Hand Gun Question

[Kevin Palmer]

Have a friend who is looking for a hand gun for his wife.



Though I know a good amount weapons in general, felt input from you would be helpful.



She is medium from as far as height but in well above average physical shape. Runs like 7 miles a day plus works out.



She is upper 40's and commutes through some "shady" areas.



Though money is not a crucial concern, if you have some price input it would be appreciated as far as the approximate cost of the hand gun you suggest.



Thanks in advance...

 

[heent]

Recommendations would vary depending on intended use...CCW?...mainly left in vehicle for commuting purposes?...planning to jog 7 miles with it daily?



For self-defense, you generally always want to have the largest caliber you would feel confident you could fire under duress.



Athleticism doesn't necessarily equate to a lack of fear of recoil (i.e. she may have the strength to handle a .357mag or .45ACP, but not be comfortable enough with the recoil to hit a target consistently).

 

[Bill Barber]

If she is Buff. S&W model 29, 8 inch barrel, 44 mag, thats what my wife packs in her car.

and she knows how to use it.

If she ever uses it, will not be at a target, will be one shot, right thru the chest, done deal.

 

[Martin]

Bill......whatever you do, don't piss off your wife

 

[Michael Cacioppo]

most firearm confrontations are at about 5-10 feet and usually about 2 to 3 shots are fired. The minimum stopping power I would recommend is a .380 although smaller calibers still hurt a lot. If your carrying a small frame is better than a large frame because of faster access and weight. 9mm is a popular and formidable for stopping power albeit not as good as a .40, .357, .45, 10 etc. Whatever you pick make sure that the user is comfortable with its feel and handling. Since your life may depend on it get a quality firearm.

 

[Dave S 2]

Call me old school but, I still believe a revolver x 38 cal is the best personal carry weapon. Depending on where she carries it, I would definately suggest it have a shaved hammer like this one. Pulling it out of a purse, pocket, or belt, the shaved hammer will be a definate advantage.



http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=86945&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15702&isFirearm=Y



I'm not recommending a brand by any means. The S&W link is rather high but it shows what I'm speaking of.



As far as quality to cost ratio, I would suggest this Taurus...



I find it odd Coastie that you are an Air Marshall and asking this ?. Maybe not though.



BTW...If you don't mind, what do you carry while on duty? Is it visible? DO you feel that the Air Marshall's have made a difference?



And yeah, I agree with Mike C's input as well.

 

[Bill Barber]

Fox the wife is always pissed, Mike, a .380 is a pissant round, the intent is to kill, not to hurt.

Is all a matter of hydraulics, saw this in nam many times.

Smack someone dead nuts in the center of the sternum with an M16, you can pick there heart up on the ground behind them.

 

[Gary Kong]

+1 on what MikeC says. I've been carrying on and off duty for over 25 years. I can carry almost any gun I want on or off. On duty I carry a .45 but off duty it's a little .380 Sig P230 or a Smith and Wesson model 36 in .38. For off duty or civilian CCW, if it is big and/or heavy, there will be times when the owner won't feel like carrying it. A light and small gun even with a modest round is better than a cannon left at home.



If I work an off-duty gig or travel in parts unknown I carry a little more firepower (H&K P2000sk) but even that gun is only a 9mm. We drum into our recruits who are eager to buy the biggest, baddest, slickest gun they can for their first off-duty gun:

1. Pick a gun that will likely always work when you pull the trigger, that means a revolver and maybe a Glock.

2. Pick a gun that will work if you have to pass it to someone else who may not be as familiar with it as you...something that will allow them to simply pull the trigger and shoot. Revolver and maybe a Glock.

3. Pick a gun that will not make you look like a bloodthirsty fiend looking for his first kill when you sit in court. A moderate caliber (.38 or .380/9mm) to medium (.45-357). Once again, a revolver and maybe a Glock.

4. Pick a gun that will not tend to accidentally fire while being bounced around or placed /removed into/from a purse, fanny pack, man purse, holster, etc. A revolver, and maybe (less so) a Glock. With the Glock, be SURE to have the heavier trigger installed!!!



