Huckabee

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Looks like those that were biting their nails over the prospect of a "President Huckabee" can rest easy...



<A HREF="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20044329-503544.html">Signs mount that Huckabee won't enter 2012 race</A>
 
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TJR,

1. "I am supportive of religions and intolerant of religious extremists."



and



2. "I am generally supportive of and open to religions, but am intolerant to harmful religious extremists."



See how the two statements and ideals are slightly different? Sure, to the person speaking #1, they may clearly mean #2...but maybe they don't?



I said statement #1 and I meant statement #1. I never said Huckabee was a "Harmful Religious Extremist". I don't know if he is harmful....but I don't think a religious extremist as President is beneficial to the variety of religious viewpoints in America.



That's what I mean by you twisting words and adding something that was not stated or you interpret what people say to have a different meaning. People are not always that precise in their use of language as you may want them to be, but that does not mean you have to try to twist things to get a different meaning than what was said.



...Rich
 
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RichardL,



I didn't try to twist your words. I am sorry if you feel that I did. I was simply trying to say how I was interpreting them and seeing a contradiction.



Again... Sorry.



TJR
 
TJR,

Not a problem. Perhaps "Twisting words" is not the proper term. It is very hard (if not impossible) to express opinions and feelings through the written media so that everyone will understand and interpret your exact meaning.... I think we should concentrate on the general message and not so much on discecting each word and attempting to extract a separate meaning.



You are a very intelligent guy and I'm sure, for the most part you understand what most people here are saying. When you try to extract exact interpretations of words, it feels like you are trying to climb inside people's heads, and that's where I and others may feel you are going to far. This is especially true when dealing with very personal opinions or ideologies, like religion, which are hard enough to interpret when dealing with words and doctirine that is over thousands of years old. Even the expert theologeans and masters of the ancient scriptures and languages do not agree on an exact interpretation of many words or statements.



My entire point was that religious extremist tend to have very narrow and precise interpretation of words and passages in their religious doctrine which may not even be what the majority of the mainstream worshipers of their religion may not agree with.



One of the definitions of "Terrorist" is "A small group of people who attempt to force their radical ideas on the majority of people who do not agree with them".



That does not imply that religious extremist are all terrorists. Terrorist do not have to be motivated by religion...sometimes it's racist, environmentalist, Unions or even Governments.. It can also be large corporations who try to monopolize a market and force their ideas on everyone or perhaps just a tyranical boss who.





I think you get the picture.



...Rich





 
Richard L,



NP.



Regarding your definition of terrorists, wouldn't an element of "using terror" have to be part of any definition? Your definition doesn't include that, so your definition could apply to religious extremists that do not use terror as a means.



I think the use of terror (violence against the innocent, etc) has be a part of any definition of terrorists.



Regardless, I think I get your point.



TJR
 
TJR,

Regarding your definition of terrorists, wouldn't an element of "using terror" have to be part of any definition?



First, it's not my definition, but one I heard many years ago. There does not appear to be any true definition of terrorism or terrorist, since some interpretations do not employ violence. Therefore I can use Terrorism or Terrorist to reflect a small group of people who force their will and ideas on the majority of people who do not agree with them. Thus my meaning may not match yours, but I do not have to include Terror as part of my definition.



See the following definitions, or lack of a precise definition:



The definition of terrorism has proved controversial. Various legal systems and government agencies use different definitions of "terrorism". Moreover, the international community has been slow to formulate a universally agreed upon, legally binding definition of this crime. These difficulties arise from the fact that the term "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged.[1]



Angus Martyn in a briefing paper for the Australian Parliament has stated that "The international community has never succeeded in developing an accepted comprehensive definition of terrorism. During the 1970s and 1980s, the United Nations attempts to define the term foundered mainly due to differences of opinion between various members about the use of violence in the context of conflicts over national liberation and self-determination."[2] These divergences have made it impossible to conclude a Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism that incorporates a single, all-encompassing, legally binding, criminal law definition terrorism.[3]



In the meantime, the international community adopted a series of sectoral conventions that define and criminalize various types of terrorist activities. In addition, since 1994, the United Nations General Assembly has condemned terrorist acts using the following political description of terrorism: "Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them."[4]



A 2003 study by Jeffrey Record for the US Army quoted a source (Schmid and Jongman 1988) that counted 109 definitions of terrorism that covered a total of 22 different definitional elements.[5] Record continued "Terrorism expert Walter Laqueur also has counted over 100 definitions and concludes that the 'only general characteristic generally agreed upon is that terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence.' Yet terrorism is hardly the only enterprise involving violence and the threat of violence. So does war, coercive diplomacy, and bar room brawls".[6]



As Bruce Hoffman has noted: "terrorism is a pejorative term. It is a word with intrinsically negative connotations that is generally applied to one's enemies and opponents, or to those with whom one disagrees and would otherwise prefer to ignore. (...) Hence the decision to call someone or label some organization 'terrorist' becomes almost unavoidably subjective, depending largely on whether one sympathizes with or opposes the person/group/cause concerned. If one identifies with the victim of the violence, for example, then the act is terrorism. If, however, one identifies with the perpetrator, the violent act is regarded in a more sympathetic, if not positive (or, at the worst, an ambivalent) light; and it is not terrorism."[1] For this and for political reasons, many news sources (such as Reuters) avoid using this term, opting instead for less accusatory words like "bombers", "militants", etc.[7][8]



In many countries, acts of terrorism are legally distinguished from criminal acts done for other purposes.



:grin:



...Rich





 

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