Japanese Automakers sweep CR Top 10

[Dre L]

There, I beat everyone to both of those posts.



Great, first talking with those voices and to myself, and now posting to myself. Well, gotta go deliver the mail, see y'all later.

 

[David Sader]

There is at least one product that Ford manufactures that deserved to be on the top 10 list.



The Ford Focus. http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/focus/



It has a 5 year, 100, 000 mile warranty on the drive train and is a truly wonderful car to drive.

I owned a 2000 Focus ZTS, 5 speed, for three years. It handled better than my 2004 Cobra. Of course, it wasn't nearly as fast.



As soon as our Trac is paid off, we will keep it, but will get another Focus. Needless to say, the 04 Cobra stays also. We need a truck, living in the boonies, so the Trac is a keeper.



It is no accident that most of the European countries are now using the Focus as their Police Cars. They handle like an expensive sports car and are relatively quick.



For those of you who have never test driven a Focus, give it a shot. You will be pleasantly surprised. Just make sure it has the more powerful engine. It's a blast.



David <><

 

[Tom Schindler]

I test drove a Focus SVT a few weeks back. It was pretty cool. It did handle nice and the seats were very comfy.



Actually the Focus was one of the top 10 cars last year.



I think Ford would sell more Focuses if they werent so darn ugly.





Tom

 

[Deleted deleted]

I've driven rental Focuses side-by-side with Corollas, and hands down the Corolla was better built. The engine was smoother, quieter, the switchgear inside was silky smooth, the interior plastics were a notch above the Ford.



Much better fuel economy with the Corolla. I got 5mpg more in the Corolla on the highway versus the Focus.



And of course, neither is exactly a beauty contest winner, but at least the Corrolla didn't make you wince when you looked at it

 

[Tom Schindler]

the interior plastics were a notch above the Ford.

Personally, I think that statement is an opinion. I have honestly, and I mean honestly, found any Japanese plastic to actually feel like quality. I just don't feel it. I don't feel the interior feels better, looks better, smells better. I have tried it. I have sat in a Matrix, Tundra, Tacoma (both new and used as me niece and a friend has one and if that is quality plastic, I would rather walk), and even a Camry.



I just don't see it. I have driven a buddies Tacoma. Sorry, the tranny does not shift nice. It is a manual. The interior rattles and just feels cheap. It doesn't idle smooth, gets crappy gas mileage, and can barely get out of it's own way.





Tom

 

[Deleted deleted]

Caymen: Both yours and mine are just that.... opinions. I have already spent more time in the service dept with my wife's '06 Escape than I've spent in 2.5 years with my '03 Matrix.



That's not an opinion... that's just fact.



That means a lot to me.

 

[Michael Cacioppo]

Darin, the VIBE and MATRIX are identical mechanically. You'll hear accolades on the Matrix but not on the Vibe. Another case of perception trumping reality.

 

[Deleted deleted]

MikeC: I considered the Vibe when I was shopping, but ended up buying the Matrix as I knew come trade-in time, the Matrix would be worth more. Purchase price wasn't an issue, as both vehicles were within $200 of each other.



So yes, when it comes to trade in value, perception can mean more $$.



However, there is no perception when it comes to time a vehicle spends in dealer service. My 2 Fords ('06 Escape, '97 Explorer) have spent plenty of time in service lately. Good thing my car is a Toyota and doesn't require that kind of attention.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yeah, but they are all crap. I never see any of these imports around me, at least none over a few years old. Japanese imports are a fad. They won't catch on. Only those in the metro areas of blue states buy them. Besides, this is a Consumer Reports survey and they are biased by their advertisers and by the yuppies they poll.



(hint, I am being sarcastic)

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Darin,



I agree with you on Toyota quality. The Ford vehicles may have thicker steel and heavier frames, but Toyotas are mechanically simpler and more reliable. You just have to look under the hoods to see how efficient the design is. US vehicles are crammed full under the hood with barely enough room to even do routine maintenance (spark plugs on our STs are a good example). Look at a Toyota, and there are half as many wires and hoses, and the spark plugs are easily accessible -- right in front of the motor in many cases.

2004 Ford F-150

2004 Toyota Tundra

 

[Michael Cacioppo]

I had a 1998 Oldsmobile intrique with a 3.8L tried and true V6. The car had absolutely no problems and ran great with about 26 on the hwy. Consumers report evaluated it against Japanese imports. Although the rated it higher in its class over the competition, they couldn't recommend it because the 3.8 was an old design engine, and although reliable was not up to date. I now have a 2001 Oldsmobile intrigue, same car different engine. It has a modern 3.5 liter V6 that is very responsive with hwy mileage up at 27 MPG. Consumers couldn't give this a thumbs up because the engine was too new and didn't have a track record. If you look at there "shoot outs" the Japanese rate higher is cataegories that are nebulous like overall feel, etc. These categories outrank the American counter parts and put them over the total points to become the winner. I've driven the competition and I'm not impressed. The Cadillac CTS handles as good, if not better, than it's competition. But you can be sure that CU will not rank it above them.