Remember, in a SHTF situation even cops panic and forget to release safeties, etc. so you want something that will not require alot of muscle memory training and can be brought to bear in a total chaotic, noisy, dangerous situation when your brain is on overload. A revolver and maybe a Glock.



Cops train all the time and we carry almost all waking hours. I can get away with packing semis, revolvers, "safe-actions" (aka Glock), etc. but a regular civilian generally practices once in a while so the KISS principles apply. For me, I'd get her one of the lightweight Smith and Wesson 5 shot .38 cal. revolvers. Small, (some models) hammer free so no snagging on draw, reliable as a hammer, doesn't impart a Dirty Harry or Rambo persona, affordable, and anyone with fingers can operate it without prior instruction.

 

[CobraXP]

I would recommend a Taurus Millenium Series in a 9mm:



http://www.taurususa.com/products/gunselector-results.cfm?series=MP1



My wife has carried revolvers and also one of my Kimbers, but she loves the feel of the PT111 over them all because of the size and grip. I like it for her not just because it fits her hands well (medium size hands for a woman), but also because it is 12+1 rounds and will also withstand +P ammo (which I make her carry). Thumb flip slide safety on the firing pin. Small, compact, thin, and is easily a physical CCW and also very manageable in a purse.



Average cost should be somewhere around $325 to $350.

 

[Gary Kong]

Hey Coastiejoe,

At one time when I was involved with Air Marshals (back in the old FAA marshal days when lots of cops were deputized as marshals) the F/T marshals carried a Smith revolver with some exotic metalurgy to make them lightweight (long before the currently available Scandium and Titanium revolvers came out) and they had these frangible rounds. Any of those still around? Now THAT would be a cool gal jogger piece!

 

[Rich Stern]

So many variables.



If it's a one gun solution that she wants to have available during running, at home, in the car, I'd say S&W 642 Airweight. If she has typical, middle age eyesight, and can swing the budget for it, getting it with Crimson Trace laser grips is a confidence booster.



If she wants something compact in a semi-auto, a Kahr in 9mm, or 40 S&W, if not recoil shy.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

What about a Ruger LCP? I've been thinking about one for myself, small and slim should be quite easy to conceal.

 

[Tom Schindler]

What about a Ruger LCP?

I like the Ruger LCP, though after holding one, I did not want it. Too small, no safety. If you want to use it, you need to put one in the chamber before you fire.



I carry a Bersa Firestorm .380.

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Small enough to carry, but packs enough power to cause damage. With the right ammo, it will kill a man on the spot.



For my wife, I got her a S&W 642CT. It is a .38 special +P. It is simple to use. Point the gun and squeeze the trigger. No safety to worry about. Nothing to think about. It is double action only. No hammer to catch on anything. In my opinion, simply one of the best CC weapons out there.



In a situation, having the remember to put one in the chamber, turn off the safety, point and shoot could get a woman killed in an instant. With a gun like the 642, she just pulls the gun out and shoots. There is no hammer she needs to think of.



Simplicity is sometimes the best thing to do. A .357 Magnum is a monster. Maybe more than she can handle. A .38 Special is small enough to not hurt, but enough power to knock the guy down.



I got the Crimson Trace grip for Theresa. Putting a laser on a bad guy is enough to scare him away. If the laser is pointing at his chest, there is no doubt where the bullet will hit.



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Tom

 

[Rob T]

the intent is to kill, not to hurt

Bill, this is where you will get life in jail even if you are being attacked. The intent is to shoot only only to the point that you no longer feel threatened. If one shot causes the attacker to turn around and run, then the job is done. If you shoot them in the back, then you will probably find yourself in a new home behind steel bars.

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Dave,

In my life, both in present job as well as 23 years military in front of this job, I have delt with larger hand guns with above average stopping power. More than what is needed in this case.



As I am not familiar with the "smaller" hand guns, that is why I brought the questioon to the board...



