How's YOUR Employer Treat YOU?

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen said:

My talent does exceed everyone in my department. I have forgotten more than most of those guys know. Even though my talent does exceed theirs, we still perform the same job, therefore, we deserve the same pay.

And that there, my friend, is the difference between a unionized job that has the worker putting "tops and bottoms" and a job as a professional in a non-union company.



Before you get your panties in a twist, let me explain.



As a professional working most of my life for non-union companies I have counted on and demanded that my compensation reflect NOT ONLY the value I bring to the company in the day-to-day tasks and responsibilities assigned BUT THAT it also reflect my experience, my skills and the flexibility and depth that brings to me as a resource of the company I am working at.



We have this old saying in IT, and it's called "Bench strength"...as in "he brings a lot of strength to our bench". It's a sports term. Some sports figures you pay top dollar just to have them on the bench when you need them.



So, this notion that I should get paid the same as the other guy because we are doing the same job is so foreign to me. Yes, I understand it, and I understand it is entrenched in blue-collar jobs.



But I will ask this: If for such positions people doing the same thing should get paid the same, why is it that there are yearly pay increases? Why is it that the 20 year old kid just hired gets paid a lot less to do a job; the same job; as someone who has been doing it for 25 years? It's the same job, right? I am sure this is happening for many types of jobs.



TJR

 

[A S]

TJR....and when your company finally decides that you are too OLD and EXPENSIVE and replaces you with a fresh college grad....who ya gonna call?

 

[A S]

there are thousands of professionals working at walmart because their jobs are now in India.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

expst03 asks:

TJR....and when your company finally decides that you are too OLD and EXPENSIVE and replaces you with a fresh college grad....who ya gonna call?

No one...because I will understand the issue.



Notice how I said that I "demand" that I get paid based not only on the value I bring in the tasks I do, but also by the value of the skills and the experience I have even if those are on the shelf, in the toolbox, or on the bench?



In other words, I firmly place the responsibility on me to keep my skills sharp, to continue to gain experience so that the value proposition I bring to an employer is so clear that they WANT to pay me top dollar (2x and more than what an entry-level person would make).



So, when that day comes, and it will, that I am not as valuable to a company as my compensation demands dictate, then I will firmly blame MYSELF and not the company...the good news is that I am in control of my value.



expst03 also said:

there are thousands of professionals working at walmart because their jobs are now in India.

Right...mostly the "retreads" and the "Johnny-Come-Latelies" as we call them in the industry; those that left other fields and careers in the late 90's to jump on the "IT Goldrush" bandwagon. Like all gold rushes, that one went bust, and when it did, most of the newcomers left. It was rightsizing.



There is still an overwhelming demand for IT employees in this country...huge.



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

Interesting different viewpoints here.



I think the key is that stereotyping does little good in solving problems.



Apparently not one solution fits all, in all circumstances, and for all people.



All we really know is our own world(s). We can try to extrapolate and understand other persons' worlds, but the filter of our own experiences probably doesn't give a clear picture in nearly any instance.



Yes, I do believe in some black and white "absolutes" too, and believe in some truths that probably are true in most situations.



The key to all of this is having the knowledge to discern what is what. It is easier saying this than having this.



Many of us have highly "judging" personalities. I find that I have to catagorize things in either a "good" or a "bad" category. However, I also know that very little in this world is black and white, so my biggest category is the "gray" category. Since it is difficult to deal efficiently with things in the gray category, it causes much conflict, discussion, and turmoil.



Oh that things were so much easier... (but then what would we do with ourselves?)

 

[2]

ever wonder where the 40 hour work week originated?= UNIONS

ever wonder why you get paid time and a half for overtime?=UNIONS

ever wonder why you make as much as you do...=UNIONS raised the standard of living in this country...it kills me when anti-union people..especially in the south talk anti-union but gladly accept union wages.

ever wonder about your safety on the job?=UNIONS

Hmm, what is a 40 hour week? What is overtime? I am self employed so when there is work to be done I do it, working 12 hour days, when there is no work I am at home doing what I want to do. My job is very weather dependent so I work pretty much all summer and have a good chunk of the winter off. I work in a Canadian industry with very little union activity, an industry that the US relies on heavily.

 

[Gavin Allan]

No one...because I will understand the issue.



Notice how I said that I "demand" that I get paid based not only on the value I bring in the tasks I do, but also by the value of the skills and the experience I have even if those are on the shelf, in the toolbox, or on the bench?



In other words, I firmly place the responsibility on me to keep my skills sharp, to continue to gain experience so that the value proposition I bring to an employer is so clear that they WANT to pay me top dollar (2x and more than what an entry-level person would make).

While I generally believe this to be true, I also remember being young and idealistic and spewing this same kind of idealistic utopian crap. As I get older, I see more of the other side. For example, a good friend of mine was ushered out of his office two weeks ago on Friday by his new boss of 2 months. She helped him pack his office and walked him out the door. He was generously blessed with 2-weeks of severance pay. This guy was an accountant for the company for 26 years, and he worked hard and long hours, and got great evaluations. Guess who took his place last Monday? A nephew of the boss who just graduated with his accounting degree. No experience. I have a few other friends who find that hitting 50-years of age has darn near eliminated any employment opportunities because of the younger workers who will take the job for less money, and who are not a "burden" on the company's health insurance.

 

[Gavin Allan]

I work in a Canadian industry with very little union activity, an industry that the US relies on heavily.

You work at Jason's in Windsor, ON?

 

[Scott Doughtie]

LOL...I have actually been there.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Gavin, that scenario does weigh heavily on my mind as I am in my early 40s...the IT industry equivalent of "an old timer".



