How's YOUR Employer Treat YOU?

[Tom Schindler]

I pay nothing for my health and dental coverage. I get a maximum of 4 weeks of vacation and I get NO sick days.

We had a stretch of no raises but we understood.

I bet the CEO got raises though. Ask yourself, who is the sucker?





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Fkent, I assume that is 20 or 21, not 210 sick days per year, right (a typo)?



Also, the "use 'em or lose 'em" mentality is what I am talking about. You can't lose something that isn't given to you. For most companies you are supposed to TAKE sick days only if needed, therefore there is nothing to lose. If you were not sick, you should consider yourself a winner. Yeah!



Anyway, I just wanted to hear what others thought on the subject.



I too like the idea of a PTO bank that lumps together vacation, sick and flex days.



TJR

 

[Rick Kent]

Fkent, I assume that is 20 or 21, not 210 sick days per year, right (a typo)?

No typo, I have 210 sick days each year (they do not accrue) Each year it goes up a few days up to the max of 215 personal sick leave days.



As I said we have no short term disability insurance.



Next year I will hit the max of 215...

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Fkent all I can say is "Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot!"



I would hate anyone in your company with that kind of build up sick days trying to take them all...on purpose.



Consider this...if people didn't abuse sick time (taking it when not needed) there would be no caps or accrual.



TJR

 

[WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs]

I never understood that either. The company I left we would get 21 paid sick days. I think I called in sick 4 times in 8 years.



However, I did find it funny when I would work 12 hours one day and left 4 hours early the next day they used 4 hours of sick time.



Anyway, when I left they paid me 200 hours of vacation time and 20 days of sick time.

 

[Rick Kent]

One of the challenges I deal with on a regular basis is counseling employees over absenteeism.



We have a medical department that gets involved on the 5th consecutive sick leave day. If you are not under a doctors care you will have problems keeping your job in the long run if the pattern persists.



Of course if you are truly sick or injured the coverage is there to use, most people will invoke FMLA to protect the absences up to 60 days.

 

[Richard L]

expst03,

Everything that you said that the Unions gaves us may be true, but there are now laws and agencies like OSHA, and State Labor boards, etc that do all that now.



If the unions are so great, why isn't every occupations or job unionized.



Unions have more to dow with why so many manufacturing jobs are being exported overseas. $25 an hour to start as a UAW union employee at an auto assembly plant. That's for the most part a no-brainer job that you can train a monkey or a robot to do but the union restricts the number of robots and automation in the factories. So we all end up paying a higher price for vehicles while the Japanese are making berter engineered cars and paying their assembly line workers less. There workers are happy and they are not shutting down plants because of poor sales.



2 years ago, GM was loosing an average of about $1600 per every vehicle it sold.



I think you will find that if a company is going to close a plant or cut back on workers, the unions can't do a thing to help you. Just look at what happend to Flint, Michigan about 10 years ago when GM closed their assembly plant. That was the whole jist of Michael Moore's movie "Rodger and me"



We live in a global economy and we need to start thinking more globally. You cannot depend on the government, Social Security, your employer, or the unions to support you when get old or can be replaced by a 20 year old.



...Rich

 

[KentheREALone Z]

Okay, Time off? You want to hear?

I'm in my 30th year of full time employment. Global competition and high US costs eventually closed my 25 year employer (did the Northeast to Southeast to Mexico to China thing). I moved 3 times for them, and said "I'm out" when they wanted Mexico as a permanent solution for me.

My "new" employer (4 years) I'm salaried management?

- I get 5 Personal/Sick days, paid if I don't use them. Last sick day was 1997, just about hospitalized.

- I get two weeks vacation, paid if I don't take it. I've used 1.5 days in four years.

- ST Disability sucks, no long term.

- 401K poor to average

- 8 holidays

- no bonus

- Use my wife's insurance, State Teacher

- But the pay is good.

So me and her, we team. Teacher (non-union) pay sucks, but offset by me. My bennies suck, offset by her.



But I've got a job. And I also live in God's Country.



My prior employer provided outstanding benefits, stock options, great 401K, 6 wks vacation, med., dental, vision, non-contributory pension, just about all of it. But they're out of business.



Complain, no, cause I've been there. You make your own way.

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

Mine's not bad. Of course it's a hospital. I get 7.63 (I know, why not just make it 8 hours) hours of PTO per pay period (every 2 weeks), and 3.56 hours sick per pay period. We are allowed to call off sick 3 times a year. Doesn't matter how many days each time (anything over 2 days requires a Dr. order), just as long as it isn't more than 3 times. Do I call off sick? Yes. But most of the time it's legit. Have I done it just to have a day off? Yes, since we don't lose our sick time. It carries over year after year. Right now I have over 300 hours of sick time saved up.