And as far as intent goes, no matter the circumstance, you shoot to stop the action. Once the action stops, so do you.



Which means, if I pull my weapon and it accidently goes off but the guy quits robbing the bank as he got scared, the action stopped and you can not shoot him without being liable for the damage done.



That said, if it gets to the point you need to draw and shoot the weapon, you do not shoot to wound either, you are shooting to stop the action, period...



Also, based on your comments, I have put a list of questions together for her and will get back to you here when I get answers..



Thanks...

 

[buzz worth]

Rob.......Huh? If you pull a gun in self defense, your intent is to scare your attacker?



If I feel I have to pull it, I will be the only one left standing to defend myself in court. That's why I took the course and have a permit.....I know where my rights are and have been certified by the state. That goes a long way with authorities.

Ask Plaxico Burress about being able to show training. All would be "good" in his case if he had just had a permit to carry. He would still be a dumba$$ for carrying a Glock in his drawers but it would have been legit.



ss

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

Familiarity and knowledge of operation are just as important as the caliber. A revolver is quick to learn, quick to grab out of a bag. 5-6 rounds.



A semi is good for holster carry as they are typically sleeker, can go 7+1 upto 19+1 (gotta love those new Springfield XDm's!).



A buddy I work with had his wife try out a .38 SPC Revolver and a 9mm Taurus Semi. She's of average build and not terribly familiar with firearms.... they are probably going revolver.



My wife? Revolver? She'll laugh at you. She wants a semi.



Go to a range that you can either rent the models you're looking at or see if a store will let you try one out or find a buddy who has one (in the case of my coworker, our boss happen to have BOTH of the ones they were looking at).



It's hard to pass up a good .38SPC revolver for a go-to-gun. Good mix of power and size. A revolver is virtually guarenteed to go bang everytime, multiple times.

 

[Richard L]

I think a lot of guys are speaking about the macho guns they have or want and not what may be practical for a woman to carry for self-defense.



Many years ago, my wife attended classes for a concealed weapons permit from the state of Texas. We had purchased a nice 38 caliber snubnose revolver for her. In Texas, you get your licenses to carry, for the type of handgun you qualify with. If you qualify with a revolver, you cannot carry an automatic, but if you qualify with an automatic, you can carry either an automatic or a revolver. For obvious reasons, it was recommended that both men an women qualify with an automatic.



It was also recommended that women use small caliber automatics for several reasons.

1. Most women are not accustomed to using handguns and do not carry and handle larger, heavier guns very well.



2. Most women are not as accurate with larger handguns, even with longer barreled revolvers.



3 The most important reason for women to carry automatics is sheer firepower. Even a small 22 caliber automatic can hold 10-12 shots or more. If a woman opens fire on a would-be assailant they will quickly retreat in a hail of bullits, even if they are not hit. Woman are much more accurate and less fearfull when handling a smaller caliber weapon and the automatic gives them a lot of shots to hit or scare off the assailant.



When a man or women is under attack and needs to use deadly force, they are often so nervous that their shots are often inaccurate at best. Having a huge caliber man-stopper bullit means little if you dont hit anything.



The military has moved away from the standard 20 caliber or 7.62 NATO round in favor of the 223 cal. M16 because of the higher rate of fire, as well as the lighter weapon am ammo loads.



Its all about fire-power not stopping power. Many police forces are moving away from the 5-6 shot 38s and 357s to 9mm, 10-12+ shot Sig Saurs, Glocks, Berrettas, etc.



So I woill have to recommend a good quality, small caliber automatic that holds a lot of rounds.



Rich

 

[Johnny O]

I would recommend a Taurus Millenium Series in a 9mm:

That's exactly what I have. My uncle is the gun expert in the family and recommended something light, not too big, and easily concealed. I have three different holsters, depending on what I'm wearing, it doesn't get in the way, and I don't even know it's there. Like now.

 

[TomT]

The heck with stopping power. It's all about what she feels comfortable with and being able to hit what she's aiming at. If she's never really used a firearm then I would stick with a revolver. A 38 would probably be perfect.