiple security clearances, but the last one he said was ridiculous. He had to do research and report on the history of family members he never even knew.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Hugh,



How representative do you think our government is today? They seem like a lot of rich people with no real concept of reality to me. Of course, some of them are well educated. Heck the last two Presidents graduated Harvard. What did that get us? Three wars and the second worst financial crisis in US history.



:soap:

 

[H D]

I don't disagree with you, it just seems too blatantly restrictive to fit the American culture.



Similarly, would you support increased minimum qualifications for president, like required minimum education (probably a college degree of some level)?



Perhaps we could have a maximum personal wealth that does not exceed a certain amount above the average American. That would give the power to the everyday man, in theory.



These kinds of things just can't happen in our country, because we like the rhetoric that tells every child they can be anything they want, including president.



:back2topic:I can't believe people want to actually see the pictures of him dead. That is absurd to me. I am skeptical of my government, as I think anyone should be, but that is just dangerously skeptical. Sometimes you have to have a little trust.



If we showed the pictures to the world, the extremists and some non-extremists would use it as fuel to the anti-American cause and further violent jihad. Just accept that he is dead, keep the pictures out of the public and make the extremists prove that he is alive. The burden of proof can work both ways.



I suspect Obama realizes this and will approach this issue in much the same way he has his birth certificate. Let the skeptics become conspiracy theorists until proven otherwise.

 

[Richard L]

Nelson,

How representative do you think our government is today? They seem like a lot of rich people with no real concept of reality to me. Of course, some of them are well educated. Heck the last two Presidents graduated Harvard. What did that get us? Three wars and the second worst financial crisis in US history.

Amen, and very well said. I agree with you 100%. I do think education is a critical factor for good government, however the emphasis today is on money, and how much money you can raise for your political party and campaign. That's why I strongly support getting private and corporate money/donations out of the political campaign finances. That's the only way we can get special interest groups from buy our elections and politicians.



...Rich

 

[Johnny O]

Govt sounds like they're trying to backtrack now and say they didn't kill him too badly. Gotta love Democrats, apologizing for doing the right thing.

 

[Les]

Obama is not going to release the pictures.

 

[Richard L]

JohnnyO,

I don't see any backtracking? More details are coming out now as the individual Navy SEALS are being debriefed and more details are being compared and clariied.



...Rich