Not only that, but I have avoided doing what many in the industry do. I haven't moved my way up the management ladder. Oh, I could have. I was a first-line manager when I worked at IBM within 2 years of being hired. I have managed departments in several of my jobs the past almost 25 years. But I never went into middle or upper management.



I just never wanted to remove myself from the technology and the learning. I like that.



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

Gavin, that scenario does weigh heavily on my mind as I am in my early 40s...the IT industry equivalent of "an old timer".

I always thought it was a BS "cop-out" excuse by lazy old workers who got canned, but lately I know of some folks who have run into this, and I am very convinced they were great workers.

 

[2]

You work at Jason's in Windsor, ON

I don't know what that is, but I am guessing strip club or something. Nope, I work in the oil patch.

 

[Mark Grumpy]

The largest union in the world recently disbanded. All its workers were paid the same and finally figured out they were not very well off.



The particular union?? The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. They thought it was a good idea too.

 

[WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs]

Gavin, that scenario does weigh heavily on my mind as I am in my early 40s...the IT industry equivalent of "an old timer".

I just never wanted to remove myself from the technology and the learning. I like that.

You might have an issue now due to that. Your managers probably don't have you on "Inventory" to move into management. And, possibly ranking you lower in the department. I don't know your org chart so I'm shooting from the hip. However, most large corps follow some sort of this business logic. The lower your ranked, I know you know this, makes it easy for them to remove you when job cuts start.



Then it gets harder to find a new job when your competing with younger people that will take a lower salary.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I know, SST, I know. I work for a small corp, though, and have been told I have a management position waiting if/when I want it. But the future is NEVER certain.



TJR

 

[Jose Santana]

for those of you against Unions:

ever wonder where the 40 hour work week originated?= UNIONS

ever wonder why you get paid time and a half for overtime?=UNIONS

ever wonder why you make as much as you do...=UNIONS raised the standard of living in this country...it kills me when anti-union people..especially in the south talk anti-union but gladly accept union wages.

ever wonder about your safety on the job?=UNIONS

EEO problem?=UNIONS

Unfair labor practices?=UNIONS

ya'all bess think twice before you start bashing UNIONS...either you are too young or too ignorant to remember what this country was like...and is becoming again....just wait until immigration really takes hold...and guess what...they will UNIONIZE after they have had enough CRAP



Yea Unions did have a purpose and they did it well but they have outlived thier usefullness and original intent to the point of bankrupting companies and robbing taxpayers.

What has a Union done in the past 25 years?

Better skills - I hear this alot but I say BS... Show me where this is evident.. The Big Dig in Boston?



Unions are full of patronage...... Where you can't get rid of dead weight and everyone is out on disability at onetime or another because they pulled thier back lifting something, which they have all the tools to do it with right but choose to do it manually, or becuase they are 200lbs overweight. They are greedy in times of economic downturn and at the expense of taxpayer money, and they don;t want to contribute crap to thier retirement or health care.

unions also get rid of good hardworkers too often, perhaps workers with new ideas and better education in favor of seniority which is not the best practice. Why get rid of a guy with a 4yr degree and a good workethic hired 2 years ago bringing in new ideas and making things more efficient and cost effective and keep a slouch worker with a GED who collects a paycheck because his dad worked there and got him in at top pay who brings nothing to the table?

joseymack

 

[KentheREALone Z]

Now ladies and gentlemen, you're highjacking my post. This wasn't about unions. It's about how you are treated by your employer.

Start another thread ...:angry:

 

[Jose Santana]

Apologies Ken

My employer treats us fairly.... Of course some things are going to China....

We had a stretch of no raises but we understood.

I have to say I have been promoted and given a raise of 3%, 6% and 5% the past 3 years, above average but it's been a nice stretch..

The ride sucks, taxes, gas, health and dental goes up every year and eats my raises... I contibute 10% pre tax every week for my retirement...

$56 a week for health family

$7 weekly dental

4 weeks vacation a year after 10 years I am at 11years

sick time sucks I think we get like 4 or 5 days a year

10 paid holidays a year



Joseymack

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Josey,



You mentioned sick time and it not being enough.



That made me remember a thread on another website once where a bunch of people were discussing sick time.



I was surprised to find out that many people that work for companies that provide up to x sick days per year actually use it like vacation, and year after year always use those x days.



I'm not talking about flex days, or companies that have policies that lump all paid-time-off into one big pool. Nope, I am talking about sick days. I heard stories about people simply taking the time off to go fishing and calling it a "mental health" day.



Anyway, my opinion was that it is abuse, it is like stealing from the company, and for most companies it cannot be done without actually lying to your employer which would be grounds for dismissal.



So, with regards to Ken's question and sick time (so that I don't hijack), do all you folks think you are given enough, that the policy is clear, and do any of you feel like it is okay to abuse the sick time policy (if it applies)?



TJR

 

[Rick Kent]

So, with regards to Ken's question and sick time (so that I don't hijack), do all you folks think you are given enough, that the policy is clear, and do any of you feel like it is okay to abuse the sick time policy (if it applies)?

As a 17yr employee, on my anniversary date I get 210 sick days per year. They are use 'em or lose 'em. In my time I have used less than 20 sick days, 14 days were the result of pneumonia a few years ago.



We do not have a short term disability plan so this is the way the company handles it.



The policy is very clear and I have found in my management role that many of our employees do abuse the sick leave policy and use it like vacation when they don't feel like working.



I would prefer we bring in our new employees with a PTO bank (permission time off) that covers sick leave and vacation. When you are out of time you go unpaid.



I have said many times to co-workers that we have some of the sickliest 25 year olds on the planet.