Half-Hour Wait at Chic-fil-A Today

[Thomas Rogers]

Hugh,



Go ahead, have your religious convictions, have your religious definition of what a marriage is. But, you and others that don't support gay marriage or that otherwise block or have the opinions that you do are keeping gays from have the same rights as you.



You can say you support civil unions, and you can say that you support gay rights, but you can't say those things and have that make any real difference while our government (at all levels) and our various institutions have laws, policies, regulations and what not that are difference between single and married people.



Our government, its institutions and various organizations and corporations in this country recognize the term "marriage" and give different perks, etc for it. That is just the way it is. Not all such entities recognize and support civil unions to the same degree the do marriage.



So, bottom line, in this country, with its seeming need at so many levels to give different services, benefits, etc to those that are "married", there can be no real equal rights until gays are allowed in every state to marry *OR* all states, local govt, agencies and all those entities that recognize and treat differently marriage must also support in the exact same manner "civil union", and all states, etc must allow civil union.



The much easier solution is to allow gays to marry.



A gay marrying doesn't change the definition of Christian marriage, anymore than a homosexual changes the definition of a heterosexual.



There is no equal rights without gay marriage...or said differently, the easiest quickest way to equal rights is to allow (remove all bans on) gay marriage.



Again, the same people that recently took off the white hoods and stopped using the Bible to try to convince others that blacks can be separate but equal are very, very hard to tell apart from those today that use the Bible and their believes to say the same about gays and marriage...that civil unions, though different, are just as good, and equal...they are essentially saying: My convictions make me the authority on what should be best, well, "good enough" for you.



Pretty sad when we live in a country in which others must fight so that those that would lose nothing by doing so will simply *GIVE* to others that which they already have and enjoy for free!



It's like gays are dying of thirst, parched, and there is free rain falling all over the place, on everyone, and there are those that are going out of their way to hold an umbrella over the gays to keep them from getting what they and others are enjoying...for free.



Why go out of your way to keep someone from getting something that will benefit them, will cost you nothing for them to get, and won't in any way harm you?



Only answer I see is: Because I have been taught that they shouldn't have it because they are different than us!



TJR

 

[doug brandin]

and God said; " Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination. Leviticus 18:21 Old Testament KJV

................the men...........men burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly......................Romans 1:27 KJV. New Testament.

God doesn't change his mind. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Doughly,



Yeah, God's word is still good. If I were single I could be married by the end of the day. All I have to do is rape a virgin then pay her father the modern-day equivalent of 50 shekels.

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

-- Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Also, note the part about divorce and the repeat discussions in the Bible regarding divorce...yet it is commonplace today, with so many devote Christians getting divorce and their priests and pastors even telling them it is okay...it is what God would want for them.



The Bible and what it says doesn't change, but *ABSOLUTELY* what man takes from it and acts from within it changes over time..it has, it always will, I suspect, and sometimes for the worse, but I submit mostly for the better.



Tomorrow's Friday...anyone eating meat?



Anyone working on Sunday? If so, be careful your neighbor doesn't kill you. The Bible says he must if you do.



So much for God's word still being valid, today, unchanging over time. Again, the words don't change, the scripture doesn't change, and there is value in it all from a context point of view...but if you start grabbing at scripture, line, by line, passage by passage to justify your life, then you become a buffet line Christian, and you will ultimately have to abandon more of the Bible than you use.



How about just focus mostly on the biggies... love one another, judge not lest ye be judged, treat thy neighbor as thyself, etc....



Those are the ones that if truly followed by all today would assure that gays were allowed to marry.



TJR

 

[Jerry Gerner 2]

O boy, this site is turning into the Middle East. Lol. If you guys start sending spam blogs or virus-filled links I'm out. :rofl::btddhorse:nline:

 

[H D]

TJR, did you even read my post at all? Seriously, did you truly read it? Let me pull something out for you that I think you may have missed:

Should it come to a vote in my state, I will be on the side of the Constitution and vote yes for equal rights for all U.S. citizens. That would not contradict my Christian beliefs as God never instructed me to ensure His commands are manifested through earthly law. It is very insulting to tell me that my religious convictions are wrong, though.

How am I denying rights to anyone? I clearly stated I would vote yes on a marriage amendment.



You said:

Again, the same people that recently took off the white hoods and stopped using the Bible to try to convince others that blacks can be separate but equal are very, very hard to tell apart from those today that use the Bible and their believes to say the same about gays and marriage...that civil unions, though different, are just as good, and equal...they are essentially saying: My convictions make me the authority on what should be best, well, "good enough" for you.

This is incredibly insulting and bigoted and I briefly touched on that as well.