They match what we put into our retirement fund.



Health bennies are good but the prescription bennies suck.



Non-union here, but I did work at a hospital before this one that we were union. They went on strike right after I left. Pretty much useless since the hospital is able to hire replacements while the strike was going on and the lines were not even allowed on hospital property. I'm not saying unions are bad, some places probably need unions. As for me, I'll never vote for union representation. That's just me.

 

[Scott Doughtie]

Ken...excellent post, of course you started the whole thread. In the end, we are the only ones to blame for the situations that we are in. We are not robots, nor are we supplicants to our jobs, unless we choose to be. We make our own decisions individually and we need to live by the choices we make. Of course, there will always be factions out there that insist on blaming the problems and ills in their lives on everyone else and the working environment in general.



I think we have seen where everyone here sits on the fence. In the end, who knows which alternative will be the right or wrong answer.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Here is the ultimate question. How many of the anti-union guys actually do manual labor?



I am not talking about working in an office running CAT5 cable, nor sitting behind a desk. I know you are working, but I am talking about the "blue collar worker".



You know, they guy that deals with working in hot working conditions where the sweat runs down the crack of his butt until it is raw. The guy that has sore hands and even may be missing a finger or two from an accident at work. The guy that wakes up with numb hands from running a crinder, jackhammer, drill, etc. The guy that suffers from UV burns from welding and burns on his body by molten metal slashing on him. The hard hat wearing man with metatarsal shoes and kevlar gloves.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen, I am not anti-union, I am anti-protectionism.



I suppose you think I am anti-union because I have been critical of unions due to their protectionist tactics.



I have been a union member and I have done quite a bit of manual labor and blue collar type jobs...I have walked in those shoes (see job list in my first post above).



And, yet I am still skeptical and critical... AS SHOULD EVERYONE be. Anything else is drinking the Kool-Aid.



Maybe it is because I have seen how it is on both sides of the fence...in blue and white collar, union and not.



TJR

 

[Gypsy me]

My employer just announced 60 experienced people are losing their jobs in a couple of months...non union. Earlier this year same employer announced that 200 + would lose their jobs different state..that part of the company was union. How did they treat everyone~ Equally. Fair in both cases. Each employee was offered serverance packages, set for Job fairs, and resume writing, interview training classes. Generous IMOP.

 

[2]

Caymen asked:

Here is the ultimate question. How many of the anti-union guys actually do manual labor?

Me, I have to assess my leases for topsoil depth and texture which involves digging at least 25 holes on the lease with my shovel, plus 8 control holes and 2 holes every 100 meters on the access (some access roads are over 1 km). I supervise work being done, but then also help pick the rocks etc. when that needs to be done. So yes, I wear a hard hat, and steel toed boots, fire retardent coveralls, all outside in the heat and the bugs. All the guys on the rigs in Alberta that do back breaking work are non union as well.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

My job is non-union and always will be. I get paid a very fair wage, much of it tax-free, have free medical for myself, and very low premiums for my family. I get 30 days leave/year, and have all national holidays off. My employer has paid the tuition for both my associates and bachelor's degree. I get to travel to exotic places and shop at the company store tax-free.



Downside, I may be sent at a moment's notice to some far away place for an indefenite time. There are people in this World who would kill me on sight, just because of my job.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Olaf,



I do notice you are not as critical about Union labor, or not vocal about it, as others around here.



I am just wondering if there is a pattern of those that bash union members sit behind a desk and complain about the AC not working right.





Tom

 

[2]

Tom, to be truthful I am very anti-union, I just tend to stay out of those conversations. If you like working for a union then kudos to you. I prefer not too. That is the great thing about having both options, people can choose where they want to work.

 

[Richard L]

Caymen,

By their very nature (Labor Unions) they represent people who do manual labor. Most people who do office work are considered "Managment" and therefor exempt from union participation. Manual labor also implies that these jobs a relatively unskilled and anyone physically capable of doing the job can easily be trained to do it, and do it well. This is not to imply that everyone or anyone who does manual labor is less intelligent or neccissarily less educated. I have known a number of people who were well educated, well trained, with college degrees who prefered to work outdoors or doing physical labor rather than sit behind a desk



I don't objects to unions where they are still needed and there are gaps in our laws that some employers will exploit. However, for the most part, in most jobs, they have done about all they can do to provide safety and decent wages and benefits for their workers. A few simple laws passed by Congress could benefit all workers much more than the unions ever could, and would put them out of business.