You may complain about the repair record of American cars, but checkout the cost of NORMAL maintenace and repairs of the competition. You think $2k is high for a tranny? Try a BMW or Lexus tranny out for pricing.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

If I could afford to OWN a BMW or Lexus I'd have money to PAY for those expensive repairs. Since I don't make a bunch of money working for the gov't, I bought something that was touted as being dependable and "Ford Tough". Since a Ford is not a luxury auto, I expect to pay low prices for repairs.



I've owned two Toyotas, and between the two of them I put on 185,000 miles. I only replaced the brakes and radiator after owning the 91 Corolla for nine years (100K miles). I traded the Echo after two years and 85K miles, because I needed a truck to do weekend projects. I didn't have anything break on the Echo, but it was one ugly car. I do miss getting 42 mpg though.



The big complaint that I have with American vehicles is that they nickel and dime you to death with little repairs, like leaking headlamp lenses, loose trim pieces, failed switches, etc. Then comes a big repair like the tranny, and all of a sudden you start to wonder if you need something more dependable to take that summer trip to the Grand Canyon.



I love my truck, but there are days when I just kick myself for not buying a Toyota.

 

[Jenn D]

Amen Nelson. I completely agree.

 

[Richard L]

I have always had far less problems with all the American built cars I've had then I had with the Japanese car or the Germany car I had.



The Honda has a reputation of bein one of the most reliable vehicles on the road, but I had more problems with that car than I did with any other vehicle. But I still feel that my 1990 Honda is a great car. It has over 160K miles on it and I still own it. It's broke now, but I still think it's worth fixing when I get around to it.



I think that Honda and Toyota have very good reputations for reliability because of the service you get at their dealerships. I don't hear about Honda dealers denying their customers warranty service, Or the customer repeatedly taking their vehicle back to the Honda or Toyota dealer to have the same thing fixed over and over again.



I have never had the Honda Service Manager tell me a bunch of crap or give me all kinds of excuses for their incompetency. This same Service Manager moved from the Honda dealer to the local Pontiac dealership, and then he started telling me lies. I had a lot of problems with the power windows on my 1997 Grand Prix. The last time I had to have the power windows fixed was after the warranty had expired. The Service Manager approved fixing it at no charge to me, however he stood in front of me and said that he was not aware of any problems with the 1997 GP power windows. I know that was wrong because the GP owners web site indicated that a lot of people had similar problems and even his Senior Service Advisor (who worked with him at Honda) said that they have had a lot of problems with the power windows and the Service Manager was well aware of it!



My point is that most of the higher quality and reliablity ratings enjoyed by Honda and Toyota are perceptions the customer has due to the dealers doing a better job of customer relations and better training of ther Service department personnel.



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

I don't think I could sleep at night knowing I bought a Toyota.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen says:

I don't think I could sleep at night knowing I bought a Toyota.

Why is that, Tom?

 

[Tom Schindler]

If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

TJR,



Consumer Reports doesn't accept money from any advertisers, so there isn't a way for them to be biased in that way. I do however think whoever comes up with their grading criteria is on crack.



I once wrote to them about their ratings on a car I owned (an 87 Chevy Spectrum). I put over 100K trouble-free miles on that car, but their ratings listed it as "not recommended" as a used car. At 100K my Spectrum looked new still, and I had done all recommended service. Many others I saw in town looked like junk. I suggested that they use this question in their surveys as question #1:

Have you you performed recommended service on this vehicle as specified in the owners manual?

I suggested to them that if the answer to this question was "No", that the survey should be discarded, since no vehicle can be expected to be reliable without proper maintenance. I never heard from them again, and I canceled my subscription a month later.

 

[Fer Echegaray]

I was mainly a VW consumer, several vehicles from the old beetle to Jettas and Golfs, and never had a problem with them, except for a problem with the A/C on the last Jetta we had.



Only had 2 Japanese cars, well, one Japanese car (Del Sol) and a CBR600F2 (both Hondas), and not a problem.



Chevy Malibu eightysomething, no problem but engine was hotter than I would expect and that transpired to the front passengers.



Mercury Cougar, '85 IIRC, only problem was a leaking brake line.



Chrysler New Yorker, '85, no problem until the tranny started to act up, but I suspect that was bad maintenance.



Ford Focus zx3 '00, still in the family, NO problems whatsoever.



ST '02, minor issues, couldn't be happier... well, if the shocks were different... but I'm very happy with it.



I still think it's a matter of perception, good marketing will sell anything.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Nelson,



Very good point.



Another possibility is this. Someone who buys a Ford, lets say it is because they got a better deal on the Ford, has already decided that it is junk so they don't care what happens to it.



They drive the Ford and runs it 70,000 trouble free miles. Change the oil whenever they feel like it, drive the heck out of it, never flush the radiator, or any other PM most people do.



All of a sudden, at 71,000 miles, the timing belt breaks and they destroy the head and valves causing expensive damage. "I knew I should have spent the money on an import".



That same person then buys a Toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc. They "know" it is a good car and know if they take care of it, it will take care of them. So the owner changes the oil every 3,000 miles, flushes the radiator, drives like Grandma and other PM.



70,000 miles of trouble free miles. At 71,000 miles, the timing belt breaks causing major and expensive damage. "How stupic could I have been? The timing belt should have been replaced at 50,000 miles, but I didn't do it. My fault. Gosh do I love my import!! The only problem I ever had was caused by me."





Tom