Christian marriage is a covenant before God. Homosexuals cannot make that covenant with God as He does not support it. Take that up with God if you must but do not give me your holier than thou crap.



Civil unions, legal marriage, whatever you want to call it, should be granted to anyone so choosing in this country. I never claimed it erodes heterosexual marriage or any of the lame talking points you want to spout off about.



I really don't think you read my post. That, or you just want to rattle off your bigoted, elitist views about what my Christian faith should look like.

 

[EddieS'04]

TJR,



We dont live by the law that moses gave(some of the Old testament). Even the hebrews have droped much of it.

As a Christian I try to live by the 10 comandments and the teachings Of Christ.

Yes the New testament still talks of some of the Old. Christ taught us how to love those people. But we dont have to hang around with them. Just respect that they were also Gods creation. Im not their personal judge.



Christ thaught me to love and accept everyone. When it comes to gays or some other folks. I treat them with respect as Christ would. Im more than willing to sit and converse with them, and respect them, as I would my mother. If they will allow me. I just dont have to accept what they do.

They need to accept my beliefs, without argument. Dont tell me I behind times, and not enlightend. We have had radicals in the church, but there actions are wrong and not Christ like.





Rich,

You are totaly right on. there are gays in the church, government, medical breakthroughs, etc.

I say God bless them if what they do is bettering society. I have my beliefs of what is wrong. But we do have constitution that has not been used to its full extent, for equal rights for all. Shame its not. What I see is it is rooted in religion(as many other countries are). There are things not writen. That mankind has used their own selfish Ideology of the unwritten parts.

Two of the worst that were read between the lines, that were wrong. Was slavery and what we did to native Americans. That was created by so called selfisf religous men,and sefish non-religous men. For their own gain. IMO, it was their big$$$$$$ that built this massive country. They still own it. For the most of us our part was, we were the labor.



IMO, give the equal rights. Let me to continue to believe and teach, what I believe.

In the end It will be God the Creator that will be the judge of each and every soul.

Im glad I dont have to do it.



I say to you brothers on this board, Be Blessed

 

[H D]

Removed for irrelevance to the subject.

 

[H D]

Funny that Eddie and I are the two defending the Christian stance on homosexuality yet we both profess to love the people.



We get called bigots, behind the times, unenlightened, under-cover racists with a new hatred (where in the world does that come from?) and yet we haven't said a harsh word about any individual.



We have not said a harsh word about any person or group of people. I think the hatred is toward Christians. I don't try to pull the persecuted Christians thing, but its starting to get hard to ignore. We are still the majority. It should not be allowed. The Bible is not to be worked out through legislation but I will not let people call me names and thinly veiled accusations of being a racist or bigot.



TJR, you are obviously bigoted toward Christians. Simple as that. You hate that I have convictions that are not the same as yours so you attack me with not so cleverly hidden attacks on my beliefs. It's arrogant and elitist at best.

 

[EddieS'04]

Thanks Hugh,

You put it into words that are in my heart. I just have trouble, when I need the scriptures, to explain.



Eddie

 

[Gavin Allan]

I kind of think TJR and Hugh are in more agreement than disagreement.



Hugh, I was with you 100% until you said that God created homosexuality. I don't see that God created homosexuality, but He did create the person with free will. While I am not totally convinced that homosexuality is a sin, I do know that the homosexual is loved by God just as much as a heterosexual or a polysexual or asexual person. I suspect homosexuality was more of a creation of Satan because I have never met a homosexual person who didn't wish he was hetero. Many homosexuals are very comfortable in how they were made, but they also suffer badly because of how they were made- I doubt that anyone would wish to have this suffering. However, I am in agreement with you that any sin is sin, and it does no good to point and pick at one sin of another when we are all sinful. There is also several Biblical scholars who are pretty much convinced that the Apostle Paul may have been a homosexual. He talks many times about his "affliction".



The problem is that of the definition of marriage. Folks in church are wedded, but they are married in civil ceremonies? I have no problem with churches being more restrictive based on their beliefs, but government cannot discriminate against anyone regardless of their faith, orientation, etc. We need to fix the civil rights violations in government/laws. That is the problem.



As for the chicken. I would support Chick-fill-a's right to its beliefs and free speech. I also support the gays in their anger. However, I think McDonald's Southern Chicken Sandwiches are better and they are also much cheaper.

 

[Robert Thomas]

I went to Church 42 years ago. They married me. It turned out alright, but, I haven't been back since. I went to the chic-fill-a, one time, and didn't like the chicken I haven't been back.



I might go back to church one day and I might go get some chicken, if I'm real hungry.