Now the unions are demanding even higher salaries, more benefits for their members who are often overpaid for the work they are doing now. Paying $25 per hour plus benefits as starting pay for an unskilled UAW assembly plant worker is crazy. In most cases, they job is not physically or mentally demanding. And is not particularly dangerous, at leas not when compaired to a Police Officer or a Firefighter, and surely not as dangerous as military service.



Unions have gotten a bad reputations for not just wanting better salaries and benefits for there members, but they are demanding a bigger share of the profits that the companies make. There are many companies that offer Profit sharing plans to their employees but there is a big difference. I the company makes a bigger profit the employees get more money, however if the union negotiates a salary increase because the company has made a profit, the company cannot retract the pay increase when their profit drops ! Also, the simple fact that the union demands these increases in salary, they are automatically reducing the profit. Payroll costs is often the most significant cost factor that most businesses face.



Obviously, people who a union members will feel the unions are looking out for them. and people who don't belong to unions will not see any benefits to unions and will tend to be more independent minded and willing to lookout for their own future.



There is little or no loyalty or job security in either union or non-union jobs. While unions may offer some protection, there are still no long term guarantees. Non-Union workers know this and will continue to do better on their own while union workers will tend to use the union as a crutch. That may have worked in the past but that crutch cannot hold up the weight much longer.



...Rich.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Paying $25 per hour plus benefits as starting pay for an unskilled UAW assembly plant worker is crazy. In most cases, they job is not physically or mentally demanding. And is not particularly dangerous, at leas not when compaired to a Police Officer or a Firefighter, and surely not as dangerous as military service.


Do you have ANY idea what Toyota pays their employees to build cars? Have you any clue?



About $25.00/hr from what I read in the newspaper a few days ago.



Is Fords labor costs high, or was it bad planning from CEO's? If you do not save money, do not think I will feel sorry for you because you can not make your promisary notes. Instead of saving to pay for pension plans, Ford, GM, and Chrysler decided to give it to CEO's that are the ones that are grossly overpaid. They give it to engineers that are unable to actually design something that fits together. They give it to the bean counters that look beyond quality to save a buck...only to increase their profit margin to get a bigger bonus.



Why shouldn't they. Afterall, the average American will blame it on the OVERPAID union guy having to put everything together. When the round bolt doesn't fit into the square hole, or the seat material is thin, or the holes for the suspension are not in the right place, you can not blame that on union workforce.



You blame it on the overpaid engineers, overpaid accountants, and the overpaid CEO's that push these "ideas".



Ah, hell with it. Just blame it on the union. America is too stupid to see past that part.



Lets all work for $1.00/hr. I am sure we could live off that wage. They do in China and Russia. Why can't we?



Lets get real.



Olaf, I appreciate your honesty. Like you, I feel there should be a choice. To say all union labor is "unskilled", "Lazy", and "Overpaid" is plain ignorant. Imagine if there was no chance of a union EVER to begin to organize your industry. We may think it doesn't make a difference. It actually does. As long as the chance is there, our employers will make a choice. Hope their employees are happy enough, or understands, that they are doing the best they can to pay as much as possible, or just chance it. If there is no chance that ANY union would ever repesent anyone, employers have less of an incentive to keep you happy. It will snowball down from there.



Think it will never happen?



Think again.





Tom

 

[Richard L]

Caymen,

I don't know what Toyota pays their assembly line workers, but I assure you it is not paying $25 per hour as a starting salary !!.



I agree that many large corporations are overpaying their CEOs and other so-called engineers who are not doing a very good job, and then paying them bonuses even when the company is loosing money. That's one of the laws I wish Congress or the SEC would impose. But we have discussed that before.



The problem with the unions is the high salaries, pensions and benefits they demand are driving companies either out of business or to cheaper labor overseas. The union salaries are driving up the prices of vehicles. Foreign vehicles are better engineered with better quality at lower or similar prices than American vehicles. If the US auto makes continue to compete in the same way as they have they will continue to lose sales and money and will co belly up.



US workers need to wise up too. If you don't have skills or an education you will never be out of danger. Let China and Korea make those things that do not require high priced skills...just a large cheap labor force. It's all about supply and demand.



Most progressiive manufacturers in the US are not unionized and are using more robots and automation to manufacture products of high quality. The factory worker has been replaced by skilled technicians who get excellent pay and benefits because they are in demand. Even China is looking to more automation to increase production. They are where the US was 40-50 years ago accept there government is much more restrictive and their workers have far less rights. If the only skill you have is manual labor, you will have a bleak future in tomorrow's world.



...Rich