 

[TrainTrac]

I find it sad and frightening that folks seem to be more upset about a man's personal views than the fact that some gov't officials are using (or threatening to use) the force of gov't to interfere in the private affairs of a citizen/private business by preventing the opening of that business in their city.



Who give's a rat's @$$ about who's marrying whom? It's far more disturbing to me (and should be to anyone else who believes in liberty, freedom, and in this case, the First Amendment) that the mayors of Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, and other gov't officials in Philadelphia and Washington D.C. have threatened to use the force of gov't to prevent Chik-Fil-A from operating in their locales. The ironic part is the common thread amongst all of these gov't officials: They're all members of the Democrat party (the supposed champions of tolerance, diversity, enlightenment, free speech, etc. :banghead And their propagandist minions in the press were quick to jump all over this and make a mountain out of a mole hill without disclosing all the facts in the matter. They just reported what fit their agenda to get the dumbmasses all stirred up over nothing. This is yet another example of the left's (gov't officials and media) strategy of "Bread & Circuses" to distract the uninformed public away from real issues.



While they demagogue CFA's CEO for his personal views, at no point whatsoever has anyone been able to present a shred of evidence showing where CFA has discriminated against any customer, employee, or anyone else for that matter because of their beliefs. Nor does Cathy say that he is trying to force his beliefs on others who may disagree with him.



How many people even read the original interview with Cathy around which this $h!+$torm was started? Here are a few quotes:

He drives Chick-fil-A's efforts to provide genuine hospitality, ensuring that customers have an exceptional dining experience in a Chick-fil-A restaurant. Based on Matthew 5:41, Cathy is on a mission to provide customers with "second-mile" service -- exceeding even the highest expectations of a typical fast-food restaurant.



"We don't claim to be a Christian business," Cathy told the Biblical Recorder in a recent visit to North Carolina. He attended a business leadership conference many years ago where he heard Christian businessman Fred Roach say, "There is no such thing as a Christian business."



"That got my attention," Cathy said. Roach went on to say, "Christ never died for a corporation. He died for you and me."



"In that spirit ... [Christianity] is about a personal relationship. Companies are not lost or saved, but certainly individuals are," Cathy added.

And the portion of the interview that started all of this:

Some have opposed the company's support of the traditional family. "Well, guilty as charged," said Cathy when asked about the company's position.



"We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that.



"We operate as a family business ... our restaurants are typically led by families; some are single. We want to do anything we possibly can to strengthen families. We are very much committed to that," Cathy emphasized.



"We intend to stay the course," he said. "We know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles."

The irony is that much like other fake controversies stirred up by liberals in gov't and the media it's simply resulted in tons of free advertising and increased revenue for CFA, who's laughing all the way to the bank!:bwahaha:



The bottom line in this case is that people should be outraged at gov't interfering with a private business.:angry: If you happen to disagree with the man's views, then vote with your wallet and don't eat there.



Link to the full, original interview with/article about Dan Cathy, CFA CEO:

 

[TrainTrac]

A bit more irony and hypocrisy:

Proving what a hypocrite Rahm Emanuel (Chicago Mayor) is:

 

[EddieS'04]

I might go back to church one day and I might go get some chicken, if I'm real hungry.

redfish,

Just dont go for chicken with the pastor. He always' gets first choice and the best peice.:bwahaha:

 

[Richard L]

For all those who like to interject passages from the Bible into their arguments, here is something to think about:



1 The Bible was not written by God. The Bible was written by man with all his prejudices during a very violent time in the history of mankind. The Bible is a compilation of many conflicting writings by many different Middle Eastern tribes and people who lived perhaps 1000+ years before Jesus, and some people who walked and talked with Jesus. Many of these people we dont really know that much about. The first Bible was believed to have been written between 60 an 200 years after Jesus was crucified. The ancient languages of the Bible were first translated into an ancient form of Greek before it was ever translated to other languages. To this day theologians and Biblical Scholars still argue about many differences in translations from one language to another. In many cases, there is no exact translation for some words and some words have been incorrectly translated.



2. Words from holy scriptures of every religion are often taken out of context and given erroneous interpretations to fit someone agenda. Thus people often quote the Bible to point out someone elses sins and indiscretions by not following the word of God, but tend to overlook their own sins and indiscretions as if their sins are less significant than others..How about, Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.



3. Why does Gay Marriage cause you so much concern? If they have gay sexual relations, the will probably be doing that in the privacy of their bedroom and is none of your business. They will probably be doing that whether they are legally married or not, just like heterosexual couples do? Marriage just confirms the legal and financial commitment between those two people, and does not involve you or anything you do. I can certainly support any church or religion from sanctioning or performing gay marriages, but civil marriages are legal in most states and the government should not discriminate. If you object to gay marriages based on religious grounds, the government should not since that would be a violation of Separation of Church and State. If that premise were followed, we dont need any law to make gay marriage legal.



4. Too many people who profess to be religious use their religious beliefs to object to what others may be doing. Others may not share your beliefs but that does not give you the right to shove your beliefs down someones throat or to deny them their right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, just because it may contradict your interpretation of the Bible.



Rich

 

[Bud Williams]

"Can't we all just get along?"

Rodney King



:bwahaha:

 

[EddieS'04]

The Bible was not written by God. The Bible was written by man with all his prejudices

Rich,

That is the answer from all that have no belief in a Creator. Most of all the holy Spirit. I find some parts of the bible hard to explain and understand why. For one some of the bible is historical. Some is moral instrution. But that doesnt discount. The fact that true believers have had an experiance. others came by accepting by faith. Not some made up thing from a rich televangelist being a showman..

I have had one myself. Thats why I dont drink and drug for over 24yrs. The spirit of God holds the burden off temtation. Truthfully I have that addictive nature, as Hugh spoke of.



Yes there are many that stoped with out Jesus. If you get to know most of them. They are dry drunks. Their character is the same. No change in who they are.



Icould care less if some think Im crazy or full of imagination. God speaks to me daily. His Holy Spirit within me gives guidence. Yes sometimes I do it my way. Then it is a mess. When I follow it is not. The Holy Trinity is real. I cant give it to you. Comes by faith. Im not a fire and brimstone person at all. I just know there is a truth of a great judgement coming. Who knows what heaven and hell really is. The question to all is which one do you choose. This body is a shell. We will live forever.



If I was to give my complete testamony here on this board. That revaeled Jesus the mesiah.

Most would think Im crazy and making it up. Plus this is not the place to reveal. What scoffers and some believers would be jealous of. Christ called it not spilling your pearls.

 

[Richard L]

Eddie,

That is the answer from all that have no belief in a Creator.

Not true...Most Theologians and Biblical Scholars will quickly state that the Bible was written by men...and a lot of them. They are testifying to what God said, or what others claimed he said, even though they may not have heard it directly. Scholars also will admit that there are many differing views and disagreements on the translations and interpreting of many of the passages of the Bible.

f I was to give my complete testamony here on this board. That revaeled Jesus the mesiah. Most would think Im crazy and making it up.

That is probably true, but the men who wrote the Bible probably had similar extraordinary experiences....and that is all we have to go on. We either believe them or we don't.



I don't claim that the Bible is untrue, my comments were directed to those who quote scripture to cast someone or some group as sinners, when we are all sinners. Only God can say if my sins are worse than their sins. Some of those who felt they were more connected to God and claimed to want to lead us were far bigger sinners than we are... I am referring to those like Jimmy Swaggert, James Baker, Jim Jones, Robert Tillton, and others who use religion for financial gain. And even Rev. Jesse Jackson who uses religion and racism to shakedown business to contribute money to his Rainbow Coalition...which ends up in Jesse Jackson's pockets.



Most of the clergy are honest, God fearing men who believe they can help us, but then there are so many hypocrites who twist the Bible with their own interpretation, for their own financial gain.



I certainly do not wish to offend you or anyone's religious beliefs...only that everyone has different beliefs and not all good men are Christians, and not all evil men are Atheists.



....Rich

 

[Thomas Rogers]

To expound on RichardL's thoughts above, the way any learned person would see things, Christian or not, is as follows (IMHO):



- Bible written by man and inclusive of his bias and agendas? Unrefutably true!



- The Bible the inspired Word of God? A matter of faith!



- The red words in the Bible the authoritative statements of Jesus? No one can be sure, but highly doubtful so still a matter of faith.



- Man's interpretation of the Bible and his beliefs, morality and actions thought history? Fluid, ever changing, ever evolving.



Note that all of the above is not meant as an attack on the Bible, on Christianity or one's belief, but is simply the way a majority of learned people, including Christians, think of these things.



Remember, in the '50s and earlier Gen 9 was used to explain and to support racism, segregation, and the subjugation of blacks, and if you read it you can easily see how and why.



So, it is not a stretch for me or others to post the similarity between that, then, and this, now.



TJR

 

[Mark K 2]

If Bob, the owner of Bob's Barber Shop, made a statement about gay marriage while cutting someone's hair, one would easily make the jump and say, "Bob's Barber Shop hates gay marriages."



So why do so many people say that if the CEO of Chick-Fil-A, a privately-owned family business makes the same statement, it DOESN'T reflect the views of Chick-Fil-A? I think it does.



With that in mind, why does a fast food change even need the make a stand on same sex marriage?